Galway's traffic issues

John_Rambo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Does that mean cycles also have to go?

I spent 45 minutes walking around the city this morning. No cars endangered or even annoyed me at any time. The only vehicle which did was a bicycle going the wrong way down a one-way street; traffic was stationary while a lad unloaded some stuff, so I stepped into the street to go around some slower-moving pedestrians. Cycle-user should have anticipated that I'd do this because it'd been catching up to them for a good minute, but still he passed me with mm to spare.

Count yourself lucky it was a bike and not a car you stepped out in front of.

Mrs OBumble

Deleted User wrote: »

You'll win yourself a Darwin Award with behaviour like that

Nope.

There is no way a car could have been in that place: the street is one vehicle wide, one way, and traffic was totally stopped by the van, which I was only a few metres away from.

Ass*** on bicycle shouldn't have been there. Suffice to say he had no helmet, dark coloured clothing, and either no warning device (ie bell) or chose / was to stupid to use it.

Classic example of why pedestrians and bicycles don't mix.

McTigs

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Does that mean cycles also have to go?

I spent 45 minutes walking around the city this morning. No cars endangered or even annoyed me at any time. The only vehicle which did was a bicycle going the wrong way down a one-way street; traffic was stationary while a lad unloaded some stuff, so I stepped into the street to go around some slower-moving pedestrians. Cycle-user should have anticipated that I'd do this because it'd been catching up to them for a good minute, but still he passed me with mm to spare.

Many european cities are now allowing contra flow cycling (I admit not ours) as one way systems were introduced in the first place as cars and carparking didn't allow two way because of space.... but there really is no reason to restrict bicycles in the same way.

gordongekko

McTigs wrote: »

Many european cities are now allowing contra flow cycling (I admit not ours) as one way systems were introduced in the first place as cars and carparking didn't allow two way because of space.... but there really is no reason to restrict bicycles in the same way.

So it's not ok for cars to break the rules but it is ok for cyclists to break them :rolleyes:

xckjoo

gordongekko wrote: »

So it's not ok for cars to break the rules but it is ok for cyclists to break them :rolleyes:

I don't think so. Use the bike to get around most days but stick to the rules.

The obvious difference is the risk involved to others, but I'd be happy with equal enforcement of all road rules. And I don't mean the zero enforcement that's currently done

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Nope.

There is no way a car could have been in that place: the street is one vehicle wide, one way, and traffic was totally stopped by the van, which I was only a few metres away from.

Ass*** on bicycle shouldn't have been there. Suffice to say he had no helmet, dark coloured clothing, and either no warning device (ie bell) or chose / was to stupid to use it.

Classic example of why pedestrians and bicycles don't mix.

I owe you an apology, I missed that the cyclist was going the wrong way down a one-way in your original post, I stand corrected

Ashleigh1986

One things for sure .
Galway streets are to narrow to allow on street parking and expect them to be 2 way . The space isn't there for cyclists / motorists .
I'm all in favour of bus lanes / bike lanes , however unless you start knocking down buildings it's impossible to fit everything in .
It's obvious a one way system around a lot of the city roads needs to be implemented.
But like with a lot of things enforcement is the key .

McTigs

gordongekko wrote: »

So it's not ok for cars to break the rules but it is ok for cyclists to break them :rolleyes:

Nope, didn't say that. I merely pointed out that it's not a rule that should apply to cyclists and this something that is being recognised in other (more progressive and imaginative) places.

McTigs

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

It's obvious a one way system around a lot of the city roads needs to be implemented.

It's already implemented, half of them are one way

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

You can’t be serious? Pedestrians are 100% responsible for looking after themselves when walking and should very much worry about putting themselves in harms way as it’s their job to stay out of cars way if they set foot on the road, which is for cars not walkers aside from when they have a green man to cross. Are you suggesting that walkers should just be able to walk out in front of cars and expect them to stop and if they don’t it’s not their own stupid fault?

