Abortion Discussion, Part the Fourth

Loafing Oaf

Igotadose wrote: »

There are daily threads elsewhere here on this subject:) Trying to bring the discussion back, should we in Ireland be concerned with possible compromise to recently-gained abortion rights in NI? Are the pro-life stirring things up yet now that they've finally got their government reconstituted? That government has a tonne to do given it's let it all fester for 3 years. Recall that there was a stunt when the abortion regulations were about to change where the DUP tried to finagle a quorum to prove they had a government and hence the laws wouldn't come into effect. Fortunately they failed.

But, pro-life is extremely well financed from the US and the RCC and I imagine they're at least strategizing now. Be interested in others thoughts on how this might play out and what to watch for in the upcoming months.

I wonder how much control the NI government will have over the regulations due to come in at the end of March. Presumably they can't overturn Westminster law entirely and there will have to be an 'on demand' element at the core of the regulations. Beyond that I suppose the DUP will try to make the regulations as restrictive as possible and SF will push back against them.

aloyisious

Unless something miraculous happens, with the pending election I think you can forget about any laws restricting protests outside hospitals or clinics for the time being.

Bredabe

aloyisious wrote: »

Unless something miraculous happens, with the pending election I think you can forget about any laws restricting protests outside hospitals or clinics for the time being.

One to bring up on the doorsteps then, assuming they have the goolies to door to door canvas.

Loafing Oaf

aloyisious wrote: »

Unless something miraculous happens, with the pending election I think you can forget about any laws restricting protests outside hospitals or clinics for the time being.

https://www.thejournal.ie/protests-exclusion-zones-abortion-ireland-4956281-Jan2020/

With overwhelming public support for such 'exclusion zones' I'd say whatever government gets in after the election would be minded to bring in these laws fairly promptly

Hotblack Desiato

One would hope so, but we have to remember it was only public pressure which brought about the referendum in the first place, if it had been left up to the politicians they wouldn't have touched the issue with a bargepole - remember how it took them 21 years to legislate for the X case?

Loafing Oaf

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

One would hope so, but we have to remember it was only public pressure which brought about the referendum in the first place, if it had been left up to the politicians they wouldn't have touched the issue with a bargepole - remember how it took them 21 years to legislate for the X case?

Not an issue a new FF government would be keen to see near the top of its in-tray, you would think. But maybe they will see it as an opportunity to demonstrate their newfound pro-choice credentials. Wouldn't be surprised if Stephen Donnelly made a commitment ahead of the election...

Pherekydes

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised if Stephen Donnelly made a commitment ahead of the election...

To move to which party?

Cabaal

Had my first canvasser last night and they did something I noticed during the last lot of elections... They didn't ring the doorbell.

I'm fairly sure my together for yes sticker plays a part in how they act as I've previously seen canvassers during the local elections point at it and other walk up the driveway and then walk away without knocking/ringing.

Peregrinus

Cabaal wrote: »

Had my first canvasser last night and they did something I noticed during the last lot of elections... They didn't ring the doorbell.

I'm fairly sure my together for yes sticker plays a part in how they act as I've previously seen canvassers during the local elections point at it and other walk up the driveway and then walk away without knocking/ringing.

Depends on which party they are canvassing for, obviously.

But the art of the canvas is to spend your time wisely. You don't want to spend hours on the doorsteps of people who would never vote for you in a fit, but you also don't want to spend hours with people who are already going to vote for you anyway. You want to focus your time and effort on those who might be receptive to your party/candidates/policies/stance, but aren't committed.

dvdman1

The abortion debate has to be the most depressing public debate.

Its like taking albert einstein and giving him a lobotomy before all his great achievements. But on the bright side his parents can afford a new car...yeehaay

ohnonotgmail

dvdman1 wrote: »

The abortion debate has to be the most depressing public debate.

Its like taking albert einstein and giving him a lobotomy before all his great achievements. But on the bright side his parents can afford a new car...yeehaay

I'm sure that made sense to you when you wrote it

Hotblack Desiato

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I'm sure that made sense to you when you wrote it

I doubt that.

