Abortion Discussion, Part the Fourth

robindch

Madalynn Scary Kangaroo wrote: »

Your posts remind me of an interview I saw with 2 flat earthers. One of them had a very similar technique to you. He wouldn't say "the earth is flat because X" or "you're wrong because Y", he would just attempt to appear genuine while obfuscating the entire discussion by repeatedly asking for proof or further explanations of absolute basics.

Why do you need examples of #45's repulsive behaviour? Have you really never seen any before? Or are you derailing the conversation?

KidChameleon's post could accurately be described as sea-lioning, an online tactic as you've described - interrupting the usual flow of discussion by asking other posters to supply things which are common knowledge. Sea-lioning blocks discussion instead of bringing it forward, and as such, does not meet the forum charter's requirement for posters to contribute to a smoothly-flowing discussion. Repeated instances of sea-lioning, as judged by the forum moderators, will result in the poster concerned being moderated.

splinter65

splinter65 wrote: »

If the people who dislike him so much would just dislike him enough to get out and vote, and if there was a Democratic candidate they admired enough to get out and vote for then things would be different.
As it is Trump is their democratically elected leader and, unless something very dramatic happens in the next 17 months, he will be returned again at the next time out.

It's possible that he won't considering he didn't have the popular vote the last time.

Hotblack Desiato

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I neither like nor dislike Trump.

Okay...

I think he has done a good job.

Right. Didn't just inherit the Obama economy, then? He's bumbling his way from one fk-up to the next.

Most, if not all of the hate towards him is misplaced by gullible sheep who watch the mainstream media.

And you know this is misplaced, because...?

I'm pretty sure any examples given of his "repulsive behavior" that you provide can be easily debunked.

Including the examples of his own behaviour in public and on his own twitter account?


Your first sentence is not looking at all convincing by this stage.

Hotblack Desiato

splinter65 wrote: »

If the people who dislike him so much would just dislike him enough to get out and vote

You seem to have forgotten that more people voted against him than for him last time out.

Cabaal

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

You seem to have forgotten that more people voted against him than for him last time out.

Damn facts getting in the way....

Kidchameleon

robindch wrote: »

Well, just about any one of his vile tweets will give you what you're looking for. If you're looking for one specific example though, then I suppose that time he boasted about "grabbing women by the pussy" would probably meet most people's definition of "vile character and repulsive carry-on". I do concede, though, that since you're asking for examples, that it could be the case that you've forgotten that #45 boasted about sexually assaulting women (suggesting that you have a poor memory), or perhaps that you believe that it's ok to sexual assault women (suggesting that you have a vile character similar to #45's), or you could be just trolling the forum - please feel free to clarify.

Jonathan Pie mentions a few more examples here if you're running short:

No I remember that recording. In fact, I predicted it would be one of the examples you would give. He clearly said "and they let you" after the pussy part but the mainstream never let the clip play fully. Ill get you a link later if you want (on mobile at the moment). So I know you are being influenced by the mainstream, you are what is known as an "npc". And that is not an attack by the way, it is a respectful observation. As you said & myself, Trump is not the topic here so I am not going to discuss it further. Judt remember, you are saying I am talking about trump but yourself amd other posters are just as much. It was YOU who made the discussion about him by using the "#45" term.

Hitch2222

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No I remember that recording. In fact, I predicted it would be one of the examples you would give. He clearly said "and they let you" after the pussy part but the mainstream never let the clip play fully. Ill get you a link later if you want (on mobile at the moment). So I know you are being influenced by the mainstream, you are what is known as an "npc". And that is not an attack by the way, it is a respectful observation. As you said & myself, Trump is not the topic here so I am not going to discuss it further. Judt remember, you are saying I am talking about trump but yourself amd other posters are just as much. It was YOU who made the discussion about him by using the "#45" term.

Here's a synopsis of various positions Trump has taken himself and in response to questions posed to him simply on the question of Islam.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/03/15/short-history-president-trumps-anti-muslim-bigotry/

nozzferrahhtoo

Kidchameleon wrote: »

The Earth is spherical by the way.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Technically the Earth is a geoid.

smacl wrote: »

Conceptually, as a single solid geometric object it is easier to think of the planet as an oblate ellipsoid

I came to this forum many years ago for the atheism.

I stayed all this time for the sweet sweet pedantry

Igotadose

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No I remember that recording. In fact, I predicted it would be one of the examples you would give.

Did you? Funny, even Nostradamus wrote down his predictions. Didn't see yours in this case.