Look I never wait for a green man and cross where it’s most convienent but I do so at my own risk and make sure not to impede cars when doing so.

A basic for anyone learning to drive a car (or indeed ride a bike) is to assume that other people will do stupid things. This will never not be an issue. So if a pedestrian does something stupid, you still have to try not to hit them. It doesn’t matter that you’re in the right. It’s not always possible to not hit the pedestrian but the driver should do their best not to. Human life > being right.

Whereisgalway

topcat77 wrote: »

There should be a lot more light controlled crossings in the city centre and all should be pedestrian biased.

The lights at Spanish arch are a joke along with Eyre square. no crossings along Eglington street and trying to get from Galway shopping centre to Galway retail park is a nightmare for anyone.

The ped lights at the spainish arc are the main cause of traffic to stretch along the docks and Lough Atalia Road

jjpep

Whereisgalway wrote: »

The ped lights at the spainish arc are the main cause of traffic to stretch along the docks and Lough Atalia Road

One of our esteemed local councillors said similar recently too. Is the idea that parts of the city should not be accessible on foot so that people driving can be stuck some where else along that road? Maybe a better plan would be to find other ways than just cars as a way of commuting across the city.

Ashleigh1986

McTigs wrote: »

It's already implemented, half of them are one way

....mill street / sea road / Dominic street/ Henry street/ .... A slight exaggeration to suggest half of the streets in galway are already one way !!!!

Ashleigh1986

Also .... University road / headford road / bohermore / Lough atalia / college road / .... Nonsense to suggest half of the galway city roads/ streets are already one way

jjpep

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Also .... University road / headford road / bohermore / Lough atalia / college road / .... Nonsense to suggest half of the galway city roads/ streets are already one way

It would make a lot of sense to make many, if not all, of those one way. Where the streets are narrow, on street car parking could be removed to allow for bike lanes

Ashleigh has a point, we should be pushing to get more one way streets to free up space for pedestrians and cyclists

Ashleigh1986

Will the galway city council do away with on street parking on certain roads to facilitate one way systems or bike lanes ????
The revenue from on street parking pays for a lot of these public sector workers !!
Sooner better than later galway city council needs to get its head out if it's ARS ,and start implementing drastic changes ,to aliveate all the issues regarding galway traffic no matter what mode of transport you use .

Mrs OBumble

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Will the galway city council do away with on street parking on certain roads to facilitate one way systems or bike lanes ????
The revenue from on street parking pays for a lot of these public sector workers !!
Sooner better than later galway city council needs to get its head out if it's ARS ,and start implementing drastic changes ,to aliveate all the issues regarding galway traffic no matter what mode of transport you use .

What particular streets do you have in mind?

Fitz*

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What particular streets do you have in mind?

I would guess Eglinton street for a start. Forster street too.

Ashleigh1986

Lough atalia / college road / mill street / sea road / Henry street / presentation road / Dominic street .... After that take a look at headford road from courthouse to traffic lights at tesco ....

Mrs OBumble

FitzShane wrote: »

I would guess Eglinton street for a start. Forster street too.

I'd absolutely agree with removing peak hour parking from those streets. Not suitable for protected bike lanes though, because there still needs to be off-peak parking for deliveries to the businesses. (And not it's not feasible to deliver to them by bicycle courier: think about what a keg weighs.)

Eglinton St isn't a candidate for one-way though because there's no obvious parallel for buses etc to use.

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Lough atalia / college road

They tried one way. The problem wasn't on-street parking. It was the speed that traffic went at, and also that it really isolated old people living on College Rd who depend on public transport to get into town.

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

mill street / sea road / Henry street / presentation road / Dominic street ....

I don't know traffic patterns in the west so well - guess there could be some good one-way loops there. Removing on-street parking is more of an issue, because where would the residents park.

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

After that take a look at headford road from courthouse to traffic lights at tesco ....

