Galway's traffic issues

Mrs OBumble

xckjoo wrote: »

They aren't cars. We have different sets of rules for them (contra flows, bus lanes, bike lanes, etc). A bit of extra distance isn't an issue on a bike though. Elevation changes are a much bigger challenge. Most people I've met that cycle commute already take longer routes to avoid things like hills and dangerous parts of the road. Not too many trikes out there....

PS thanks to nox for perfectly demonstrating what I was talking about with intuition vs fact backed information

Thanks for missing the point yourself.

"Bike lanes" misses the point that the nature of cycling is changing. We need to think more widely, because the very.meaning of "bikes" is changing.

Bicycles are not allowed to go contra flow on one way streets in Galway. There is legal provision to allow this but so far the council have chosen not to use it - thankfully.

I know of two three-wheelers regularly used in Galway. Likely there are others.

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Thanks for missing the point yourself.

"Bike lanes" misses the point that the nature of cycling is changing. We need to think more widely, because the very.meaning of "bikes" is changing.

Bicycles are not allowed to go contra flow on one way streets in Galway. There is legal provision to allow this but so far the council have chosen not to use it - thankfully.

I know of two three-wheelers regularly used in Galway. Likely there are others.

I've no idea what you're getting at and I cycle daily. You're arguing that we can't bring in one ways because of bikes and the like, yet at the same time saying the way they are being used is completely changing. Electric bikes eliminate the issues of distance and hills so that goes against your point. There's provision for contra flow bike lanes so they can be brought in if needs be. You just seem to be against any changes because they are changes

Storm 10

Cemetery cross is a car park they are cutting down trees at the Cemetery why this time of day bloody lunancy

Ashleigh1986

Sure yet again storm that's more if it .
They wait until a Friday to do it .
During the week it was the burst pipe that hadn't obviously been fixed properly .
I keep saying it
" GALWAY IS A CITY BEEN RUN BY IDIOTS THAT COULDNT RUN A VILLAGE "

Snow Garden

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Sure yet again storm that's more if it .
They wait until a Friday to do it .
During the week it was the burst pipe that hadn't obviously been fixed properly .
I keep saying it
" GALWAY IS A CITY BEEN RUN BY IDIOTS THAT COULDNT RUN A VILLAGE "

I worked in the council for a brief period in the 2000s and you wouldn't believe the chaos and incompetence in there. It's an art form actually.

Ashleigh1986

Snow Garden wrote: »

I worked in the council for a brief period between in the 2000s and you wouldn't believe the chaos and incompetence in there. It's an art form actually.

I see it every day snow garden.
Clowns in charge of clowns .
Nothing surprises me anymore regarding the muppets that run this city.
Fiasco after fiasco .
They wouldn't last one week in the private sector .

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

"Bike lanes" misses the point that the nature of cycling is changing. We need to think more widely, because the very.meaning of "bikes" is changing.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2019/apr/26/if-you-build-them-they-will-come-record-year-for-cycle-counters?CMP=share_btn_tw
"
Cycle lanes are one of the most efficient and healthiest ways of moving people. A single bike lane can transport five times as many people as a motor traffic lane, without the air and noise pollution. This is good news for everyone, whether you drive, walk or cycle – or breathe.
"

Mrs OBumble

what_traffic wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2019/apr/26/if-you-build-them-they-will-come-record-year-for-cycle-counters?CMP=share_btn_tw
"
Cycle lanes are one of the most efficient and healthiest ways of moving people. A single bike lane can transport five times as many people as a motor traffic lane, without the air and noise pollution. This is good news for everyone, whether you drive, walk or cycle – or breathe.
"

I totally support having dedicated lanes for low-powered two and three wheelers (bicycles, tricycles, eBikes, scooters etc) - provided they're grade-separated from pedestrians and cars and buses, and don't impede bus-stops and bus-shelters. Ideally I'd like to see them on separate tracks to the left of footpaths, or in the central median space. I also support allocating *some" current car-parking areas for such vehicles.