7aubzxk43m2sni

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No I remember that recording. In fact, I predicted it would be one of the examples you would give. He clearly said "and they let you" after the pussy part but the mainstream never let the clip play fully. Ill get you a link later if you want (on mobile at the moment). So I know you are being influenced by the mainstream, you are what is known as an "npc". And that is not an attack by the way, it is a respectful observation. As you said & myself, Trump is not the topic here so I am not going to discuss it further. Judt remember, you are saying I am talking about trump but yourself amd other posters are just as much. It was YOU who made the discussion about him by using the "#45" term.

Hold on.

Are you saying that it wasn't vulgar or repulsive, because he said "and they let you" at the end?

Bannasidhe

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Mandate? More people voted for his opponent than him.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Yes, in every sense of the word, he has a mandate, democratically given to him by his people. That's all I will say on that as it is off topic.

splinter65 wrote: »

Trump will more then likely be #46 though. PP has him the evens fav.

splinter65 wrote: »

That’s interesting. I didn’t realize that he would stay #45 till 2024. This referring to the president by his position in the sequence is quite new I think. It’s not applicable to any other head of state. How did it start?

robindch wrote: »

It's been around for a few presidents at least, but given #45's vile character and repulsive carry-on, many people seem to prefer not to refer to him by name, but by number instead.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I neither like nor dislike Trump. I think he has done a good job. Most, if not all of the hate towards him is misplaced by gullible sheep who watch the mainstream media. I'm pretty sure any examples given of his "repulsive behavior" that you provide can be easily debunked. You are right, it is off topic but I was not the person who referred to the president as "#45" in the first instance. The Earth is spherical by the way.

uptherebels wrote: »

Mainstream media? People don't need to watch mainstream media, trump personally provides all the evidence needed.

splinter65 wrote: »

“many people” is just not going to swing it. If he’s still alive next Nov he’ll be easily re elected firstly because of the shockingly poor alternatives currently being proposed and secondly because lots of very ordinary Americans think he’s superb.

DubInMeath wrote: »

Alternatives maybe, ordinary Americans thinking he's superb no.

Cabaal wrote: »

But not the majority.
As such more people dislike him then like him.

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Who cares what proportion of the population dislike him if the current system is not designed to be impacted by the majority.

Popularity becomes somewhat irrelevant and unless the electoral college is abolished the majority will become less relevant given States are becoming more and more partisan.
Minnesota is the only state that currently has a divided legislature which is something that hasn't occurred since 1914.

splinter65 wrote: »

If the people who dislike him so much would just dislike him enough to get out and vote, and if there was a Democratic candidate they admired enough to get out and vote for then things would be different.
As it is Trump is their democratically elected leader and, unless something very dramatic happens in the next 17 months, he will be returned again at the next time out.

DubInMeath wrote: »

It's possible that he won't considering he didn't have the popular vote the last time.

Etc etc.

Mod : Kidchameleon is correct and as fascinating/horrifying (depending on one's perspective) the current U.S President is or the possibility of #45 getting a second term is indeed off topic so this is a gentle moderatorly nudge back onto the topic of abortion.

Thanking you.

smacl

Mod: Grumblings about Trump now off topic for this thread. Deleted off topic post. Suggest the Republican fruitcakes thread for those that wish to pursue this line of discussion.

Kidchameleon

This case has me worried, it looks like the couple are baying for blood. We the tax payers are going to have to foot the bill for this. They should have waited for the third test. Granted, it was bad advice to terminate after the first test but nobody was harmed at the end of the day. I suppose the age of the couple could be a factor if the fertility window is closing for them but based on available evidence, that does not seem to be the case.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/woman-who-had-abortion-after-misleading-test-calls-for-an-inquiry-1.3916959


Disgraceful reporting from the Times here, repeatedly referring to a 15 week old fetus as a "baby".

Kidchameleon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

This case has me worried, it looks like the couple are baying for blood. We the tax payers are going to have to foot the bill for this. They should have waited for the third test. Granted, it was bad advice to terminate after the first test but nobody was harmed at the end of the day. I suppose the age of the couple could be a factor if the fertility window is closing for them but based on available evidence, that does not seem to be the case.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/woman-who-had-abortion-after-misleading-test-calls-for-an-inquiry-1.3916959


Disgraceful reporting from the Times here, repeatedly referring to a 15 week old fetus as a "baby".

You might want to use the search function of the site large thread about this already, so you're a little late bringing it up.

