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WRU move to kill off Ospreys

Former Former

Here's the story.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/scarlets-ospreys-set-merge-major-15921430

Pretty massive stuff. The Scarlets were supposed to be big enough to survive as a single entity, it's a real shame it's (apparently) come to this.

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CatFromHue

stop moaning about people moaning molloyjh

thomond2006

awec wrote: »

The Pro14 should absolutely refuse to allow them to adopt this 2+2 nonsense. They should not be allowed to enter their 2 glorified A teams into a league that is already overflowing with sub standard teams.

Again, more hyperbole.

Overflowing: How many teams are included within this grouping? I look at the tables and I only see three teams that are completely off the pace (Zebre, Kings and Dragons). Is 3 out of 14 overflowing?

molloyjh

I have to be honest, I’m getting really sick of listening to people bitch and moan about the league and then go on to bitch and moan about every attempt to improve it, all the while never proposing solutions themselves. The situation in Wales was completely unsustainable, so what else where they supposed to do!? Do any of those people complaining have any ideas at all, or do they just want to crap all over everything?

And people talk about Welsh moaning!?

stephen_n

awec wrote: »

This is completely different. The Ospreys were a brand new team, at a new level for the sport.

What is happening now is expecting Ospreys to start supporting a team that quite literally have been their rivals for 16 years.

It's like expecting Leinster fans to start supporting Munster, with Munster fans accepting the team being renamed to the Munster Blues.

Munster are already trying to absorb Leinster, one player at a time. Leinster B or Munster Blues take your pick

Tigerandahalf

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The talk of Ospreys and Scarlets being both in favour of and behind idea of the merger doesn't really tally comments of the outgoing Ospreys chairman.

I'd say the Chairman had no choice. Ospreys were running out of cash. The Ospreys were represented on the PR board so they would have known this was coming down the track.

It is interesting that the Dragons were taken into union ownership only last year. Perhaps they realised the game was up for them.

All you can hope is that the new teams are backed. Otherwise Welsh club rugby and the pro14 could be in a right mess in a couple of years.

troyzer

awec wrote: »

The Pro14 should absolutely refuse to allow them to adopt this 2+2 nonsense. They should not be allowed to enter their 2 glorified A teams into a league that is already overflowing with sub standard teams.

Yeah, it's bad enough with sub standard Leinster A teams like Ulster and Connacht.

awec

The Pro14 should absolutely refuse to allow them to adopt this 2+2 nonsense. They should not be allowed to enter their 2 glorified A teams into a league that is already overflowing with sub standard teams.

Cookiemunster

Eod100 wrote: »

Bit of an explainer here on merger for anyone interested:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/scarlets-ospreys-merger-everything-you-15924170

The talk of Ospreys and Scarlets being both in favour of and behind idea of the merger doesn't really tally comments of the outgoing Ospreys chairman.

Eod100

Bit of an explainer here on merger for anyone interested:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/scarlets-ospreys-merger-everything-you-15924170

KrustyUCC

Ospreys chairman resigns over WRU's 'catastrophic mismanagement' as Owens voices deep concern

Ken Owens described Welsh rugby’s proposed restructure as ‘the most challenging situation that arguably any player has faced’ during their careers.

https://www.the42.ie/ospreys-scarlets-4524780-Mar2019/

CatFromHue

the league doesn't need another **** team, which is what any new region will be for a few years.

awec

CatFromHue wrote: »

A Pro13 is difficult logistically.

If they keep two conferences then one conferences will end up playing 2 games less.

If they go back to one table then you end up with 24 games to play if they go home and away format, which is too many.

So I dunno!

Think Wales are contractually obliged to provide 4 teams.

awec

Another example that shows this is not just the usual Welsh moaning is the proposed Racing and Stade merger that was killed of when they realised fans weren't having it.

Eod100

CatFromHue wrote: »

A Pro13 is difficult logistically.

If they keep two conferences then one conferences will end up playing 2 games less.