Because they're healthy. Because they reduce the amount of road space needed to move people around on wheels. And because there are enough pepole who want to use them for jouirneys that aren't walkable to make it worth catering for them.

But calling such things "bike lanes" is like calling quality public-transport corridors "bus lanes". It misses the point about the evolving nature of the vehicles (Galway Glider sounds so much nicer than Gluas!), and about the essential nature of what is included.


Oh .. and seeing as I'm calling for names: streets where I believe we should prioritise having low-powered lanes: Dublin Rd, Monivea Rd, Parkmore Rd, Doughiska Rd, Ballybane Rd, Salthill, Headford Rd. Not necessarily in that order - but the first two are places where buses I'm in are regularly held up by bicycles.

what_traffic

xckjoo wrote: »

There's provision for contra flow bike lanes so they can be brought in if needs be.

Have been in the last two City Development plans - but we still wait.....

zell12

The road surface above the 'fixed' water main at Bodkin junction is falling in.
Another fixture imminent.
:pac:

I'm going to bet: Friday of a sunny bank holiday weekend at 4pm

Ashleigh1986

Zell12 ... Same as eglinton street from brown Thomas down to courthouse .

zell12

Ruling on proposed Galway ring road is postponed
An oral hearing, lasting several weeks, will take place in the city soon

?Cee?view

zell12 wrote: »

Ruling on proposed Galway ring road is postponed
An oral hearing, lasting several weeks, will take place in the city soon

It's becoming a nightmare. Just like years ago when the same type of flat earthers did everything they could to stop Mutton Island

what_traffic

?Cee?view wrote: »

It's becoming a nightmare. Just like years ago when the same type of flat earthers did everything they could to stop Mutton Island

Why only Nightmare now?
Mutton Island is a not a bad example at all. But I am going to flip it as it has parallels here. Mutton Island has been a huge failure really from a Civil Engineering perspective. Cannot expand to accommodate growing City. City needs to build another waste treatment plant as a result.

xckjoo

?Cee?view wrote: »

It's becoming a nightmare. Just like years ago when the same type of flat earthers did everything they could to stop Mutton Island

It's not going to fix anything. Building more roads has been proven time and time again that it causes a greater increase in the volumes of traffic in the area. No getting around it. It's already been a monumental waste of money and will be an even greater one if it goes ahead. But people can't think beyond more roads=more better so I generally don't bother arguing the point.

?Cee?view

xckjoo wrote: »

r so I generally don't bother arguing the point.

Thanks!

xckjoo

?Cee?view wrote: »

Thanks!

For what?

?Cee?view

xckjoo wrote: »

For what?

for not bothering to argue the point

youngrun

?Cee?view wrote: »

It's becoming a nightmare. Just like years ago when the same type of flat earthers did everything they could to stop Mutton Island

Due process needs to be followed
Building a road without proper public transport activation measures and routing right through many established city suburbs and scenic areas is always going to create debate and potential opposition ,
In the meantime the relevant authorities should immediately work on additional PT works such as Park and Ride, Tuam Road bus corridor, and the 2 greenways ( Moycullen Galway, Barna Galway ) as transport options with monthly targets for activation.

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

It's not going to fix anything. Building more roads has been proven time and time again that it causes a greater increase in the volumes of traffic in the area. No getting around it. It's already been a monumental waste of money and will be an even greater one if it goes ahead. But people can't think beyond more roads=more better so I generally don't bother arguing the point.

If you can’t see how vital the bypass is you are either blinded by your anti-car opinions or have a very poor understanding of galways traffic.

It is one of the single most important and vital things neeeded for the county and city for many many years.

It should be fast tracked as an emergeeny requirement and exempted from the majority of buracuracry that will hold it up.

