Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101552#Comment_122101552

honestly bewildering

Is this really bewildering? Frisch went on the Emerging Ireland tour to SA in September 2022, and has not been in a squad since then, correct? That means six centres have had more recent Ireland involvement than him, not including guys who can play centre like Frawley and O'Brien. So, in what sense does Frisch have a place in the wider scheme of things? I would have thought that was pretty uncontroversial, there has been a lot of discussion on this very forum about quite how uninvolved he is. So I have to say, I don't see the issue.

And even now, Munster fans seem pretty agreed he hasn't been great this season, and still the outrage?

previously calling Ben Healy "absolutely sh1te". Quote unquote.

I have no idea when I said that but I would stand by it - has he proved me wrong at some point? A guy being good enough for Edinburgh and good enough to be squad depth for Scotland, that is not proof of any sort that he belongs in a conversation about Munster and certainly not Ireland, sorry.

there's a cohort of Munster fans that are completely fed up of this kind of post

Fair enough - but there's a cohort of Ireland fans who are completely fed up with the relentless thrashing of Ireland whenever something apparently goes wrong for Munster. Ben Healy leaves - Ireland's fault. RG Snyman not allowed to stay on for a FIFTH season, just like every other NIQ? Ireland's fault. Mike Haley - I don't even know what the issue is with him, but apparenly it's Ireland's fault? Frisch wants to go back to his home country for (allegedly) huge money and a long-term deal? Ireland's fault.

And you might argue that YOU don't agree with all this but you certainly don't dispute it.

Former Former Former

I also can't believe people are still posting the interview of Frisch saying his dream was to play for Ireland, like a month after he came out and said, well of course I always wanted to play for France, posters on my wall as a child etc.

ersatz

Have to agree, this is a non issue. Frisch was/is well down the Ireland pecking order and no-one would encourage Ireland to cap players just to keep them in the provinces, or no-one should. He's scored a dream ticket on that mnoney withn a shot at France, more power to him. Its tough on Munster because things were shaping up positively at midfield for next season but that's life with imported plaeyrs.

pickarooney

IMG_20240506_063640.jpg

Nasty, unnecessary hyperbole which you stand by.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102096#Comment_122102096

I agree with a lot of this but what annoys some Munster fans is that Frisch and others find it so hard to get called up to a training squad, yet are good enough to play for another country.

Haley is probably the second best FB in the country, hasn't had a sniff under Farrell.

Kleyn hasn't had a sniff under Farrell and is now RWC winning player.

Then posters are being told they hate Farrell and Ireland if they post anything negative about the selection of the national squads.

Edit to add

Frisch stated he wanted to play for Ireland. After recognising he wasn't getting into Irish squads he had a change of mind about playing for Ireland. Who wouldn't 🤔

From the IT

Speaking to L’Équipe, Frisch confirmed that he has had a change of heart on his international future. “I have been in contact with Fabien Galthié for a long time and this contact has never been interrupted,” he said. “From the moment I was called into the France group, it became very clear to me. I want to play for France

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102175#Comment_122102175

I’m not sure if it’s the sentiment that is objectionable or the choice of words. If the latter, apologies to anyone still coming to terms with the use of “sh1te” 15 months ago.

However, if it’s the sentiment, then I absolutely stand by it. That was in the context of not only Healy being hard done by but that it was proof of the Ireland coach being biased towards Leinster. If he’s proved either me or Farrell emphatically wrong, I’ve missed that particular memo.

Either way, it’s a pretty vanilla post for people still to be outraged about more than a year later

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102323#Comment_122102323

That's true and it's been true forever. When I was a kid I loved Tony Ward and couldn't understand why he was left out of teams for Campbell, though Campbell was phenomenal. Ward's flashiness was attractive to me but Campbell's all round game suited what the coaches wanted, and he won a few triple crowns which was what counted. Zebo should have more caps, but Joe didn't agree. Frisch is fantastic but doesn't fit into Farrell's vision, and there are other great players who can't get near the team. Conan would start for a lot of test sides. Again, Farrell is shoving medals in players pockets though, so it's hard to argue.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101982#Comment_122101982

Yes, it is bewildering to me. Because you’re yet again taking one coaches selection policy as de facto proof that a player is so bad he has

“No place in the wider scheme of things”.

