New neighbour applies for permission for monstrous extension - without telling us

Mrs Shuttleworth

steinbock123 wrote: »

I thought a boundary wall was only allowed to be 2 metres or so high ??

That's what I thought also.

My understanding is that if you want excessive heights on an extension that there is a minimum distance between the extension and boundary depending on the extension's proposed height.

I'm going to contact a professional as many of you have suggested.

demanufactured

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Hi, I'd appreciate any comments on my situation.

We are living in a 1940s war era semi-d. Looking at our house beside the non-joined property to the left, the two garages adjoin at the front, two passageways then adjoin behind the garages, both of which then lead into the respective gardens.

We have lived there for many years and always got on great with the neighbour who sadly died two years ago.

The house was sold last October and there was hardly a sight of the new owners. We caught a glimpse of them one day and they said hello then dropped in a Christmas card with their mobile numbers at Xmas to which we replied. All fine and ok so far. No further sight of them since then.

Last Wednesday I got a text message from the wifey telling me that a "site notice" had gone up for "a rear extension".

Having some experience in the area of property, I looked up the plans on the DCC website.

I was horrified to see that they plan demolishing the passageway on their side and building a 20 foot wall right up adjacent to the boundary which will block out all the light entering our kitchen, breakfast room and converted passageway which is used as a conservatory. By way of contrast the Trump Wall is only ten feet higher!

This wall would then join across their new kitchen to create a new master bedroom and en suite with a flat roof, above eaves level of the main house roof and have floor to ceiling windows at the front facing the main road. The edifice would then turn to the right, be filled out right to the boundary with us down the garden, have a master bedroom facing into the back garden with floor to ceiling windows and sliding doors and a terrace. These windows/doors would then peer directly into my own extension at the back.

The protruding master bedroom would then block and overshadow the light coming into my garden terrace adjacent to the back of my house and block off the light entering the rear bedrooms of our house and our view (we can currently see as far as the Spire).

They are also planning a chimney stack beside my wall sitting on top of their new kitchen, which will extend to the height of the main house itself. What the hell is that for?

I am absolutely furious that this was carried out with no consultation or notification to us.

I have heard varying arguments that there is no "right to light" but surely building a 20 foot wall right up against the wall and roof glass of my passageway cannot be permitted?

I need a drink.

Mrs S

Lodge an objection?

Mrs Shuttleworth

demanufactured wrote: »

Lodge an objection?

Mods: My thread might be better moved to Construction and Planning.

Mrs S

Effects

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

The key issue is the construction of the 20 foot wall at the boundary. That's only ten feet shorter than the Trump Wall!

What's that got to do with anything?

radharc

Piper Stale Mudslide wrote: »

Yes you are very wrong. They dont have to tell you anything. Just object if you not happy.

That’s why the OP said ‘as a courtesy’. Nobody is saying the neighbor was legally obliged to discuss the plans. But it was extremely rude not to have done so.

In the wind

steinbock123 wrote: »

I thought a boundary wall was only allowed to be 2 metres or so high ??

Yea, 20 foot sounds wrong, there might be grounds for objection based on contravention of planning law right there. Look it up...

Mrs Shuttleworth

Effects wrote: »

What's that got to do with anything?

By way of illustration how high it will be as a boundary wall on a row of semi-ds in a Dublin suburb.

L1011

Two story extensions beside gardens are allowed and indeed fairly common; this provides a wall that height - its part of the building. So that alone isn't going to be something that prevents it getting planning.

The 2m rule is for exempted development of a boundary wall that isn't part of a building, e.g. to replace a fence without needing to get planning. Higher walls can be built with planning permission.

gizmo555

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

By way of illustration how high it will be as a boundary wall on a row of semi-ds in a Dublin suburb.

If it's literally a boundary wall, then presumably building it will need some incursion onto your property.

Apart from objecting to the planning application, couldn't you refuse permission to enter your property and, if necessary, dig out a foundation, etc.?

Mrs Shuttleworth

L1011 wrote: »

Two story extensions beside gardens are allowed and indeed fairly common; this provides a wall that height - its part of the building. So that alone isn't going to be something that prevents it getting planning.

The 2m rule is for exempted development of a boundary wall that isn't part of a building, e.g. to replace a fence without needing to get planning. Higher walls can be built with planning permission.

That is correct but in this case they are bringing the external wall of the extension right across their access passageway and up to the boundary wall passageway with me. In effect they will be somewhat effecting a "terracing" of my property.

There should still be minimum distances from the boundary accordingly.

Mrs Shuttleworth

gizmo555 wrote: »

If it's literally a boundary wall, then presumably building it will need some incursion onto your property.