Storm 10

Galway City traffic is a nightmare, like posters have said the bypass is an urgent requirement to solve the traffic going from East to West and vice versa, Dublin, Cork and Limerick have Tunnels and they have had massive improvements in their traffic, nothing compares to the traffic situation in Galway and anyone that says its not required is leading a very sheltered life or just does not care what is happening here.

cgcsb

Storm 10 wrote: »

Galway City traffic is a nightmare, like posters have said the bypass is an urgent requirement to solve the traffic going from East to West and vice versa, Dublin, Cork and Limerick have Tunnels and they have had massive improvements in their traffic, nothing compares to the traffic situation in Galway and anyone that says its not required is leading a very sheltered life or just does not care what is happening here.

Or perhaps they do care and just have a more enlightened view.

jjpep

So there is plenty of evidence that building more roads leads to more traffic congestion ie. it doesn't fix the problem, it makes it worse.

If you're interested here is some reading:

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/09/citylab-university-induced-demand/569455/

https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/

https://www.citymetric.com/transport/does-building-more-roads-create-more-traffic-934

What some of these touch on is that new roads still get built but these are political decisions based on what people think they want rather than evidence or data driven. In other words we're going to waste more than a half a billion euros and probably another ten years before an actual solution is looked at because peoples feelings, opinions, 'commonsense' etc is given more credence than evidence and data.

xckjoo

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

If you can’t see how vital the bypass is you are either blinded by your anti-car opinions or have a very poor understanding of galways traffic.

It is one of the single most important and vital things neeeded for the county and city for many many years.

It should be fast tracked as an emergeeny requirement and exempted from the majority of buracuracry that will hold it up.

Oh yes. I forgot we are all special snowflakes in Galway where the normal rules don't apply. Never mind that every single bit of research reaches the conclusion that it's at best not needed and at worst going to increase traffic jams. Nox has a feeling though. That's why should spend millions, bypass all regulations and dig up and pave over half the countryside.

beardybrewer

Storm 10 wrote: »

Galway City traffic is a nightmare...

It honestly negatively impacts the quality of life of many of its residents.

I think it can make us not bother with lots of not strictly necessary trips (like the gym, a class, running an errand to local shops) when you only get a few hours of free time a day. Do I want to waste my time with traffic? I'm becoming a hermit who relies on Amazon deliveries rather than bother shopping in the town I live in. 45 minutes, if you're lucky, to drive from one side of town to the other is miserable. I've said it before about the school enrolment process, proximity to your local school should matter and would help take cars off the road when kids go to local schools.

I understand and reject the simplistic argument that more roads = more cars so no difference. This is basic infrastructure because we're still 30 years behind the rest of europe. Ffs, we only just got a motorway to Dublin! I don't see the motorway stuffed to the hilt just because, god forbid, we build a road. Galway needs a bypass to keep that traffic out altogether.

xckjoo

beardybrewer wrote: »

It honestly negatively impacts the quality of life of many of its residents.

I think it can make us not bother with lots of not strictly necessary trips (like the gym, a class, running an errand to local shops) when you only get a few hours of free time a day. Do I want to waste my time with traffic? I'm becoming a hermit who relies on Amazon deliveries rather than bother shopping in the town I live in. 45 minutes, if you're lucky, to drive from one side of town to the other is miserable. I've said it before about the school enrolment process, proximity to your local school should matter and would help take cars off the road when kids go to local schools.

I understand and reject the simplistic argument that more roads + more cars = no difference. This is basic infrastructure because we're still 30 years behind the rest of europe. Ffs, we only just got a motorway to Dublin! I don't see the motorway stuffed to the hilt just because, god forbid, we build a road. Galway needs a bypass to keep that traffic out altogether.

But there's only a small percentage of cars make the journey that the bypass covers. Something like 3%. There's also no major population areas west of the river so it's not like (for example) the Athlone bypass that people use going to/from Dublin.