Very little on-street parking there. Hard to see it as a candidate for one-way, again, no obvious parallel. But I'd totally agree there should be a lane for low-powered two and three wheelers, which is both a protected from high-powered vehicles and grade separated from pedestrians.

xckjoo

Whereisgalway wrote: »

The ped lights at the spainish arc are the main cause of traffic to stretch along the docks and Lough Atalia Road

I dunno where this idea came from but it's demonstrably wrong. There's a near solid line of traffic between those lights and Ravens Terrace in the evening rush hour. Pedestrian lights add minor delay at best. We're talking a 2-5 car gap between those lights and the end of the traffic at Ravens Terrace. Removing the lights would shift the traffic by that amount.

In saying that, I wonder why they don't change them to be flashing amber at peak times.

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Will the galway city council do away with on street parking on certain roads to facilitate one way systems or bike lanes ????
The revenue from on street parking pays for a lot of these public sector workers !!
Sooner better than later galway city council needs to get its head out if it's ARS ,and start implementing drastic changes ,to aliveate all the issues regarding galway traffic no matter what mode of transport you use .

Yup. It's craziness. GCC have a real hard on for those parking spaces. I think they calculate their value as price-per-hour x hours-in-the-day (i.e. assuming 100% usage and compliance at all times). I'd love to see if they bring in anywhere near that amount. I doubt it somehow.

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'd absolutely agree with removing peak hour parking from those streets. Not suitable for protected bike lanes though, because there still needs to be off-peak parking for deliveries to the businesses. (And not it's not feasible to deliver to them by bicycle courier: think about what a keg weighs.)

Eglinton St isn't a candidate for one-way though because there's no obvious parallel for buses etc to use.





They tried one way. The problem wasn't on-street parking. It was the speed that traffic went at, and also that it really isolated old people living on College Rd who depend on public transport to get into town.





I don't know traffic patterns in the west so well - guess there could be some good one-way loops there. Removing on-street parking is more of an issue, because where would the residents park.





Very little on-street parking there. Hard to see it as a candidate for one-way, again, no obvious parallel. But I'd totally agree there should be a lane for low-powered two and three wheelers, which is both a protected from high-powered vehicles and grade separated from pedestrians.

Delivery drivers rarely use parking spots. They use delivery zones or pull up wherever they can. Keg deliveries are a good example. They'll park nearly in the cellar if they can, but they'll also roll them half way across town if needs be.

If there was no parking for private car, they'd actually have more space for deliveries and cause less of an impedance.



I can think of "parallels" for all those roads you mentioned. Think rings as opposed to straight lines. The car might have to travel further overall, but they're pretty quick when they're free to move, so it would be faster.
The Lough Atalia one-way system was poorly planned with no residence consultation and a half-ass implementation. They could 100% solve all the problems they encountered if they put some effort into it. I've a feeling we'll see it again in the not too distant future.

Last I heard the one way Lough Atalia/College Road setup was due to return

zell12

Deleted User wrote: »

Last I heard the one way Lough Atalia/College Road setup was due to return

Not in the one way sense
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109978379&postcount=227

Ashleigh1986

One way coming in Lough atalia and outbound on college road .
One way coming in bohermore and outbound headford road .
By doing this you would have room along these roads for bus lanes .
A zero tolerance is needed along those roads ,for vecihcles of all sorts ,that would be abandoned as in already in practice along foster street and eglinton street.
One way system turning off prospect hill down " hidden valley " .

McTigs

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Also .... University road / headford road / bohermore / Lough atalia / college road / .... Nonsense to suggest half of the galway city roads/ streets are already one way

Dock Road, Merchants Road, East side of Eyre Square, Prospect Hill, Cross Street, Middle Street, Market Street, Lower and Upper AbbeyGate Street, Augustine Street, Bowling Green, Mary Street, Eyre Street, Brendans Avenue, Bothar Irwin, Waterside, Forster Street, That road going from Prospect Hill down to the Bus Station, Raleigh Row.... hardly nonsense.