Apart from objecting to the planning application, couldn't you refuse permission to enter your property and, if necessary, dig out a foundation, etc.?

A friend with some building knowledge told me this morning that they will need to gain access from my side to render and finish at least.

This is why consultation would have been better at the outset than going bullheaded on their part.

pc7

We are planning an extension and will call to our neighbours either side (one connected, one not) to advise them of our plans as you say as a courtesy. Its a pity they didn't do this for you, but going by the plans they probably could guess the reaction. Get proper sound advice and lodge your complaint. Not the greatest of start with a new neighbour but such is life. Hopefully they scale down the plans and it isn't as intrusive to you.

Call me Al

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Because they're building at the boundary wall up to 20 feet? Common courtesy dictates you would alert your neighbour to such.

They don't have to do anything other than what the law and regs. say they have to do.

Courtesy has nothing to do it, common or otherwise.
You are going to gave to park outrage and emotion at the lack of their informal consultation and stick to the hard facts. How will this impact your property, and why you feel it isn't appropriate. That's all the planners will be concerned with.

Gumbo

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

That's what I thought also.

My understanding is that if you want excessive heights on an extension that there is a minimum distance between the extension and boundary depending on the extension's proposed height.

I'm going to contact a professional as many of you have suggested.

The 2m rule is only for exempted works.

No minimum distance to boundaries required.

abcabc123123

Get an architect to do the submission for you. They'll know all the regs and can form the objection appropriately.

I really don't get people who do stuff like this (ignore their neighbours and then go for major construction without talking it over). Serious lack of cop on. Get your neighbours onside, you'll be stuck living next to them for long enough. Building up goodwill costs nothing.

Thoie

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Much appreciated. I will informally approach them and tell them I will be objecting, and will have to do so because they didn't consult with me in the first instance.

I agree with you they in all likelihood didn't want to draw my attention to the content in as far as possible.

They are not living in the house and (apparently) are not selling their existing house.

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Just to make it clear I have zero difficulty with them developing the house.

The key issue is the construction of the 20 foot wall at the boundary. That's only ten feet shorter than the Trump Wall!

This is why people are saying stick to the facts, and leave your feelings out of things. It sounds purely from how you're posting here like your nose is out of joint because they didn't invite you over for a cup of coffee and go through the plans with you.

You're objecting because a 20ft wall seems unreasonable, out of character for the area, and will adversely impact your property. Whether or not they discussed it with you, whether or not it is higher/shorter than the Berlin Wall, Trump's Wall, The Great Wall of China is irrelevant.

As other people have suggested, getting a professional to lodge the objection for you seems sensible. They will stick to facts that the planners can use to make decisions, rather than getting distracted by hyperbole.

Cuddlesworth

Long road, lots of metal fencing in the front garden, backs onto a large green area for a school?

The style of extension could probably be blocked. But if its the house I think it is, the extension 2 doors down would be of a similar type, 2 story out the rear of the house. And the extension next door is two story over the garage. Only difference is this is both to the side and out the back.

Are you sure its not new neighbours again? The house I'm looking at went sale agreed recently.

TheBlock

pc7 wrote: »

We are planning an extension and will call to our neighbours either side (one connected, one not) to advise them of our plans as you say as a courtesy. Its a pity they didn't do this for you, but going by the plans they probably could guess the reaction. Get proper sound advice and lodge your complaint. Not the greatest of start with a new neighbour but such is life. Hopefully they scale down the plans and it isn't as intrusive to you.

I done this when building my own extension (much Smaller than the one mentioned in the OP). Received no negative feedback from any neighbour in fact got some positive input from some neighbours.

Roll on planning and I find that my next door neighbour had actually objected but never indicated any issues to me. Planning was granted as there objection wasn't valid however me being a good neighbour took into account there issues and amended plans to ensure cordial relationship. Feckers stoppped talking to us and moved out a year later!!! If I'd have known that was going to happen I would have gone with our original plans and had a much nicer extension!!!

Moral of the Story - Don't be too nice either!!

Effects

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

By way of illustration how high it will be as a boundary wall on a row of semi-ds in a Dublin suburb.

I don't think the wall Trump is building is that high really, and it's just to stop people. You neighbours is a lot lower in comparison.

seamus

TheBlock wrote: »

I done this when building my own extension (much Smaller than the one mentioned in the OP). Received no negative feedback from any neighbour in fact got some positive input from some neighbours.

Roll on planning and I find that my next door neighbour had actually objected but never indicated any issues to me. Planning was granted as there objection wasn't valid however me being a good neighbour took into account there issues and amended plans to ensure cordial relationship. Feckers stoppped talking to us and moved out a year later!!! If I'd have known that was going to happen I would have gone with our original plans and had a much nicer extension!!!