The whole Kleyn debacle hasn’t seemed to give you any pause.

If you’re happy to dish out the above on Frisch, Kleyn and Healy, but simultaneously accuse all Munster fans of piling on Farrell, what kind of reaction do you expect?

Here’s the point; it’s possible to be critical of Farrell’s selection, while acknowledging he’s done an amazing job and has earned that right, without it being “piling on / abuse / hating him”

Just like it’s possible to acknowledge Leinster players may have an easier path to the Ireland squad because of cohesion / familiarity with others etc without it being Leinster bias.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102369#Comment_122102369

I’m not outraged by it.

But if you’re going to dump on “all Munster fans” for “piling on Farrell” on the one hand but are happy to dish out this kind of rhetoric on the other, don’t expect it not to get called out for what it is.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102382#Comment_122102382

I understand this, agree with a lot of it but again, it SHOULD be ok to hold a view that player X should be getting into a squad without being called a coach/team hater. Unfortunately, that can't happen here.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102393#Comment_122102393

Again, if you’re “calling me out” on posts from 15 months ago, I’m not sure I’m the issue here.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102323#Comment_122102323

Frisch wanted to play for Ireland when France didn't want to know

Frisch now wants to to play for France because he couldnt get near the Ireland team and there is far more money on offer in Top14 for him.

Maybe circumstances are at play here for frisch, he arrived the season before a RWC where there was a settled squad which won a slam. The same squad followed that up with another 6n title win this season. Henshaw, Ringrose, Aki, McCloskey - nobody can argue against what they have delivered for Ireland in the time Frisch has been playing for Munster.

Frisch wants to enhance his career and bank balance (nothing wrong with that) and will say the right things at the right time to do that.

Former Former Former

 “I have been in contact with Fabien Galthié for a long time and this contact has never been interrupted,” 

Sorry, how is this proof that Frisch always wanted to play for Ireland?

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102405#Comment_122102405

Again, if you’re happy to throw out generalisations such as the following not 15 hours ago…

You all piled in on Farrell

…while simultaneously dumping on Munster players then I respectfully disagree.

phog

This isn't some anonymous posters making unfounded claims, Frisch himself said that he wanted to play for Ireland, he moved here to be in with a shout of getting a call up. He travelled on the EI tour.

He also said he had a change of heart.

How is that not proof that he wanted to play for Ireland?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102417#Comment_122102417

That’s fair enough. Realistically, if you’re defining February 2023 and May 2024 as simultaneous, then we probably won’t agree on much.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102465#Comment_122102465

You literally said you stand by it, dude.

Calling Ben Healy absolutely shite? Fine, in your view.

Suggesting Frisch is so bad he has “no place in the wider scheme of things?” Fine.

Suggesting Kleyn is so bad you’ll admit you know nothing about rugby and never post here again if he got picked for picked for SA? Fine.

Disagreeing with some of Farrell’s selections? And it’s “You all / piling on / abuse”.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102489#Comment_122102489

Don't forget the "hate Farrell"

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102453#Comment_122102453

It's like when Robbie Keane used to say it was always his childhood dream to play for whatever club he'd just signed a huge contract with. You're not supposed to take those kind of statements seriously.

James Lowe certainly wanted to play for Ireland but if he'd been given a call up to New Zealand and a huge contract before Ireland capped him he'd have jumped on the plane.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102496#Comment_122102496

This is fair but I’d also add that another equivalence would be NZ fans on a NZ boards equivalent calling 24-year-old JGP “absolutely shite” 8 years ago.

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101982#Comment_122101982

Healy has been the second best Irish produced 10 this year. I don’t think it’s even that close. Healy is the top scorer in the URC by 30 points. The fact that he is stuck behind the consensus best 10 in the 6 nations at Scotland isn’t the slam dunk you think it is.

pickarooney

That consensus doesn't exist on boards though. On boards, Finn Russell is a spoofer, a workshy fop, a self-absorbed fancy Dan, a poor man's Michalak.

mun1

i suppose spouting sh1te about Munster players deflects from your own teams players.