Bannasidhe

dvdman1 wrote: »

The abortion debate has to be the most depressing public debate.

Its like taking albert einstein and giving him a lobotomy before all his great achievements. But on the bright side his parents can afford a new car...yeehaay

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I'm sure that made sense to you when you wrote it

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I doubt that.

I suspect it's a spin on the old 'aborted child could grow up to cure cancer'/'children are aborted so women can go on holiday' tropes.

Funny how rarely it's things like 'Stalin would have never been alive to send people to Siberian gulags'/'family saves money by not having to pay for woman's funeral'.

Strange that...

ohnonotgmail

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I suspect it's a spin on the old 'aborted child could grow up to cure cancer'/'children are aborted so women can go on holiday' tropes.

Funny how rarely it's things like 'Stalin would have never been alive to send people to Siberian gulags'/'family saves money by not having to pay for woman's funeral'.

Strange that...

ah, i see. a particularly stupid argument.

smacl

dvdman1 wrote: »

The abortion debate has to be the most depressing public debate.

Its like taking albert einstein and giving him a lobotomy before all his great achievements. But on the bright side his parents can afford a new car...yeehaay

And yet here you are giving us your 2c worth as your first post in this forum for some years. Why is that?

B0jangles

Pherekydes wrote: »

To move to which party?

As an aside, I will be very interested to see how well he does; there is and was a hell of a lot of anger and resentment locally after the bait-and-switch he pulled last time around.
I've also heard that he and his 'team' are deeply resented as blow-ins by a good many long-term local fianna fáil party members.

I know I gave him pretty high preference last time, and the very thought of being tricked into voting fianna fáil makes me slightly nauseous.

Bannasidhe

B0jangles wrote: »

As an aside, I will be very interested to see how well he does; there is and was a hell of a lot of anger and resentment locally after the bait-and-switch he pulled last time around.
I've also heard that he and his 'team' are deeply resented as blow-ins by a good many long-term local fianna fáil party members.

I know I gave him pretty high preference last time, and the very thought of being tricked into voting fianna fáil makes me slightly nauseous.

I have long thought if someone elected for Party A jumps ship and joins Party B it should trigger a by election.
Also if a change in party leadership means a new Taoiseach - should be a GE.

lazygal

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/hse-disputes-extent-of-damages-sought-over-pregnant-woman-kept-on-life-support-1.4146914?mode=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


The eighth amendment continues to haunt Ireland's families and will do for generations.

Loafing Oaf

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

So there would be nothing inappropriate or 'jumping the gun' if a political party were to set out what changes it would like to see to the legislation in advance of the review and indeed of the general election? If a TD thinks the three-day waiting period is a bad thing and should be removed from the legislation, it wouldn't be contrary to 'political etiquette' for them to come out and say that now?

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5005264/fianna-fail-campaign-abortion-referendum-election/
FF seemingly on the end of a social media campaign claiming it's planning to reverse the result of the abortion referendum.

This is why I was wondering if it would be appropriate for a party to specify exactly what it planned to do about abortion law ahead of the election. FF's response to the campaign could be seen as somewhat vague and ambiguous.

“This is nothing more than another dirty tricks campaign which is not based in fact. Fianna Fáil has absolutely no plan to reverse the abortion legislation.

“The majority of Irish people voted in favour of repealing the Eighth Amendment and this is now reflected in the legislation.

"The party has no intention to change the law allowing abortion in Ireland."

Bannasidhe

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5005264/fianna-fail-campaign-abortion-referendum-election/
FF seemingly on the end of a social media campaign claiming it's planning to reverse the result of the abortion referendum.

This is why I was wondering if it would be appropriate for a party to specify exactly what it planned to do about abortion law ahead of the election. FF's response to the campaign could be seen as somewhat vague and ambiguous.