Honestly lads, if I thought it would help at all I'd be all for it. If only to stop hearing everyone moan about it and moan about traffic

Edit: Crap, I accidentally ended up in discussion about it after my earlier statement. I'm bowing out here

McGiver

xckjoo wrote:

But there's only a small percentage of cars make the journey that the bypass covers. Something like 3%. There's also no major population areas west of the river so it's not like (for example) the Athlone bypass that people use going to/from Dublin.

Very fair point. West of Galway City is essentially a wasteland, bog area. I know there are villages there and An Gaeltacht residents will excuse me. The overall population density of Co. Galway is something like 35/sq. km which is ridiculous in continental European standards and density West of Galway City must be even lower, so who will be going there exactly, who is going to be bypassing and what? And all that for 600M quid? Cui bono?

Building three bridges across the Corrib, one way system in town, and either a tunnel or a bridge between Roscam and town would help much more at lower cost, if we want to focus on road building at all.

what_traffic

McGiver wrote: »

Very fair point. West of Galway City is essentially a wasteland, bog area. I know there are villages there and An Gaeltacht residents will excuse me. The overall population density of Co. Galway is something like 35/sq. km which is ridiculous in continental European standards and density West of Galway City must be even lower, so who will be going there exactly, who is going to be bypassing and what? And all that for 600M quid? Cui bono?

Building three bridges across the Corrib, one way system in town, and either a tunnel or a bridge between Roscam and town would help much more at lower cost, if we want to focus on road building at all.

One mans wasteland is another's carbon sink. Could be valuable land down the line....
Your argument is sound though - people from Co Galway do not want to bypass Galway City - they want to get into Galway City.
The Population Density of the present Galway City is poor as well. Don't even need to compare against a European City. Compare against itself historically.

gordongekko

West of Galway is a waste land??. Its not like the People west of the river actually need to cross it the river. They of course should all be forced into the city!!!!. People on the east of the river also have no need to access the West of the river.!!!! God forbid someone should live on one side of the river and work on the other side of it. Sure its all a waste land

McGiver

gordongekko wrote:

West of Galway is a waste land??. Its not like the People west of the river actually need to cross it the river. They of course should all be forced into the city!!!!. People on the east of the river also have no need to access the West of the river.!!!! God forbid someone should live on one side of the river and work on the other side of it. Sure its all a waste land

No offence intended but by wasteland I meant very low population density, which is a fact however you want to spin it...
I don't disagree with the access argument of yours but last time I looked I've seen several roads going from the west to the east on the map. Who do you need more roads for? There's no density.

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

But there's only a small percentage of cars make the journey that the bypass covers. Something like 3%. There's also no major population areas west of the river so it's not like (for example) the Athlone bypass that people use going to/from Dublin.

The lines of traffic morning and evening are not going into the city Centre so that stat is flawed by considering areas outside the city as being in the city city Centre if it is even true to begin with. I would guess that it is also playing with the numbers and only considering people who make the entire journey and ignores the people who would make partial journeys which is really where the road will be of massive benefit, but the anti-car brigade will do what ever they can to hold back the city it appears from this vital piece of infrastructure.

Traffic crossing from west to east and east to west of the city in the mornings would massively benefit from the bypass, everyone working in parkmore etc would benefit, people coming in from the Headford and Tuam directions would benefit as they could join the road to get to destinations on the west or east of the city and subarbs without going near the city and getting caught up in traffic that does want to be in the city Centre. Same for cars wanting to get down the Dublin motorway or Oranmore etc wanting to get to the west of the city.

gordongekko

McGiver wrote: »

No offence intended but by wasteland I meant very low population density, which is a fact however you want to spin it....

There are in the region of 50000 people living and working in a 5square mile radius of the planned bridge. This is not a low population density area

Johnny_BravoIII

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

If you can’t see how vital the bypass is you are either blinded by your anti-car opinions or have a very poor understanding of galways traffic.

It is one of the single most important and vital things neeeded for the county and city for many many years.