Moral of the Story - Don't be too nice either!!

We didn't need to apply for permission, but got the neighbours onboard anyway because we needed to build on one of the boundary walls.

All good at the time, no problem. "It'll be noisy, but it's only for a few weeks".

She did nothing but fncking whinge. Text messages asking why the builders were making so much noise. Passive-aggressive comments about damage done to the grass outside the houses (It grows back you fncking idiot). Accomplished absolutely fncking nothing except to poison any semblance of a friendly relationship we had. Now it's very much just a Nod-and-hello greeting.

Neighbour on the other side had arguably more reason to be frosty and they were just upfront and honest with us about it, and we still get on great with them.

In short, any building work is probably going to do some level of damage to your relationship with your neighbours. Unless you would invite them to your wedding, keep the communications formal and serious. Don't be too nice or too snotty. They'll get over it eventually.

Gumbo

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

A friend with some building knowledge told me this morning that they will need to gain access from my side to render and finish at least.

This is why consultation would have been better at the outset than going bullheaded on their part.

Well, if you don't gain them access to render the wall, you are the one looking at exposed blocks, not them. Its in your interest to let them render the wall correctly.

Effects

gizmo555 wrote: »

If it's literally a boundary wall, then presumably building it will need some incursion onto your property.

Apart from objecting to the planning application, couldn't you refuse permission to enter your property and, if necessary, dig out a foundation, etc.?

They would have needed permission from the OP if it was a new boundary wall.
The don't need to access the neighbours property to do the foundation.

Simple_Simone

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Just to make it clear I have zero difficulty with them developing the house.

The key issue is the construction of the 20 foot wall at the boundary. That's only ten feet shorter than the Trump Wall!

Your obsession with the height of the so-called Trump Wall is beginning to worry me!

The Millennium Spire on O'Connell Street is 394 feet high, and your neighbour's proposed wall is a mere 5% of that height.

Eric Cartman

so excluding your side 'conservatory' how far back beyond the rear of your house does this plan go, it seems like the detached side of their house being alongside the detached side of yours will have pretty much no impact on you, its only the rear extension second storey that might.

Mrs Shuttleworth

Eric Cartman wrote: »

so excluding your side 'conservatory' how far back beyond the rear of your house does this plan go, it seems like the detached side of their house being alongside the detached side of yours will have pretty much no impact on you, its only the rear extension second storey that might.

Yes that's it. It's the rear and side extension second storey that's the problem on my side. It will effectively "fill in" all the way to my glass roof and the full length of it.

On the other side to the other neighbour, he'll be affected less but still somewhat. A large chimney stack (why??) to the top of the roof is planned for the middle of the house and sitting alongside the new bedroom which will protrude prominently out from the rear wall.

mariaalice

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Yes that's it. It's the rear and side extension second storey that's the problem on my side. It will effectively "fill in" all the way to my glass roof and the full length of it.

On the other side to the other neighbour, he'll be affected less but still somewhat. A large chimney stack (why??) to the top of the roof is planned for the middle of the house and sitting alongside the new bedroom which will protrude prominently out from the rear wall.

They won't get planning permission for that, to be polite and friendly and tell them you are objecting to this because of how it will impact on you, but also tell them you do not have any objections to any extension that won't impact on you keep things as friendly as possible as you have to live next door to each other.

pwurple

I imagine a chimney stack is going to be there, because they will have a fireplace. That's normal enough, no? We put in a chimney stack.

For what it's worth, we discussed our planning application with all our neighbours. All fine, happy out, except one set, who were apoplectic about it. They objected, as is within their rights, but all objections were ignored, not upheld, because the language they used in the objection was histrionic (ala Trump wall here), not based in any law or planning guideline. They did continue to make things as awkward as they could throughout our build, blocking access to our driveway for suppliers etc, but sure, we got there in the end. Builder was well used to it, water off a ducks back.

Effects

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

It will effectively "fill in" all the way to my glass roof and the full length of it.

Would it be an opportunity to also raise the level of your glass roof? It's the side passage you closed in, right? Usually when that's done, the height isn't great as it's dictated by the wall between you both.

Effects

mariaalice wrote: »

Ttell them you do not have any objections to any extension that won't impact on you keep things as friendly as possible as you have to live next door to each other.

It depends on what the objections are based on. They may well be within their rights to add an extension that still impacts on the neighbour.

mariaalice

Effects wrote: »

It depends on what the objections are based on. They may well be within their rights to add an extension that still impacts on the neighbour.

Of course, but what the OP is describing sounds way out of proportion to the actual house and surrounding housing.