Surely in order to reverse it they would need to hold yet another referendum? The 8th has been repealed. FF could try and amend the legislation to bring in restrictions or even outlaw abortion via legislation.
Given the percentage Repeal won by this would, imho, be a very unwise move politically.

Loafing Oaf

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Surely in order to reverse it they would need to hold yet another referendum? The 8th has been repealed. FF could try and amend the legislation to bring in restrictions or even outlaw abortion via legislation.
Given the percentage Repeal won by this would, imho, be a very unwise move politically.

This is just mudslinging. I doubt whoever is behind this campaign genuinely believes FF plans to 'repeal repeal'. I was just wondering if FF wanted to allay lingering concerns among pro-choice voters, it might come out and say it intended to abolish the three-day waiting period or whatever.

Cabaal

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I was just wondering if FF wanted to allay lingering concerns among pro-choice voters, it might come out and say it intended to abolish the three-day waiting period or whatever.

Won't happen in a million years, FF as a party really at its TD core is anti women and wanted the 8th to remain.

lazygal

Cabaal wrote: »

Won't happen in a million years, FF as a party really at its TD core is anti women and wanted the 8th to remain.

If anything it will lock in the three day wait and possibly increase it, as well as suggest in future it would reduce access to abortion by allowing institutional conscientious objection.

Bannasidhe

lazygal wrote: »

If anything it will lock in the three day wait and possibly increase it, as well as suggest in future it would reduce access to abortion by allowing institutional conscientious objection.

Which in the current political climate would only be possible if they managed to secure a majority govt that is less favourable to Pro-Choice- unlikely even if they had a coalition as I can't see them - or the likes of Aontú - getting enough seats to push it through.

Hotblack Desiato

Aontu will have 1 seat max and even that one is in doubt.

robindch

#45 acquires a "spiritual advisor" named Paula White.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-50352939/paula-white-cain-faith-advisers-in-the-white-house

Here's Ms White showing off her pro-life dibs, especially the bit at 1:20 where she enjoins baby Jesus to make "all satanic pregnancies to miscarry right now”:

https://twitter.com/GuthrieGF/status/1221208783411650560

Pherekydes

Anyone else thinking of Carrie right now? 🤣

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

#45 acquires a "spiritual advisor" named Paula White.



Here's Ms White showing off her pro-life dibs, especially the bit at 1:20 where she enjoins baby Jesus to make "all satanic pregnancies to miscarry right now”:

https://twitter.com/GuthrieGF/status/1221208783411650560

I often ponder over my morning coffee who is really the more batshyte crazy mentally challenged - those who spout it or those who believe it.
I suppose those who spout and believe have the edge but I do tend to view those who professionally spout as latter day Elmer Gantrys.

aloyisious

Don was at an anti-abortion rally two days ago in the US, I assumed it was to rally religious people around him in his hour of need as he's known to have alternative views on abortion to them. What are satanic pregnancies that the losing of the baby [as the anti-abortion see the foetus] is seen as a worthy aim?

Bannasidhe

aloyisious wrote: »

What are satanic pregnancies that the losing of the baby [as the anti-abortion see the foetus] is seen as a worthy aim?

Potential Godammed Liberulz?

aloyisious

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Potential Godammed Liberulz?

I was mooting same-sex couples and [through nature's mishaps] childless couples using AI or surrogates to go outside the remits of the good book.

Cabaal

I think we all remember this train wreck of an interview with a pro lifer called Sarah Louise Mulligan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tja3CkGqoYg

Well, she's back and running in the election!



She's always been a fan of Treump and or leaflet shows that hasn't changed with her tag line,

She stands for
- ignoring climate change
- wants a more conservative catholic media in Ireland.
- Is against sex education
- wants priority given to the catholic church
- anti EU


Whats very odd is she's very much pro catholic values, but I'm not sure she understands what they are because they certainly aren't what she does in her spare time as a burlesque dancer

Feeling very comfortable & liberated in her own skin, she is no stranger to nipple tassels, fishnet tights and frilly knickers under the stage name, 'Molly Munroe', she transforms herself into a seductive tease . . .

http://www.sarahlouisemulligan.com/burlesque.html

She's also played a lap dancer as an extra on Love/Hate.