It should be fast tracked as an emergeeny requirement and exempted from the majority of buracuracry that will hold it up.

It's like the guy who turns up to the doctor for his 3rd heart bypass.
At some point he has to look at diet and excercise.

Since the foundation of the state we have not done "planning".
This bypass will not only ruin some beautiful countryside close to the city which acts as a great amenity to locals, but it will also serve to blow the population out across a futher area blighting the landscape with more bloody bungalows.

The M50 did not fix Dublin's traffic issues, it only served to trap people in houses in the midlands getting up at 5.30 am to make the 1.5 to 2 hour journey to the city centre.

This is not a life we should be selling people into. The purpose of leadership is to lead. There is a better way.

With good planning and investment in public transport we can solve our traffic issues and increase the quality of the lives of our citizens.

JCX BXC

Exactly, so let's use your analogy of looking at your diet, and look at our planning. Roads don't dictate the building of houses, planning does.

what_traffic

McGiver wrote: »

No offence intended but by wasteland I meant very low population density, which is a fact however you want to spin it...
I don't disagree with the access argument of yours but last time I looked I've seen several roads going from the west to the east on the map. Who do you need more roads for? There's no density.

None taken (was raised in that area) - understood was in relation to density. Vast interior in Connemara; practically nobody lives there. Along the Coast, Moycullen and Oughterard is where people live. Lets sort out public transport from Moycullen and Spiddal.

McGiver

gordongekko wrote:

There are in the region of 50000 people living and working in a 5square mile radius of the planned bridge. This is not a low population density area

Are you including Galway City into this? That can't be West Co. Galway.

If true this would mean density 7812/sq. km which I can tell you is a total nonsense, because Dublin City density is 4800/sq km.

Galway County as a whole has a density of 42/sq. km.

Mrs OBumble

McGiver wrote: »

Are you including Galway City into this? That can't be West Co. Galway.

If true this would mean density 7812/sq. km which I can tell you is a total nonsense, because Dublin City density is 4800/sq km.

Galway County as a whole has a density of 42/sq. km.

I think the trick is in "and working". NUIG and UGH-Newcastle are within that radius, and employ a lot of people who live elsewhere.

Galway roads daily serve lots of non-Galway people. Also enormous numbers come, go through a small part of the city (Headford or Parkmore roads) and then exit the city again to work in Parkmore. They don't show up in the stats, because they aren't city residents or workers.

gordongekko

McGiver wrote: »

Are you including Galway City into this? That can't be West Co. Galway.

If true this would mean density 7812/sq. km which I can tell you is a total nonsense, because Dublin City density is 4800/sq km.

Galway County as a whole has a density of 42/sq. km.

This is where your argument falls down. The people of Annaghdown or Cleggan wont be the main users of the bridge. The 50000 people who have need to travel the route on a regular basis are the target market. The people who live west of the river don't consider themselves to be part of a wasteland. The main hospital and university arent build on wasteland. The people of newcastle, knocknacrra, Rahoon, Dangan, Salthill Terryland, Wellpark, Ballybane aren't part of a wasteland.

zell12

gordongekko wrote: »

This is where your argument falls down. ...
The people of newcastle, knocknacrra, Rahoon, Dangan, Salthill Terryland, Wellpark, Ballybane aren't part of a wasteland.

I thought it was a bypass
but it is clearly a fourth bridge for Galway to open up land for development

gordongekko

zell12 wrote: »

I thought it was a bypass
but it is clearly a fourth bridge for Galway to open up land for development

That's also not in the planning documents. So you are also trying to create a reason for not building the road based on a reason that's not being made to build the road

what_traffic

gordongekko wrote: »

This is where your argument falls down. The people of Annaghdown or Cleggan wont be the main users of the bridge. The 50000 people who have need to travel the route on a regular basis are the target market. The people who live west of the river don't consider themselves to be part of a wasteland. The main hospital and university arent build on wasteland. The people of newcastle, knocknacrra, Rahoon, Dangan, Salthill Terryland, Wellpark, Ballybane aren't part of a wasteland.