I agree we need more mind

Mrs OBumble

xckjoo wrote: »

I can think of "parallels" for all those roads you mentioned. Think rings as opposed to straight lines. The car might have to travel further overall, but they're pretty quick when they're free to move, so it would be faster.

Please do share the names.

But note that we dont want 'em moving quicker. And that drivers of low-power vehicles have issues with being asked to travel substantially further.

Ashleigh1986

To stop so called speeding on these one way roads
Lough atalia / college road / bohermore / headford road ... Put proper signage up and speed cameras !!!
better to be moving at 30 kph than stuck in bumper to bumper traffic .

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Please do share the names.

But note that we dont want 'em moving quicker. And that drivers of low-power vehicles have issues with being asked to travel substantially further.

What's a "low-power" vehicle?

what_traffic

gordongekko wrote: »

So it's not ok for cars to break the rules but it is ok for cyclists to break them :rolleyes:

Of course not - needs to be based on risk. Fines and penalties for breaking the rules needs to be based on physics. Basic Newtonian Physics. I.E the greater the mass you have - the greater the damage you are going to do.

what_traffic

zell12 wrote: »

Not in the one way sense
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109978379&postcount=227

This is correct. One main reason - Galway Port redevelopment/existing Port HGV traffic. Would it practical for Outbound HGV to using Fairgreen Road - TRAIN STATION/2 Bus Stations? Lough Ataila as it is, is not suitable for 5 axel HGV. College Road certainly is not.

Storm 10

Absolute traffic chaos again near Dun Na Corribe where they repaired a water leak recently, they are digging it up again, the bridge inbound is jammed from the Corrib Park roundabout and also coming from the City towards the headford road, avoid at all costs its not moving.

Ashleigh1986

Storm10.... Another example of how NOT to do things in galway .
traffic chaos down there and it's not raining or rush hour .
That's why CCTV operated traffic lights s are needed !!!
If you had CCTV operated traffic lights ,instead of the roundabout at castlelawn heights , the person watching on camera would be able to see westbound on the bridge is in serious trouble, and therefore change the light sequence to help alleviate the problem.
Wake up galway city council .
It's not rocket science.
But I've always said .... " give me streetsmarts over book smarts any day "

xckjoo

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Storm10.... Another example of how NOT to do things in galway .
traffic chaos down there and it's not raining or rush hour .
That's why CCTV operated traffic lights s are needed !!!
If you had CCTV operated traffic lights ,instead of the roundabout at castlelawn heights , the person watching on camera would be able to see westbound on the bridge is in serious trouble, and therefore change the light sequence to help alleviate the problem.
Wake up galway city council .
It's not rocket science.
But I've always said .... " give me streetsmarts over book smarts any day "

They're trying to get rid of that roundabout no? It's more a case of bureaucracy than anything

Ashleigh1986

Xckjoo.... The issue with that roundabouts is there's 5 archeries off that roundabout .
Headford road inbound / tuam road / liosban/ headford road outbound / castlelawn .
Traffic lights work best when there are 4 .
They considered closing off liosban... Businesses complained.
They considered closing off castlelawn.... Residents complained.
What they are now going to do is
When you drive down by the menlo park hotel, you will have to take a left, as you approach lights , to take a right to come back into traffic lights , where roundabout is at moment .

xckjoo

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Xckjoo.... The issue with that roundabouts is there's 5 archeries off that roundabout .
Headford road inbound / tuam road / liosban/ headford road outbound / castlelawn .
Traffic lights work best when there are 4 .
They considered closing off liosban... Businesses complained.
They considered closing off castlelawn.... Residents complained.
What they are now going to do is
When you drive down by the menlo park hotel, you will have to take a left, as you approach lights , to take a right to come back into traffic lights , where roundabout is at moment .