Catholic values my arse.....

Bredabe

Cabaal wrote: »

I think we all remember this train wreck of an interview with a pro lifer called Sarah Louise Mulligan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tja3CkGqoYg

Well, she's back and running in the election!



She's always been a fan of Treump and or leaflet shows that hasn't changed with her tag line,

She stands for
- ignoring climate change
- wants a more conservative catholic media in Ireland.
- Is against sex education
- wants priority given to the catholic church
- anti EU


Whats very odd is she's very much pro catholic values, but I'm not sure she understands what they are because they certainly aren't what she does in her spare time as a burlesque dancer


http://www.sarahlouisemulligan.com/burlesque.html

She's also played a lap dancer as an extra on Love/Hate.

Catholic values my arse.....

SOOOOOOO many things she is against that are anti christian, she seems to be very anti immigrant, even those from hyper catholic countries?

In the catholicism I grew up in, at the very least the PP would have been asked to have a word about the length of that dress and could well have been on a list for that most joyful bastion of then catholicism, the maggies!

Bredabe

Bredabe wrote: »

SOOOOOOO many things she is against that are anti christian, she seems to be very anti immigrant, even those from hyper catholic countries?

In the catholicism I grew up in, at the very least the PP would have been asked to have a word about the length of that dress and could well have been on a list for that most joyful bastion of then catholicism, the maggies!

A fecking bandwagon case looking to make a few quid off idiots, much like John McGuirk, Justin Barrett, Gemma O'Doherty etc.

aloyisious

BTW, Justin Barrett is involved in the election as the National Party is running candidates.

B0jangles

aloyisious wrote: »

BTW, Justin Barrett is involved in the election as the National Party is running candidates.

Just saw their party political broadcast and... let's just say they are not looking to appeal to anyone who is not already a firm supporter of their views

aloyisious

aloyisious wrote: »

BTW, Justin Barrett is involved in the election as the National Party is running candidates.

Yep few of their shills in the election threads, along with a few regular posters and suddenly active zombie accounts, whose posts are lets say are just a level over pond scum most of the time.

Igotadose

B0jangles wrote: »

Just saw their party political broadcast and... let's just say they are not looking to appeal to anyone who is not already a firm supporter of their views

That eejit David Quinn wrote an editorial in Sunday's Times, where he basically said, "Hey, you parties need to court the anti-abortion vote because...well, because I think they're important."

Is he a journalist? Lists a sunday times e-mail address, but isn't he just another I Own Her shill?

ohnonotgmail

Igotadose wrote: »

That eejit David Quinn wrote an editorial in Sunday's Times, where he basically said, "Hey, you parties need to court the anti-abortion vote because...well, because I think they're important."

Is he a journalist? Lists a sunday times e-mail address, but isn't he just another I Own Her shill?

not just another I Own Her shill, the head I Own Her shill

Igotadose

Igotadose wrote: »

That eejit David Quinn wrote an editorial in Sunday's Times, where he basically said, "Hey, you parties need to court the anti-abortion vote because...well, because I think they're important."

Is he a journalist? Lists a sunday times e-mail address, but isn't he just another I Own Her shill?

He's a regular contributor of theirs if memory serves me correctly

He used to be editor of the Irish Catholic and used to be the religious and social affairs correspondent for the independent before getting into Iona.

Igotadose

DubInMeath wrote: »

He's a regular contributor of theirs if memory serves me correctly

He used to be editor of the Irish Catholic and used to be the religious and social affairs correspondent for the independent before getting into Iona.

No indication of his employment in his byline. Typical disingenuity from the Amen chorus

Bredabe

Pro life adds in the local papers this week, the cute pink baby graphic and the usual guff.
I cant attach a link, but if its in two of the papers I've been shown so far, I would expect its in lots.