This is where your argument died.

McGiver

gordongekko wrote:

This is where your argument falls down. The people of Annaghdown or Cleggan wont be the main users of the bridge. The 50000 people who have need to travel the route on a regular basis are the target market. The people who live west of the river don't consider themselves to be part of a wasteland. The main hospital and university arent build on wasteland. The people of newcastle, knocknacrra, Rahoon, Dangan, Salthill Terryland, Wellpark, Ballybane aren't part of a wasteland.

I.e. Intra City traffic. A bit expensive for that purpose. And Galway City doesn't have the density you suggested, it's several times lower.

Some data to digest

24,000 people commute to and from Galway city every day

https://galwaydaily.com/news/24000-people-commute-to-and-from-galway-city-every-day/

Some caveats

1. It's Vodafone users only
2. It's 4g users only
3. It doesn't factor in mode of transport

The pdf file linked below gives the network figures for 2016 (newest I could find) so from those it's possible to extrapolate a more realistic figure. I just don't have time to try calculate it so someone else might have a go

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.comreg.ie/media/dlm_uploads/2017/03/ComReg-1715r.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj7rPGt-Z3iAhV7VBUIHajWCFEQFjALegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1E72tqOhJ0gSBaz83qKllP

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Some data to digest



Some caveats

1. It's Vodafone users only
2. It's 4g users only
3. It doesn't factor in mode of transport

The pdf file linked below gives the network figures for 2016 (newest I could find) so from those it's possible to extrapolate a more realistic figure. I just don't have time to try calculate it so someone else might have a go

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.comreg.ie/media/dlm_uploads/2017/03/ComReg-1715r.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj7rPGt-Z3iAhV7VBUIHajWCFEQFjALegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1E72tqOhJ0gSBaz83qKllP

Presumably it counts Parkmore as the city. Making it more useful than many other datasets.

Anyone know what Vodafone's market share is?

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Presumably it counts Parkmore as the city. Making it more useful than many other datasets.

Anyone know what Vodafone's market share is?

37%

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

37%

24,000 has to be the overall figure.
Its up 4,000 since 2015/16 - when 20,000 was the figure given in the GCRR stats of Inbound Commuters into Galway City from the County(and neighboring County's)

Luckily we have P&R on each approach road into Galway City to handle this volume of Commuters :rolleyes:

Mrs OBumble

what_traffic wrote: »

24,000 has to be the overall figure.
Its up 4,000 since 2015/16 - when 20,000 was the figure given in the GCRR stats of Inbound Commuters into Galway City from the County(and neighboring County's)

I'd expect it to be a lot higher than that especially once you realise students are included.

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'd expect it to be a lot higher than that especially once you realise students are included.

24,000 has to be the overall figure.

I meant Overall in the context of the "Out of City" Commuters.
Will have roughly the same figure if not slightly more commuting to work and education within the City giving in about 50,0000 figure in total

gordongekko

what_traffic wrote: »

This is where your argument died.

:rolleyes:

McGiver wrote: »

I.e. Intra City traffic. A bit expensive for that purpose. And Galway City doesn't have the density you suggested, it's several times lower.

Still not getting the point that this will have a huge positive impact on the daily lives of everyone in the area of the city. You mention wasteland and ignore actual usage.

The bridge was designed for 20000 daily trips and currently has 37000 daily trips it's way over capacity.

xckjoo

gordongekko wrote: »

:rolleyes:



Still not getting the point that this will have a huge positive impact on the daily lives of everyone in the area of the city. You mention wasteland and ignore actual usage.

The bridge was designed for 20000 daily trips and currently has 37000 daily trips it's way over capacity.

I wonder what percentage of those are single occupancy trips going to and from work in high density population areas to high density workplace areas. If we could get the majority of them on public transport it would bring that number down quickly