Coming on here, stating that the narrative is to “pile on Farrell” with no substantive posts to support claim and then to state “i stand by my posts” , then state 10 mins later that “you cant hold me to account for my posts from 12 months ago “ when your posts are quoted back to you.

As the ditty goes

“Cos every year without fail, 
The town gets infested with Langers!
Langers, langers 
Ah the town gets infested with Langers!”

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102489#Comment_122102489

Hang on. This is a lot to keep up with.

Suggesting Frisch is so bad

I never said Frisch was a bad player. I said he doesn't feature in the wider scheme of things and he is - at best - seventh in the depth chart for Ireland. That's not my assessment, it's the reality of squad selections. If you consider that to be part of the "wider" scheme of thing, OK, but I did not say what you are claiming I did.

Suggesting Kleyn is so bad

Similarly, I was very surprised that Kleyn got called up by SA, but not because he was "so bad" that it was out of the question, just I thought it was a very unlikely sequence of events. It was unlikely but transpired, I got it wrong, but it wasn't a commentary on Kleyn being a bad player, so again, I didn't say what you're claiming.

So to be honest, you're not being fair to me here and painting me as saying these things is not helpful because it invites other posters to line up and take digs at me.

Which leaves us with Healy. yeah, I said he was sh1te 15 months ago, and you were able to quote me verbatim - not paraphrasing, verbatim - 15 months later, so it obviously upset you to the point where you have it either mentally bookmarked or actually bookmarked, and I'm sorry about that, but you may be taking it (and me) a little seriously.

Do I stand over it? Apart from my choice of emotive language - yes. The guy was just about finding his level as Munster back-up and solid pro, but seeing his name crop up in Ireland conversations as a major miss by Farrell was baffling. If his departure was a blow to Munster's squad depth, OK - but the idea that his exclusion from Ireland squads was any sort of factor is complete nonsense, he's not nearly good enough and nothing I've seen to date has disproved that.

theVersatile

Woke up to thirty new posts in the Munster thread, was hoping to see news that we'd signed a new loosehead or something

But no, just somebody on the wind up working overtime since IO isn't around at the moment.

Fun.

thomas 123

honestly, Frisch was grand, not a world beater. His dream could have well been to play for Ireland. So was mine yet here I am(not playing for Ireland) - it doesn’t matter.

Be happy of the few quid that will hopefully be put to good use and be happy for Frisch who has doubled his money and is hopefully closer to family and friends!

aloooof

@Former Former Former

Nope, not bookmarked. But these are things you have actually said and continue to stand by.

If you’re worried about the sake of accuracy, this:

”he doesn’t feature in the wider scheme of things”.

Isn’t the same as this:

“He has no place in the wider scheme of things.

The latter reads way harsher.

Same thing with Kleyn, such was the extent you thought he wouldn’t get near a SA squad.

The Healy thing speaks for itself.

And these aren’t the only examples; Coombes “can’t do what the coaches want” but Frawley “maybe needs some luck with injuries”.

It’s to your credit that you’ve come back under the same moniker, rather than reg under a different username. Fair play for that.

But as long as you continue to dump on “*all Munster fans” and some of their players in the tenor you do on the one hand, but come out with the above on the other, I’m going to continue to point it out.

15 months ago or otherwise.

*(of which you claim to be one, let’s not forget)

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102523#Comment_122102523

And it will continue to be so as long as he continues to no-show against Irish opposition

Tipp1991

..

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102502#Comment_122102502

8 years ago, JGP was very average. Had talent but was prone to brain farts and stupid decisions. I certainly don't remember him ever being discussed as a future AB as he was so far behind Smith, TJP and Weber. He struggled to nail down a starting spot at the Blues and they were poor. I'm always astounded when I hear him talked about as one of the best in the world now. Shows what a change of environment can do. Frisco may go to Toulon and turn out brilliant.