WRU move to kill off Ospreys

thomond2006

Can we stay on track?














I'm here all week.

molloyjh

There’s a lot of negativity here on this with some of the usual suspects crying out about end days for the league. Doom they say. DOOOOOM!

However it might be worth taking a step back before decrying this as the end of the league. Ospreys have been dying a slow death for years with no sign of that reversing. They are falling away badly and look set to ultimately become another Dragons. Scarlets have had a handful of good seasons, but having lost a couple of good players have really struggled this season. With 4 games to go in the regular season there isn’t a single Welsh team in the play-off spots and only 1 Welsh team will make the HEC.

This move will do 2 important things. First it will create a team with the best of the Scarlets and the Ospreys. That should create a very competitive Welsh team both in the league and in Europe, which we should all be pleased about. The remaining players will likely help bolster the Cardiff and Dragons squads. Cardiff have consistently been a team that’s been on the verge of being a very decent team. The additional resources this could provide could give them a bit of a boost. That means we should have 1 very good and 1 very decent Welsh team in the league. Which is better than what we have at the moment.

The team in the north has been in the running for a couple of years. Apparently there is an appetite for that up there. There is already a northern based side that started at the bottom of the pile in Welsh club rugby and in just a few years went on to win the Premiership. They will certainly start off like the Dragons, but they’ve already shown an ability to develop and succeed.

Welsh rugby as it stands is a mess and doing nothing will doom it to further mediocrity. And that sure as hell won’t help the league. Any fix they try and implement will take time. This has the obvious short term benefit of creating a strong region while giving the others a helping hand. And instead of pouring more money down the drain of the existing regions, it’s giving a new side a shot that has already proven it can step up at lower levels.

awec

I think people are not getting just how much resentment this will cause among Welsh fans.

Taking Ospreys and Scarlets and mashing them together does not mean you're going to end up with a strong team, or end up with a well supported side.

The Dragons are a total joke, but only survive because the WRU are the majority owner. The Blues are a team that nobody cares about.

Ospreys and Scarlets are the only Welsh regions with a brand worth talking about. They are the only Welsh sides that have ever contributed anything to the Pro14. Both are about to get screwed.

Buer

awec wrote: »

Taking Ospreys and Scarlets and mashing them together does not mean you're going to end up with a strong team, or end up with a well supported side.

It worked for Ulster and Leinster B.

Squidgy Black

awec wrote: »

I think people are not getting just how much resentment this will cause among Welsh fans.

Taking Ospreys and Scarlets and mashing them together does not mean you're going to end up with a strong team, or end up with a well supported side.

The Dragons are a total joke, but only survive because the WRU are the majority owner.

Welsh people having resentment over something? Well I never.

awec

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Welsh people having resentment over something? Well I never.

I know people like to throw out these soundbites about the Welsh and their apparent moaning, but if the IRFU ever merged two provinces do you think the reaction here would be any different?

Zzippy

If they don't call the new team the Oscars I will be sorely disappointed in their marketing team...

Former Former

awec wrote: »

I think people are not getting just how much resentment this will cause among Welsh fans.

In 2002, an accountant said that IRFU could save a heap of money by closing Connacht. It was never anything more than a bullet point on a presentation but it led to a march on IRFU headquarters.

Llanelli is a club with fifty times more history and heritage than Connacht ever had and they've been far more successful as a pro entity. Now we should be taking a cold-eyed view on it and just throw up the shutters?

People aren't going to just jump on board with whatever comes along next. Saying the Llanelli fans will just head down the road to Swansea or vice versa is like saying the Connacht fans would have just gone to Limerick.

I appreciate that something had to change. This may well be the best plan but that doesn't mean it's a good plan.

thomond2006

awec wrote: »

The Blues are a team that nobody cares about.

Even excluding the Judgement Day game outlier, Cardiff had a higher average attendance in the Pro14 2017/18 than Connacht. You aren't going to say nobody cares about Connacht.

Zzippy

Former Former wrote: »

In 2002, an accountant said that IRFU could save a heap of money by closing Connacht. It was never anything more than a bullet point on a presentation but it led to a march on IRFU headquarters.

Llanelli is a club with fifty times more history and heritage than Connacht ever had and they've been far more successful as a pro entity. Now we should be taking a cold-eyed view on it and just throw up the shutters?

People aren't going to just jump on board with whatever comes along next. Saying the Llanelli fans will just head down the road to Swansea or vice versa is like saying the Connacht fans would have just gone to Limerick.

