Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

Beechwoodspark

Can anyone confirm if this Fr Felim Kelly priest is involved in the school management?

tretorn

Its more than likely that he is on the Board of Management as the school was Catholic. Thats how he would have become so friendly with Hawe.

road_high

That Alan Hawe reminds me of Nicolis Ceacescu former dicatator of Romania- has that ugly, creepy look about him.
I'd say he couldn't believe his look when he grabbed Clodagh, herself and her sister are very good looking girls- he couldn't bare the thoughts of losing control over her.

DEFTLEFTHAND

NIMAN wrote: »

You see the church have this old adage that everyone can be forgiven.
God will forgive all sinners.

Not many people will say this publicly about Alan Hawe though.

It's more that God will Judge him, not man.

I's say nobody in the Church really thinks that Alan Hawe is anywhere good right now, they're just going through the motions.

Lollipops23

road_high wrote: »

I'd say he couldn't believe his look when he grabbed Clodagh, herself and her sister are very good looking girls- he couldn't bare the thoughts of losing control over her.

She was 17 and fresh out of school, probably feeling a tad lost in a new city and new college environment. I can imagine that he swept her off her feet, knight in shining armor etc.

seamus

mariaalice wrote: »

Its not as simple as someone from the school telling them off the record, the board of management is a legal entity it has to operate under rules, if a teacher did it off the record it might not be the full story it could be gossip. It has to be either legally mandated full disclosure to the family or nothing, off the record could leave someone open to being sued.

Sure, but dead people have no right to privacy.

There is nothing legally preventing the board of management from providing an official statement about Hawe. They don't need anyone's permission, just need to redact the names of any living persons.

It suggests to me that if they won't provide such information freely, then they're hiding their own failings, that the issue in question is more serious than has been let on and at least one person was shielding him to some extent. If they won't reveal what was going on, then it's because there are questions that they don't want to have to answer.

I wonder if the nature of the porn he was caught with is an issue. Or perhaps he was grooming some of the kids.

SoundsRight

Was he having issues with his gender? The reports didn't elaborate on why he dressed in women's clothing.

tretorn

The issue couldnt have had to do with children surely.
In that case whoever caught him had a mandatory duty to alert the Gardai.
If on the other hand he was watching child porn or grooming children and this wasnt reported then someone is in dereliction of their duty.
The family and the people living in that town need to know what happened.
The Department of Education are ulimately responsible for that school so questions should be put in the Dail to the Minister for Education. If there is nothing to hide produce the files.
The INTO need to orovide whatever information they have too, Clodagh was a teacher too, do the INTO not tepresent her too. Hawe rang them, had he been fired from the school, someone in the INTO knows what happened.

DEFTLEFTHAND

SoundsRight wrote: »

Was he having issues with his gender? The reports didn't elaborate on why he dressed in women's clothing.

Probably just a perversion.

There's no reports suggesting that he was having gender issues.

Lollipops23

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Probably just a perversion.

There's no reports suggesting that he was having gender issues.

It sounds like he was maybe getting more and more into kink? Perhaps his warped toxic view of sexual and gender norms made him feel forced into a corner?

You'd need to have a pretty backwards and arrogant view of things to assume your family would never recover from the "scandal" of some fairly common kinky behaviours.

nice_guy80

He reminds me of Graham Dwyer

Controlling
Cold
Manipulative
Bit odd

lalababa

Calltocall wrote: »

Is there something to there being a high proportion if not all murder suicides that have happened here have taken place in rural Ireland? I mean not to insult anybody, but I have lived both in rural Ireland and in large cities, I feel that the sense of not sticking out or being different is far more a thing in rural communities, everyone knows each other, similar values/lifestyles etc leading to one repressing their real selves to avoid eyes on them, wheras in a big city if you’re different or quirky it’s no big deal and more likely to be accepted.

Yep. The pressure to conform is strong in rural Ireland. You will be targeted if you step out of conformity.

SirChenjin

Balagan1 wrote: »

It is what happens in this country, except for that brave lady in Cork who didn't let her husband be buried with their two daughters whom he murdered. Otherwise, the little girl drowned by her father was buried with him and the little boy whose Dad drove them both into a wall was buried with him. It is difficult for families to so quickly process what has happened and to be clear viewed about it and usually, in the case of Catholics, there's a priest bleating on about forgiveness and it's only later when the fog clears that people come to their senses. In the Hawe case it was known before the burial that the man had asked to be cremated and his ashes dumped in the sea. That was known to the family. But, again, the priest and the rush to cover it all in forgiveness and GAA jerseys. Nobody should ever be buried with the person who ended their life. End of.

Absolutely.

What the family of Clodagh were and are trying to deal with is unimaginable. One cannot begin to imagine the horror that hit them on that awful day.

And as has been said, having to give such an interview now in order to obtain answers is almost unbelievable.

I remember seeing the coffins lined up before the altar, on the news, with the parents coffins at either end and the coffins of the boys in the middle and thinking how wrong it looked.