* They've not gone away as hoped. Us evangelical money must be good to keep hammering on and on about it.

Loafing Oaf

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/protests-exclusion-zones-abortion-ireland-4956281-Jan2020/

With overwhelming public support for such 'exclusion zones' I'd say whatever government gets in after the election would be minded to bring in these laws fairly promptly

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Not an issue a new FF government would be keen to see near the top of its in-tray, you would think. But maybe they will see it as an opportunity to demonstrate their newfound pro-choice credentials. Wouldn't be surprised if Stephen Donnelly made a commitment ahead of the election...

FG hopeful Deirdre Duffy has spotted a stick for beating FF in their failure to offer such a commitment:
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/varadkar-accused-of-nasty-politics-but-he-brands-ff-very-disrespectful-38924433.html

Last night Fine Gael candidate Deirdre Duffy waded into the debate. She said her party will prioritise legislating for 'safe access zones' so women can access healthcare and abortion services without impediment.

Ms Duffy expressed extreme concern at the prospect of a Fianna Fáil government as its manifesto doesn't mention 'safe access zones'. The Dublin Central candidate said: "When it comes to women's healthcare and access to abortion services, Fianna Fáil is the party of no."

FF had clearly been hoping to avoid any mention of the whole (divisive for them) issue but FG seems to think there's a bit of political hay to be made from it...

A_Lost_Man

abortion is necessary because someday the world is going to die due to over population. In past religious leaders ban abortion because of less population and due to non availability of psy. But know there is psy everwhere.

ohnonotgmail

A_Lost_Man wrote: »

abortion is necessary because someday the world is going to die due to over population. In past religious leaders ban abortion because of less population and due to non availability of psy. But know there is psy everwhere.

What?

smacl

A_Lost_Man wrote: »

abortion is necessary because someday the world is going to die due to over population. In past religious leaders ban abortion because of less population and due to non availability of psy. But know there is psy everwhere.

Not sure what you're referring to by 'psy' there. Over population is addressed by family planning, where abortion forms the smallest part of this in cases of contraception failure.

Igotadose

smacl wrote: »

Not sure what you're referring to by 'psy' there. Over population is addressed by family planning, where abortion forms the smallest part of this in cases of contraception failure.

Seems it's 'troll day' here and in other fora. Just a few posts, this one's probably an anti-abortion nim trying to get his nim-buds to pile on.

Bannasidhe

Igotadose wrote: »

Seems it's 'troll day' here and in other fora. Just a few posts, this one's probably an anti-abortion nim trying to get his nim-buds to pile on.

MOD
A little refresher of the Forum Charter may be in order here.

Posters are not allowed to refer to each other, directly or indirectly, as "liars", "trolls", "bigots", "bullies", "soap-boxers" or any other terms which impute antisocial motives to other posters. In the normal run of discussion, posters should avoid disputed terms without agreeing on what precisely the terms might mean, and should definitions be agreed, these terms should be used sparingly and only to bring the discussion forward. An example of such a disputed term is "murder" in the context of abortion.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110069814&postcount=6

In short if you suspect a poster dwells under a bridge please use the report function and your friendly mods will keep an eye on things.

Thanking you.

A_Lost_Man

A_Lost_Man wrote: »

abortion is necessary because someday the world is going to die due to over population. In past religious leaders ban abortion because of less population and due to non availability of psy. But know there is psy everwhere.

A Korean singer is related to population control, how is this? Is it due to people losing all will to live after listening to their output?

A_Lost_Man

smacl wrote: »

Not sure what you're referring to by 'psy' there. Over population is addressed by family planning, where abortion forms the smallest part of this in cases of contraception failure.

Actually i was referring to "pussy". My point was in past due to non availibility of females for marriages (fvking ceremonies) church needed to increase their strength and they ban abortion and there was a problem with church it thought the human population is very less and to increase their followers they ban abortion for their personal beneift but know it is not a issue.