I appreciate that something had to change. This may well be the best plan but that doesn't mean it's a good plan.

I wasn't involved at the time, but I recall the move to disband Connacht was a lot more than an idea mooted in a presentation. The decision had actually been made by all accounts.

Also, Scarlets have won two Pro14/Celtic titles. Connacht have won one. Technically that makes them twice as successful. Connacht was formed in 1885. Llanelli had a 10 year headstart. Hardly 50 times more history and heritage.

If anything, the success of Connacht since 2003 shows that disbanding a team is possibly the worst way WRU could go about saving money.

Digifriendly

Radio Ulster reporting that Scarlets/Ospreys merger is virtually a done deal with Pro 14 matches to be staged at Parc Y Scarlets and CC matches at Liberty Stadium. One aim is to improve Welsh regions chances in Europe. This merger surely helps Connacht in their conference re qualifying for Europe and I presume if Scarlets don't qualify via league placing or play off then place still there via merged region. Have I got this right?

Eod100

Digifriendly wrote: »

Radio Ulster reporting that Scarlets/Ospreys merger is virtually a done deal with Pro 14 matches to be staged at Parc Y Scarlets and CC matches at Liberty Stadium. One aim is to improve Welsh regions chances in Europe. This merger surely helps Connacht in their conference re qualifying for Europe and I presume if Scarlets don't qualify via league placing or play off then place still there via merged region. Have I got this right?

Think it gets messy with this. Also does the new Welsh region automatically enter Pro14 and get a Challenge Cup place?

Not sure how it's going to work for giving them a ranking in Pro14 to be assigned a specific conference next season. Or seeding for the Challenge Cup draw, unless they're given worst seeding? Do they hope to have team made by time Challenge Cup draw in June comes around?

Former Former

Zzippy wrote: »

I wasn't involved at the time, but I recall the move to disband Connacht was a lot more than an idea mooted in a presentation. The decision had actually been made by all accounts.

Also, Scarlets have won two Pro14/Celtic titles. Connacht have won one. Technically that makes them twice as successful. Connacht was formed in 1885. Llanelli had a 10 year headstart. Hardly 50 times more history and heritage.

If anything, the success of Connacht since 2003 shows that disbanding a team is possibly the worst way WRU could go about saving money.

No decision to disband Connacht was ever made. It was one of a number of proposals that some report made but the leaks and protests meant it never actually came up for decision.

Llanelli have a history that includes beating New Zealand and Australia in the amateur era. In the pro era, they've won the Celtic league twice but also came agonizingly close to the Heineken Cup final a couple of times in the noughties. They have been far more successful than Connacht.

I'm just trying to put a bit of perspective on it. I see people making jibes about the moaning Welsh fans and I wonder what planet they're on, we actually took to the streets when something similar was planned.

Would you have got behind the Munster-Connacht Fresians if it had come to pass?

Zzippy

Former Former wrote: »

No decision to disband Connacht was ever made. It was one of a number of proposals that some report made but the leaks and protests meant it never actually came up for decision.

Llanelli have a history that includes beating New Zealand and Australia in the amateur era. In the pro era, they've won the Celtic league twice but also came agonizingly close to the Heineken Cup final a couple of times in the noughties. They have been far more successful than Connacht.

I'm just trying to put a bit of perspective on it. I see people making jibes about the moaning Welsh fans and I wonder what planet they're on, we actually took to the streets when something similar was planned.

Would you have got behind the Munster-Connacht Fresians if it had come to pass?

I wasn't commenting on moaning Welsh fans, although following Welsh rugby twitterati certainly would give that impression. I certainly wouldn't have supported a merged team, and I actually can't understand how more people in Wales aren't in absolute uproar over this.

BTW, this article fleshes out the IRFU move to disband Connacht a bit more. A formal decision to wind up the pro team may not have been taken, but it was certainly a long way past a point in a presentation and without the protests, and would certainly have been taken without any objections from the other provinces on the relevant committee.

Eod100

Ospreys chairman has resigned over "catastrophic mismanagement" of Project Reset. This probably needs its own thread at this stage!

https://twitter.com/ospreys/status/1102927710190477312

awec

Zzippy wrote: »

I wasn't commenting on moaning Welsh fans, although following Welsh rugby twitterati certainly would give that impression. I certainly wouldn't have supported a merged team, and I actually can't understand how more people in Wales aren't in absolute uproar over this.

BTW, this article fleshes out the IRFU move to disband Connacht a bit more. A formal decision to wind up the pro team may not have been taken, but it was certainly a long way past a point in a presentation and without the protests, and would certainly have been taken without any objections from the other provinces on the relevant committee.