If they go back to one table then you end up with 24 games to play if they go home and away format, which is too many.

So I dunno!

Will still be 4 regions won't it Scarlets/Ospreys team, Blues, Dragons and new region? So still 2 conferences of 7 afaik. Gets a bit messy deciding which conference to put new region in though.

Tigerandahalf

awec wrote: »

Don't think it'll be that simple.

Think they'll lose a lot of players out of the welsh system.

That could happen. If the Ospreys are finished contracts would be null and void unless the union want to honour them. Presumably guys on short deals will look for the best offer in England if they can get it.

The better players will be looked after but some of them may prefer to head elsewhere. Though some of the top guys are on union backed contracts so they may have to row in with the Scarlets.

CatFromHue

A Pro13 is difficult logistically.

If they keep two conferences then one conferences will end up playing 2 games less.

If they go back to one table then you end up with 24 games to play if they go home and away format, which is too many.

So I dunno!

awec

AdamD wrote: »

I imagine we're looking at a big reshuffle and a lot of these will simply join the new region? Others might join the other 2 regions in the merry go round.

Don't think it'll be that simple.

Think they'll lose a lot of players out of the welsh system.

errlloyd

Eod100 wrote: »

Maybe but then is new region just a Scarlet/Ospreys hybrid B team? I honestly don't know.

Was reading that WRU operate Dragons. Are there any other reasons why they're not the ones being disbanded? Because if it was based on potential and past record you'd think they'd be in line for the chop

They own Rodney Parade, so in reality they're in a much better position to one day be a successful club than Ospreys.

Eod100

AdamD wrote: »

I imagine we're looking at a big reshuffle and a lot of these will simply join the new region? Others might join the other 2 regions in the merry go round.

Maybe but then is new region just a Scarlet/Ospreys hybrid B team? I honestly don't know.

Was reading that WRU operate Dragons. Are there any other reasons why they're not the ones being disbanded? Because if it was based on potential and past record you'd think they'd be in line for the chop

[Deleted User]

Eod100 wrote: »

Don't know the ins and outs tbh but guess with any mergers people losing their jobs are inevitable so maybe he was going to have to resign either way. Feel for players in staff. Would imagine both regions can't maintain the same squad size, so not sure how they will whittle that down.

I imagine we're looking at a big reshuffle and a lot of these will simply join the new region? Others might join the other 2 regions in the merry go round.

Eod100

Clegg wrote: »

Ospreys actually need this merger to happen iirc. A few weeks ago there were stories about the region barely having enough money to last the season. Project Reset is a very good time and reason for the chairman of a skint region to resign. Takes some heat off questions why they've no money.

Don't know the ins and outs tbh but guess with any mergers people losing their jobs are inevitable so maybe he was going to have to resign either way. Feel for players in staff. Would imagine both regions can't maintain the same squad size, so not sure how they will whittle that down.

awec

Clegg wrote: »

Ospreys actually need this merger to happen iirc. A few weeks ago there were stories about the region barely having enough money to last the season. Project Reset is a very good time and reason for the chairman of a skint region to resign. Takes some heat off questions why they've no money.

It's not really a merger. Ospreys are being canned.

Clegg

Eod100 wrote: »

Ospreys chairman has resigned over "catastrophic mismanagement" of Project Reset. This probably needs its own thread at this stage!

https://twitter.com/ospreys/status/1102927710190477312

Ospreys actually need this merger to happen iirc. A few weeks ago there were stories about the region barely having enough money to last the season. Project Reset is a very good time and reason for the chairman of a skint region to resign. Takes some heat off questions why they've no money.

Jump_In_Jack

Zzippy wrote: »

If they don't call the new team the Oscars I will be sorely disappointed in their marketing team...

How about The Scareys

awec

Zzippy wrote: »

I wasn't commenting on moaning Welsh fans, although following Welsh rugby twitterati certainly would give that impression. I certainly wouldn't have supported a merged team, and I actually can't understand how more people in Wales aren't in absolute uproar over this.

