Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

rayd3

Clegg wrote: »

True. POM is under more pressure than Stander when it comes to their starting slot in green. Carrying was never one of his great strengths, but the things he built his game around, ruck work and lineout ability, haven't been as prevalent over the last 18 months or so.

Pretty safe to say POM isn’t under much pressure unless Leavy comes back 100% since Van Der Flier put in one of the most pathetic displays from an Irish flanker for a long time in the Six Nations in London this year

Clegg

rayd3 wrote: »

Pretty safe to say POM isn’t under much pressure unless Leavy comes back 100% since Van Der Flier put in one of the most pathetic displays from an Irish flanker for a long time in the Six Nations in London this year

Not engaging in a slanging match over performances. Only to say that VDF wasn't anywhere near as bad as you think. POM already lost his starting place for Ireland this year. He was on the bench for the opening fixture and only regained his spot due to Doris's head injury. He's under enormous pressure.

Shefwedfan

rayd3 wrote: »

Pretty safe to say POM isn’t under much pressure unless Leavy comes back 100% since Van Der Flier put in one of the most pathetic displays from an Irish flanker for a long time in the Six Nations in London this year

How would you describe POM performance?

No harm to POM buit he won't make another WC, neither will Stander.

IT was clear Farrell said this was a 6 nations he was going to review after the end of it. Hence why Sexton just had captaincy for 1 season. Looking at the team I think huge numbers are under pressure. Including Sexton and Murray

Our backrow has been s**t now since 2018. Any decent team we come up against and we get hammered. The current setup is not working, whoever is wearing the jersey. They need to look at options

rayd3

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How would you describe POM performance?

Plenty better than Josh’s. That’s how.

rayd3

Clegg wrote: »

Only to say that VDF wasn't anywhere near as bad as you think.

Probably. I’m sure he got an 8/10 in the bindo player ratings.

Shefwedfan

rayd3 wrote: »

Plenty better than Josh’s. That’s how.

Which was still awful :P


Saying a player is less awful than another player is not really what we expect from Ireland. The backrow got its assed handed to it, the only saving grace was Billy V was running at them or it would have been a massacre

rayd3

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Which was still awful :P

I’ve just been reassured it was much better than I think it was, so some good news there.

aloooof

Clegg wrote: »

True. POM is under more pressure than Stander when it comes to their starting slot in green. Carrying was never one of his great strengths, but the things he built his game around, ruck work and lineout ability, haven't been as prevalent over the last 18 months or so.

I don't think that's true tbh. Especially in the lineout (particularly defensively) he's still been superb. For example, in this article from Murray Kinsella:

O’Mahony has won eight jackal turnovers at the breakdown this season, while his 10 lineout steals make him the leading defensive jumper in the squad, leaving him ahead of James Ryan on seven. O’Mahony has also won 28 lineouts this season, which is more than Iain Henderson and only a short way behind Ryan [33].

From the stats in that article, he was also the leading jackaller. Ruck arrival stats are harder to come by, but he was one of the leading players for both defensive and attacking ruck arrivals after the Scotland game.

There are legit reason why someone would not start POM; his ruck work and lineout ability are not amongst them. To me, the truth is stated quite well here, also from that Murray Kinsella article:

Whether Farrell values O’Mahony’s lineout skills and breakdown threat enough to overlook his relative lack of impact in the carry and tackle remains to be seen.

aloooof

The ruck arrival stats for anyone who is interested in that kind of thing:

https://twitter.com/SamLStandsUp/status/1228130803898626048

El_Duderino 09

rayd3 wrote: »

Just because the newspapers decided that was the case doesn’t make it true. CJ was getting dropped after being man of the match against Scotland?

Conan was being given his chance and I think he would have taken it.

Let's not forget that CJ played well against Scotland, CJ played well that day though, no doubt. But it wasn't a performance that guarantees his place in the team. I mean, he was also dropped from no8 in favour of Caelan Dorris in the six nations. I think he'd be more suited to 6 where you probably expect less ball playing skill than at 8.