Bannasidhe

Kidchameleon wrote: »

This case has me worried, it looks like the couple are baying for blood. We the tax payers are going to have to foot the bill for this. They should have waited for the third test. Granted, it was bad advice to terminate after the first test but nobody was harmed at the end of the day. I suppose the age of the couple could be a factor if the fertility window is closing for them but based on available evidence, that does not seem to be the case.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/woman-who-had-abortion-after-misleading-test-calls-for-an-inquiry-1.3916959


Disgraceful reporting from the Times here, repeatedly referring to a 15 week old fetus as a "baby".

I have to say in my opinion this is a stunningly insensitive post which I suspect is intended to inflame.

I will be watching where this goes with my mod hat on.

Kidchameleon

DubInMeath wrote: »

You might want to use the search function of the site large thread about this already, so you're a little late bringing it up.

Can you link to thread? I am banned from after hours.

volchitsa

Kidchameleon wrote: »

This case has me worried, it looks like the couple are baying for blood. We the tax payers are going to have to foot the bill for this. They should have waited for the third test. Granted, it was bad advice to terminate after the first test but nobody was harmed at the end of the day. I suppose the age of the couple could be a factor if the fertility window is closing for them but based on available evidence, that does not seem to be the case.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/woman-who-had-abortion-after-misleading-test-calls-for-an-inquiry-1.3916959


Disgraceful reporting from the Times here, repeatedly referring to a 15 week old fetus as a "baby".

And yet you said on this very thread not long ago that an abortion at 8 weeks was murder.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Grand 'm getting to that. Say we change the situation a bit. A man slips abortion pills during the 8th week of pregnancy, pregnancy ends & he is charged with "fetal homicide". Woman has an abortion at 8 weeks, no charges. Both acts lead to the same outcome - pregnancy ends. Why are both not considered "homicide" or "murder"? I understand this a a bit of a semantic discussion. I am pro choice but I believe abortion is what it is. It is murder.

Would you care to explain or are you just trolling the hell out of the thread?

Mod : A wee reminder of the new shiny charter:

Posters are not allowed to refer to each other, directly or indirectly, as "liars", "trolls", "bigots", "bullies", "soap-boxers" or any other terms which impute antisocial motives to other posters. In the normal run of discussion, posters should avoid disputed terms without agreeing on what precisely the terms might mean, and should definitions be agreed, these terms should be used sparingly and only to bring the discussion forward. An example of such a disputed term is "murder" in the context of abortion.

Kidchameleon

volchitsa wrote: »

Would you care to explain or are you just trolling the hell out of the thread?

It was pointed out to me in this thread why it is not murder and I accept that. It is killing, in the same sense that standing on a worm is killing.

Mod: Kidchameleon has been infracted for ignoring repeated mod instructions not to use emotive terms designed to inflame. If you wish to query this do so via PM and not in thread. Thanking you.

volchitsa

Okay sorry. Will try not to do it again.

Kidchameleon

Ah I got sucked in again. Look it is not about me. I came here to discuss the ongoing abortion case that is in the news at the moment. It is my opinion that it will be an expensive case and a waste of time. I would like to get my peers thoughts on it.

volchitsa

Kidchameleon wrote: »

It was pointed out to me in this thread why it is not murder and I accept that. It is killing, in the same sense that standing on a worm is killing.

Mod: Kidchameleon has been infracted for ignoring repeated mod instructions not to use emotive terms designed to inflame. If you wish to query this do so via PM and not in thread. Thanking you.

No, I'm not suggesting we discuss that topic again, I'm simply asking why you are apparently so shocked and annoyed now to see the IT referring to it as a baby, when presumably you agree that some people may reasonably think of it as a baby?

After all, whatever you may think about it today, you must have thought something similar yourself for some considerable time, right? Do you expect everyone else to change at the exact same time as you?

(If this is considered too close to the previous topic then I'm happy for a mod to remove it, but it seems to me to be a different question.)

Kidchameleon

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I have to say in my opinion this is a stunningly insensitive post which I suspect is intended to inflame.

I will be watching where this goes with my mod hat on.

I understand what you are saying, that is not the intention. In what way is it insensitive? The fetus that was terminated in this case was just that, a fetus. The couple can simply try again. It is a 3 month setback at worst for them. I worry for the medical staff in this case, will people be sacked? I would hate for that to happen personally, we are fortunate to have such dedicated staff here in Ireland who put up with enough as it is.

Kidchameleon

volchitsa wrote: »

No, I'm not suggesting we discuss that topic again, I'm simply asking why you are apparently so shocked and annoyed now to see the IT referring to it as a baby, when presumably you agree that some people may reasonably think of it as a baby?