This vile creature had ended the lives of four innocent human beings in the most horrendous, brutal way, and should not have been next nigh or near them.

It then brought even further grief and stress to the family to get the exhumation carried out.

I can't even say how sorry I feel for Clodagh's family, for the loss of those four beautiful and beloved people.

There honestly are no words.

freshpopcorn

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I don't get how someone in the know hasn't even approached Clodagh's family "off the record" about this. They don't have to be officially told, they're just desperate for answers and closure.

The incident in the school is an unusual thing. It may haven't even got reported.
Somebody may have seen something and did nothing about it.
If another member of staff witnessed something they'd want to report it fairly fast because if it was serious ot would look bad on them.
If the school did approach them off the record of they knew something. they could land themselves in a lot of trouble.

tretorn

tretorn wrote: »

The Department of Education are ulimately responsible for that school so questions should be put in the Dail to the Minister for Education. If there is nothing to hide produce the files.

the Dept is responsible for overseeing the curriculum and its implementation. They don't own the school, and they're not in a position to seize private property belonging to it, including any files or I.T. That's a matter for Gardaí, and presumably there's no suggestion of a crime having been committed in the school.

Can someone tell me if my grasp of the timeline is wrong here, Hawe was caught masturbation in school in March, and was still allowed to remain in work until the Summer holidays in June; by September there had still been no disciplinary action taken against him, even as Deputy Principal?

This seems odd to me. If I had a kid in that school, I'd be very angry that this was allowed drag on for so long. Why?

Obviously the people who most require answers are the Coll and Connolly families, but local parents must surely be demanding the same? In the absence of any information, it's hard not to speculate that the school has screwed up here.

A school isn't a normal workplace, where this kind of behaviour might be overlooked. Any action to be taken against Hawe should have been taken much earlier, regardless of the fact that the School couldn't have anticipated what he later planned for his family.

freshpopcorn

autumnbelle wrote: »

Did any of his children attend the school he was working in?

As far as most of know his youngest two did.

freshpopcorn

tretorn wrote: »

Its more than likely that he is on the Board of Management as the school was Catholic. Thats how he would have become so friendly with Hawe.

It says in this article one of the kids sang in the choir and the family regularly attended.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/evoke.ie/2016/09/02/news/irish-news/clodagh-hawes-sister-explains-pressure-on-father-of-three/amp

Gonad

Very sad reading the transcript of the full interview.

He was wearing her underwear so must have been caught looking at some fetish porn and was so embarrassed he felt he needed to do this. Messed up and the brain can do funny things to people . Sounds like he was a bit of a control freak so felt this was the best way out .

Those poor boys though

tretorn

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

the Dept is responsible for overseeing the curriculum and its implementation. They don't own the school, and they're not in a position to seize private property belonging to it, including any files or I.T. That's a matter for Gardaí, and presumably there's no suggestion of a crime having been committed in the school.

Can someone tell me if my grasp of the timeline is wrong here, Hawe was caught masturbation in school in March, and was still allowed to remain in work until the Summer holidays in June; by September there had still been no disciplinary action taken against him, even as Deputy Principal?

This seems odd to me. If I had a kid in that school, I'd be very angry that this was allowed drag on for so long. Why?

Obviously the people who most require answers are the Coll and Connolly families, but local parents must surely be demanding the same? In the absence of any information, it's hard not to speculate that the school has screwed up here.

A school isn't a normal workplace, where this kind of behaviour might be overlooked. Any action to be taken against Hawe should have been taken much earlier, regardless of the fact that the School couldn't have anticipated what he later planned for his family.

Hawes salary was paid by the Department of Education and he did whatever he did in a building maintained by the Department of Education.The safety and well being of pupils is the Departments responsibility and if the same staff are in the school then the Department needs to know what happened there.
Hawe rang his Union for some readon so someone in the INTO knows whether disciplinary action was being taken. The INTO also presumably took union dues from Clodagh too so dont her family deserve to be treated with compassion. What difference does it make now except to Hawes family what is disclosed, the bereaved need to know why their family members died and no ine but them matters now.
The statement from the INTO was disgraceful, why not just say what Hawe rang them about, the parents in that school need to know.

tretorn

tretorn wrote: »

Hawes salary was paid by the Department of Education and he did whatever he did in a building maintained by the Department of Education.The safety and well being of pupils is the Departments responsibility and if the same staff are in the school then the Department needs to know what happened there.

Ah listen, I know, it's a ridiculous situation - the Department pays the salaries and provides the grants, but it doesn't own school property, and in Catholic schools, a teachers contract is with the Board of Management.

It's not as it should be, but the Department can't just wade in seizing private property, or compelling a statement without a legal basis. So unfortunately, a Parliamentary Question isn't a viable option here, I don't think.