I really see CJ as a good player but his limitations are too great to make him undroppable. I think his lack of footwork and offload or even variation in his plan with ball in hand, would be a problem for him if he weren't at Munster. Munster do seem to place extra value on running through opposition rather than playing around them. And CJ always tries to run through the opposition so he gets extra kudos from Munster supporters.

El_Duderino 09

Former Former wrote: »

Even when Doris was picked in the first game of the 6N, it was at POM's expense, not Stander's.

Yeah but the experiment was to replace Stander at 8 and try him at 6. And I think he knew he was under threat as he played out of his skin that day. Only got a few minutes at 6 and then back to 8 but played really well. Great to see that effect from competition for his place.

El_Duderino 09

bennyl10 wrote: »

His place was never really under threat, the indo might have thought so,(shocking Indo against a munster player) bit it wasn’t happening

CJ was Ireland best player In Japan, one of the best players in the prior 6Ns.
Conan was due to start a game in the group stage, yes, as rotation is a thing and he is a very talented back row player, but when he’s played international he has show nothing to even give a hint he’s above Cj at test level.

Im not going by what a paper said. I'm looking at what was actually happening in front of us. Conan had a few minturs here and there in the previous 6n and didn't impress. But he went on to have an excellent end to the season with leinster and was almost certainly the form 8 in the country. CJ didn't have a good end to last year. He looked knackered.

Look, nobody has to take it personally when a player from their province isnt playing well and the coach tries out an alternative. I'm in favour of much more change to keep the competition lively. Instead of picking the off form player and waiting for them to regain form, I'd favour picking the form player.

In both cases (Japan game and Scotland 6N game, CJ was dropped from 8 to try out a much younger and more dynamic 8 and he responded by playing a great game. I think it proves the value of never assuming a player should always be picked.

After the world cup, we all talked a good game about picking the in-form players, so that means we have to be willing to drop the out of form players.

Kirk Van Houten

I just look forward to seeing Doris captaining the Lions in a whitewash of South Africa after he has caused CJs move to France.

aloooof

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think Conan would have taken the 8 place from him.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Conan was being given his chance and I think he would have taken it.

This is just pure speculation tho. What we can say as fact tho is that, since CJ established himself in team, he has started every time he has been available against a Tier 1 team.

During the RWC at least, I don't think he was under threat to lose his place; Schmidt was a massive fan. And I'd go as far as saying CJ is underrated by some.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Conan had a few minturs here and there in the previous 6n and didn't impress.

To be fair to Conan, this isn't my recollection at all. Imo, he advanced his case for inclusion more than many other back-rowers during that 6 Nations.

Open to correction but IIRC, pre-tournament, it was generally thought he may miss out on the RWC squad, but by the end of it he had leap-frogged a few and had solidified a place on the plane.

sasta le

TOD maybe a a pay day in France

El_Duderino 09

aloooof wrote: »

This is just pure speculation tho. What we can say as fact tho is that, since CJ established himself in team, he has started every time he has been available against a Tier 1 team.

During the RWC at least, I don't think he was under threat to lose his place; Schmidt was a massive fan. And I'd go as far as saying CJ is underrated by some.



To be fair to Conan, this isn't my recollection at all. Imo, he advanced his case for inclusion more than many other back-rowers during that 6 Nations.

Open to correction but IIRC, pre-tournament, it was generally thought he may miss out on the RWC squad, but by the end of it he had leap-frogged a few and had solidified a place on the plane.

Of course it's speculation. I prefaced it with "I think" in both cases.

CJ certainly has been the main starter since Heaslip. No doubt. He (nor any player) should be considered a definite starter. And when you consider thy fact that he had a period of poor form leading uo to the world cup, I think it's only right tsy Conan was given the chance. As it was a good idea to give Dorris the chance. It's unfortunate that neither was able to play and we have no good basis for comparison.