I think uproar is pretty much the standard response to it.

Jump_In_Jack

Zzippy wrote: »

If they don't call the new team the Oscars I will be sorely disappointed in their marketing team...

How about The Scareys

Clegg

Eod100 wrote: »

Ospreys chairman has resigned over "catastrophic mismanagement" of Project Reset. This probably needs its own thread at this stage!

https://twitter.com/ospreys/status/1102927710190477312

Ospreys actually need this merger to happen iirc. A few weeks ago there were stories about the region barely having enough money to last the season. Project Reset is a very good time and reason for the chairman of a skint region to resign. Takes some heat off questions why they've no money.

awec

Clegg wrote: »

Ospreys actually need this merger to happen iirc. A few weeks ago there were stories about the region barely having enough money to last the season. Project Reset is a very good time and reason for the chairman of a skint region to resign. Takes some heat off questions why they've no money.

It's not really a merger. Ospreys are being canned.

Eod100

Clegg wrote: »

Ospreys actually need this merger to happen iirc. A few weeks ago there were stories about the region barely having enough money to last the season. Project Reset is a very good time and reason for the chairman of a skint region to resign. Takes some heat off questions why they've no money.

Don't know the ins and outs tbh but guess with any mergers people losing their jobs are inevitable so maybe he was going to have to resign either way. Feel for players in staff. Would imagine both regions can't maintain the same squad size, so not sure how they will whittle that down.

Eod100

Eod100 wrote: »

Don't know the ins and outs tbh but guess with any mergers people losing their jobs are inevitable so maybe he was going to have to resign either way. Feel for players in staff. Would imagine both regions can't maintain the same squad size, so not sure how they will whittle that down.

I imagine we're looking at a big reshuffle and a lot of these will simply join the new region? Others might join the other 2 regions in the merry go round.

Eod100

AdamD wrote: »

I imagine we're looking at a big reshuffle and a lot of these will simply join the new region? Others might join the other 2 regions in the merry go round.

Maybe but then is new region just a Scarlet/Ospreys hybrid B team? I honestly don't know.

Was reading that WRU operate Dragons. Are there any other reasons why they're not the ones being disbanded? Because if it was based on potential and past record you'd think they'd be in line for the chop

errlloyd

Eod100 wrote: »

Maybe but then is new region just a Scarlet/Ospreys hybrid B team? I honestly don't know.

Was reading that WRU operate Dragons. Are there any other reasons why they're not the ones being disbanded? Because if it was based on potential and past record you'd think they'd be in line for the chop

They own Rodney Parade, so in reality they're in a much better position to one day be a successful club than Ospreys.

awec

AdamD wrote: »

I imagine we're looking at a big reshuffle and a lot of these will simply join the new region? Others might join the other 2 regions in the merry go round.

Don't think it'll be that simple.

Think they'll lose a lot of players out of the welsh system.

CatFromHue

A Pro13 is difficult logistically.

If they keep two conferences then one conferences will end up playing 2 games less.

If they go back to one table then you end up with 24 games to play if they go home and away format, which is too many.

So I dunno!

Tigerandahalf

awec wrote: »

Don't think it'll be that simple.

Think they'll lose a lot of players out of the welsh system.

That could happen. If the Ospreys are finished contracts would be null and void unless the union want to honour them. Presumably guys on short deals will look for the best offer in England if they can get it.

The better players will be looked after but some of them may prefer to head elsewhere. Though some of the top guys are on union backed contracts so they may have to row in with the Scarlets.

Eod100

CatFromHue wrote: »

A Pro13 is difficult logistically.

If they keep two conferences then one conferences will end up playing 2 games less.

If they go back to one table then you end up with 24 games to play if they go home and away format, which is too many.

So I dunno!

Will still be 4 regions won't it Scarlets/Ospreys team, Blues, Dragons and new region? So still 2 conferences of 7 afaik. Gets a bit messy deciding which conference to put new region in though.

awec

Another example that shows this is not just the usual Welsh moaning is the proposed Racing and Stade merger that was killed of when they realised fans weren't having it.

awec

CatFromHue wrote: »

A Pro13 is difficult logistically.

If they keep two conferences then one conferences will end up playing 2 games less.

If they go back to one table then you end up with 24 games to play if they go home and away format, which is too many.

So I dunno!

Think Wales are contractually obliged to provide 4 teams.

CatFromHue

the league doesn't need another **** team, which is what any new region will be for a few years.