BTW, this article fleshes out the IRFU move to disband Connacht a bit more. A formal decision to wind up the pro team may not have been taken, but it was certainly a long way past a point in a presentation and without the protests, and would certainly have been taken without any objections from the other provinces on the relevant committee.

I think uproar is pretty much the standard response to it.

Eod100

Ospreys chairman has resigned over "catastrophic mismanagement" of Project Reset. This probably needs its own thread at this stage!

https://twitter.com/ospreys/status/1102927710190477312

Zzippy

Former Former wrote: »

No decision to disband Connacht was ever made. It was one of a number of proposals that some report made but the leaks and protests meant it never actually came up for decision.

Llanelli have a history that includes beating New Zealand and Australia in the amateur era. In the pro era, they've won the Celtic league twice but also came agonizingly close to the Heineken Cup final a couple of times in the noughties. They have been far more successful than Connacht.

I'm just trying to put a bit of perspective on it. I see people making jibes about the moaning Welsh fans and I wonder what planet they're on, we actually took to the streets when something similar was planned.

Would you have got behind the Munster-Connacht Fresians if it had come to pass?

I wasn't commenting on moaning Welsh fans, although following Welsh rugby twitterati certainly would give that impression. I certainly wouldn't have supported a merged team, and I actually can't understand how more people in Wales aren't in absolute uproar over this.

BTW, this article fleshes out the IRFU move to disband Connacht a bit more. A formal decision to wind up the pro team may not have been taken, but it was certainly a long way past a point in a presentation and without the protests, and would certainly have been taken without any objections from the other provinces on the relevant committee.

Former Former

Zzippy wrote: »

I wasn't involved at the time, but I recall the move to disband Connacht was a lot more than an idea mooted in a presentation. The decision had actually been made by all accounts.

Also, Scarlets have won two Pro14/Celtic titles. Connacht have won one. Technically that makes them twice as successful. Connacht was formed in 1885. Llanelli had a 10 year headstart. Hardly 50 times more history and heritage.

If anything, the success of Connacht since 2003 shows that disbanding a team is possibly the worst way WRU could go about saving money.

No decision to disband Connacht was ever made. It was one of a number of proposals that some report made but the leaks and protests meant it never actually came up for decision.

Llanelli have a history that includes beating New Zealand and Australia in the amateur era. In the pro era, they've won the Celtic league twice but also came agonizingly close to the Heineken Cup final a couple of times in the noughties. They have been far more successful than Connacht.

I'm just trying to put a bit of perspective on it. I see people making jibes about the moaning Welsh fans and I wonder what planet they're on, we actually took to the streets when something similar was planned.

Would you have got behind the Munster-Connacht Fresians if it had come to pass?

Eod100

Digifriendly wrote: »

Radio Ulster reporting that Scarlets/Ospreys merger is virtually a done deal with Pro 14 matches to be staged at Parc Y Scarlets and CC matches at Liberty Stadium. One aim is to improve Welsh regions chances in Europe. This merger surely helps Connacht in their conference re qualifying for Europe and I presume if Scarlets don't qualify via league placing or play off then place still there via merged region. Have I got this right?

Think it gets messy with this. Also does the new Welsh region automatically enter Pro14 and get a Challenge Cup place?

Not sure how it's going to work for giving them a ranking in Pro14 to be assigned a specific conference next season. Or seeding for the Challenge Cup draw, unless they're given worst seeding? Do they hope to have team made by time Challenge Cup draw in June comes around?

Digifriendly

Radio Ulster reporting that Scarlets/Ospreys merger is virtually a done deal with Pro 14 matches to be staged at Parc Y Scarlets and CC matches at Liberty Stadium. One aim is to improve Welsh regions chances in Europe. This merger surely helps Connacht in their conference re qualifying for Europe and I presume if Scarlets don't qualify via league placing or play off then place still there via merged region. Have I got this right?