It's like any other player who has a Jersey fpr a long time. People begin to see them as undroppable. I don't see anyone as undroppable. If another player is equal then I'd always want to mix it up, keep th.om their toes and and share the rest time between them. The idea of CJ coming off the bench for the last 25 mins is a great prospect and shouldn't be seen as a problem. But in the Irish system, the incumbent gets way too much benefit of the doubt.

El_Duderino 09

sasta le wrote: »

TOD maybe a a pay day in France

Poor divil hasn't had any luck with injuries. He was the form 7 in Ireland at one point. Did he start ahead of SOB at one time in a big 6N match before getting another terrible injury?

El_Duderino 09

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

I just look forward to seeing Doris captaining the Lions in a whitewash of South Africa after he has caused CJs move to France.

Would you indeed?

I'd like to see Doris, CJ and Conan fight tooth and nail to be the best 8 in the country and push each other to improve. So whoever gets the 8 Jersey, they're in top form and always improving.

But suit yourself.

Caranica

In all Munster news, today's Red Letter says we'll have info next week on Season Tickets and plans for the future:

Dear member,

We have been working hard over the past number of weeks to develop what we believe to be the best plan for our members for season 20/21 and we look forward to sharing this with you in the coming week.

We are also continuing to work on all options with regards to credits and refunds regarding 19/20 fixtures impacted by the COVID-19 crisis.

In ensuring we can make the process as easy as possible for you, we also expect to be in a position to confirm the details of this in the coming week.

Thank you for your support.

rayd3

Users here hoping an Irish International moves to France. Wow. Classy.

Shefwedfan

rayd3 wrote: »

Users here hoping an Irish International moves to France. Wow. Classy.

If a player who hasnt been on a central contract and has always been a great servent to Irish rugby gets the chance of a few years in the sun in France on good money which would help with his retirement then I would expect every fan in Ireland would wish him well.......

Burkie1203

rayd3 wrote: »

Users here hoping an Irish International moves to France. Wow. Classy.

nobody is saying that

The reality is though, we could lose players in the next 12-18 months as the IRFU face serious financial challenges in that time.

Philip Browne has spoken this week about how "no Internationals in Autumn is an issue for the union" and if there is "no 6n in spring 2021, it is serious trouble for the union"

He then spoke about how the IRFU will face challenges paying wages in about 3 months time. There is about 40% of the players currently under contract with the IRFU who will be negotiating with the Union in the next 6-8 months for new deals. The likelihood is the 20% pay cut that are pretty much going to have to be implemented over the summer will be followed by offers which will probably be a further 20% drop out of necessity, so losing a few players is POSSIBLE.

thomond2006

TOD and Holland are likely in their final year at Munster. Holland will be turning 36 at the end of his contract and you'd hope Thomas Ahern will take his spot. TOD will be 34 and has an extensive record of injuries and again you'd hope someone like Hodnett can replace him.

rayd3

Burkie1203 wrote: »

nobody is saying that

Van Houten’s literal word “looking forward to”

Burkie1203

rayd3 wrote: »

Van Houten’s literal word “looking forward to”

think you need to take lessons in english .......

rayd3

Burkie1203 wrote: »

think you need to take lessons in english .......

Fluent myself actually. But best of luck. Don’t want to derail the forum discussing if someone saying they look forward to something means they’re look forward to something. Semantics, a real son of a...

sasta le

thomond2006 wrote: »

TOD and Holland are likely in their final year at Munster. Holland will be turning 36 at the end of his contract and you'd hope Thomas Ahern will take his spot. TOD will be 34 and has an extensive record of injuries and again you'd hope someone like Hodnett can replace him.

So good time for them to cash in

thomond2006

sasta le wrote: »

So good time for them to cash in

Now? I doubt it.

Faugheen

bennyl10 wrote: »

His place was never really under threat, the indo might have thought so,(shocking Indo against a munster player) bit it wasn’t happening.

Of all the things, the Indo bit in brackets is the most baffling. They are a major sponsor of Munster’s yet you think they have this agenda against them?

thomond2006

Criticism of Munster sells.