I cannot understand why the INTO and the school haven't willingly aided the bereaved families with any questions they might have. It may indeed take an Inquiry, something akin to the Guerin Inquiry, to get answers for them.

hawley

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

the Dept is responsible for overseeing the curriculum and its implementation. They don't own the school, and they're not in a position to seize private property belonging to it, including any files or I.T. That's a matter for Gardaí, and presumably there's no suggestion of a crime having been committed in the school.

Can someone tell me if my grasp of the timeline is wrong here, Hawe was caught masturbation in school in March, and was still allowed to remain in work until the Summer holidays in June; by September there had still been no disciplinary action taken against him, even as Deputy Principal?

This seems odd to me. If I had a kid in that school, I'd be very angry that this was allowed drag on for so long. Why?

Obviously the people who most require answers are the Coll and Connolly families, but local parents must surely be demanding the same? In the absence of any information, it's hard not to speculate that the school has screwed up here.

A school isn't a normal workplace, where this kind of behaviour might be overlooked. Any action to be taken against Hawe should have been taken much earlier, regardless of the fact that the School couldn't have anticipated what he later planned for his family.

I would presume that he was suspended from school. That's probably why he carried out the murders on that night; he had no job to go to in the morning and couldn't deal with the shame.

nice_guy80

tretorn wrote: »

Hawes salary was paid by the Department of Education and he did whatever he did in a building maintained by the Department of Education.The safety and well being of pupils is the Departments responsibility and if the same staff are in the school then the Department needs to know what happened there.
Hawe rang his Union for some readon so someone in the INTO knows whether disciplinary action was being taken. The INTO also presumably took union dues from Clodagh too so dont her family deserve to be treated with compassion. What difference does it make now except to Hawes family what is disclosed, the bereaved need to know why their family members died and no ine but them matters now.
The statement from the INTO was disgraceful, why not just say what Hawe rang them about, the parents in that school need to know.

Ultimately, it's the school and patron who are responsible for his employment

hawley

hawley wrote: »

I would presume that he was suspended from school. That's probably why he carried out the murders on that night; he had no job to go to in the morning and couldn't deal with the shame.

If he had been suspended, the silence from the School would be even more perplexing, as the matter would have been dealt with, and it would generally absolve them of any negligent behaviour.

But that's speculation, there's nothing to indicate that Hawe was suspended.

AndrewJRenko

Lollipops23 wrote: »

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Probably just a perversion.

There's no reports suggesting that he was having gender issues.

It sounds like he was maybe getting more and more into kink? Perhaps his warped toxic view of sexual and gender norms made him feel forced into a corner?

You'd need to have a pretty backwards and arrogant view of things to assume your family would never recover from the "scandal" of some fairly common kinky behaviours.

Backwards and arrogant indeed, though it is worth noting that small town rural Ireland can be a backwards place, and teaching in Church-owned schools can be a very conservative environment.

DEFTLEFTHAND

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Backwards and arrogant indeed, though it is worth noting that small town rural Ireland can be a backwards place, and teaching in Church-owned schools can be a very conservative environment.

Still though if he was pleasuring himself on school property then Church or not he was going to have to dealt with.

That's not acceptable behaviour.

Beechwoodspark

tretorn wrote: »

Its more than likely that he is on the Board of Management as the school was Catholic. Thats how he would have become so friendly with Hawe.

Would the priest be involved in the investigation into the circumstances of It all in terms of the schools invovlement.

The school issue is central to it all.

That bastard animal murdered the victims the night before he was due to return to his employment in the school

Mrsmum

I suppose the school could be protecting the privacy of a child maybe ??

On the other hand if he was caught just masturbating, while inappropriate, not involving another, then I would have thought it's in the best interests of the school and staff there to reveal what happened because otherwise people will fill the vacuum with speculation and some of that speculation will make the school look bad.

tretorn

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/landmark-victory-after-30-years-for-abuse-victim-louise-okeeffe-29957162.html

This woman was abused by a schoolteacher and the Department tried to say it was the school Board and Patrons who were responsible, the Department lost the case.

I personally would pursue the Department of Education if it was my family. It is so rare for teachers to face disciplinary action I would imagine Department of Education officials are kept informed. If not they should be as per the O keeffe case linked they are ultimately responsible for teachers behaviour in school.

He was a teacher though so being caught masturbating would have serious consequences for him, not just in school but he was also Mr GAA too so he would have had to step back from whatever roles in played in that organisation too. He would have had to be Garda vetted any any questions hanging over that would make it impossible for him to continue working. I would withdraw my child from a school if I thought one of their teachers, male or female was masturbating to porn while supposed to be teaching, thats just so gross.

Hannibal_Smith

Mrsmum wrote: »

I suppose the school could be protecting the privacy of a child maybe ??

On the other hand if he was caught just masturbating, while inappropriate, not involving another, then I would have thought it's in the best interests of the school and staff there to reveal what happened because otherwise people will fill the vacuum with speculation and some of that speculation will make the school look bad.

Did he do it at the school?

ohnonotgmail

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Did he do it at the school?

He was caught masterbating in the school