Of course I can understand people calling it a baby. But in this case, the IT are obviously trying to be emotive. In the context of the IT's pro choice position, they are contradicting themselves. It is rag journalism.

Bannasidhe

Kidchameleon wrote: »

This case has me worried, it looks like the couple are baying for blood. We the tax payers are going to have to foot the bill for this. They should have waited for the third test. Granted, it was bad advice to terminate after the first test but nobody was harmed at the end of the day. I suppose the age of the couple could be a factor if the fertility window is closing for them but based on available evidence, that does not seem to be the case.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/woman-who-had-abortion-after-misleading-test-calls-for-an-inquiry-1.3916959


Disgraceful reporting from the Times here, repeatedly referring to a 15 week old fetus as a "baby".

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I understand what you are saying, that is not the intention. In what way is it insensitive? The fetus that was terminated in this case was just that, a fetus. The couple can simply try again. It is a 3 month setback at worst for them. I worry for the medical staff in this case, will people be sacked? I would hate for that to happen personally, we are fortunate to have such dedicated staff here in Ireland who put up with enough as it is.

If you honestly cannot see why what you posted was insensitive or indeed why you are continuing to be insensitive (examples highlighted) given the tragic nature of this case then I cannot help you.

What I can, and will do, is work to prevent this tragedy being used in an attempt to stir up this thread by people stirring the faeces.

eviltwin

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I understand what you are saying, that is not the intention. In what way is it insensitive? The fetus that was terminated in this case was just that, a fetus. The couple can simply try again. It is a 3 month setback at worst for them. I worry for the medical staff in this case, will people be sacked? I would hate for that to happen personally, we are fortunate to have such dedicated staff here in Ireland who put up with enough as it is.

Wow, as if your first post wasn't bad enough now you follow it up with this? Do you really think so little of people who chose abortion that you cannot see how the loss of their much wanted baby would be absolutely devastating for them?

Kidchameleon

I sympathize with them of course and I hope they try again successfully but the situation is not much different than miscarrying. It happens day in , day out (miscarriage rates are circa 250 a week in Ireland I believe). I am confident that they will get over this, like hundreds of other people do every week. My concern is really with the superb medical staff and the tax payers on this one. I know it is crude but we are dealing with a relatively young fetus here. Personally, I would have waited for the third test to come in, it is only another two weeks of development, I know this makes the abortion more complicated on the woman but as far as the fetus is concerned, there really is no difference.

Bannasidhe

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I sympathize with them of course and I hope they try again successfully but the situation is not much different than miscarrying. It happens day in , day out (miscarriage rates are circa 250 a week in Ireland I believe). I am confident that they will get over this, like hundreds of other people do every week. My concern is really with the superb medical staff and the tax payers on this one. I know it is crude but we are dealing with a relatively young fetus here. Personally, I would have waited for the third test to come in, it is only another two weeks of development, I know this makes the abortion more complicated on the woman but as far as the fetus is concerned, there really is no difference.

MOD: Continue along these lines at your peril. Any more insensitive and inflammatory comments such as this will see you take an extended holiday from this forum.

eviltwin

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I sympathize with them of course and I hope they try again successfully but the situation is not much different than miscarrying. It happens day in , day out (miscarriage rates are circa 250 a week in Ireland I believe). I am confident that they will get over this, like hundreds of other people do every week. My concern is really with the superb medical staff and the tax payers on this one. I know it is crude but we are dealing with a relatively young fetus here. Personally, I would have waited for the third test to come in, it is only another two weeks of development, I know this makes the abortion more complicated on the woman but as far as the fetus is concerned, there really is no difference.

You really haven't a clue. Miscarriage and abortion, even when for the best, can be devastating for those involved. Spokesperson for the couple said they are heartbroken which is completely understandable.

Timberrrrrrrr

eviltwin wrote: »

You really haven't a clue. Miscarriage and abortion, even when for the best, can be devastating for those involved. Spokesperson for the couple said they are heartbroken which is completely understandable.

Dont feed it, he's banned from AH for a reason.

Mod : and don't comment on the poster please or imply they may dwell under a bridge as per the charter.

smacl

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Dont feed it, he's banned from AH for a reason.

Mod : and don't comment on the poster please or imply they may dwell under a bridge as per the charter.

And if such a being perhaps dwelt under said bridge and one were to walk across it, important not to inadvertently get knocked off by being conned into some back seat modding. Some types will go to great lengths to sow discord. Just knocking back my first beer of the weekend and thinking out loud here, have a good one yourself.