Ya that's bureaucracy. Not "book learning"

Ashleigh1986

It's design !!!
Who designs these projects ????
People who to much book smarts and not enough street smarts .
Same people decided to put down cobblestones down shop street and allow heavy Lorries drive on them .
Same people told us eyre square redevelopment was going to give galway a worldwide appreciated plaza ???
Same people are involved in the galway 2020 fiasco .
Same people were involved in the Volvo ocean race finale .
Same people .......

xckjoo

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

It's design !!!
Who designs these projects ????
People who to much book smarts and not enough street smarts .
Same people decided to put down cobblestones down shop street and allow heavy Lorries drive on them .
Same people told us eyre square redevelopment was going to give galway a worldwide appreciated plaza ???
Same people are involved in the galway 2020 fiasco .
Same people were involved in the Volvo ocean race finale .
Same people .......

Actually they're designed, go to committee, get rejected due whatever reasons, go back to get redesigned with compromises, get rejected again due to the same or new reasons, back to redesign, etc.

Nobody sets out to design a sh1t solution. I'm not sure what you're getting at other than having a rant. Some of those examples you gave happened decades apart so aren't likely to be the same people at all. Are you suggesting it would be better to not design these things and let them throw together whatever feels right on the day?


To my eyes, the problem is in that redesign loop. The stakeholders are driven by their own objectives, which aren't always the same objectives as the wider population. So for example with traffic most people will want overall improvement in traffic flow, but businesses are only interested in customers and will fight anything they perceive as a threat (usually based on their opinion which can often be refuted by looking at the research), local people will have different desires than every one else (e.g. minimum traffic near their house), and some people will argue against a change because they believe it'll make things worse because "it's obvious" or they prefer roundabouts to traffic lights.

Research (or "book learning") is vitally important to making these decisions, that's why I'm pushing the point and not leaving you to it. On the face of it, I'd assume building more roads would help with traffic, but every single bit of research I've read on the topic has found the opposite. That's important to know or we'd just keep repeating the same mistakes. Same with parking spots in town. You'd think that would bring more customers to the shops, but again that has been found to be untrue. It's footfall that is the biggest factor to shop sales, so increased pedestrianisation is actually more likely to help businesses.

But I do agree that design without hands-on experience is almost always a disaster. It's the flip side of throwing something together based on intuition (or "street smarts"). The solution must lie somewhere in the middle. Use the research to show us what works on a macro scale and then apply it with local knowledge input.

Anyway. I'll leave it at that. I tend to agree with you in general Ashleigh, just thought that point is too important to ignore.

Ashleigh1986

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Xckjoo.... The issue with that roundabouts is there's 5 archeries off that roundabout .
Headford road inbound / tuam road / liosban/ headford road outbound / castlelawn .
Traffic lights work best when there are 4 .
They considered closing off liosban... Businesses complained.
They considered closing off castlelawn.... Residents complained.
What they are now going to do is
When you drive down by the menlo park hotel, you will have to take a left, as you approach lights , to take a right to come back into traffic lights , where roundabout is at moment .

There will only be 4 arms at the new junction.

Ashleigh1986

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

If you had CCTV operated traffic lights ,instead of the roundabout at castlelawn heights , the person watching on....

You must be mad, the worst thing that ever happened to traffic in Galway was getting rid of the roundabouts. They are vastly more efficient for traffic flow and traffic in Galway moved massively better before they all got take away. It was an idiotic nove.

One way systems are another disaster of an idea forcing people to drive half way around the city to make a short journey not to mention how forcing far more cars deon a single route than multiple routes will cause absolute mayhem at rush hour.

ChewyLouie

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

You must be mad, the worst thing that ever happened to traffic in Galway was getting rid of the roundabouts. They are vastly more efficient for traffic flow and traffic in Galway moved massively better before they all got take away. It was an idiotic nove.

You can't compare the flow through roundabouts back then to the flow through traffic light junctions now though as the volume of traffic has changed.

Moving to traffic lights gives you the ability to control the flow of traffic much better, especially once all junctions are all converted and the signals connected and a bit of smarts or supervision to keep things moving efficiently. Unfortunately this step hasn't happened in Galway yet.

Roundabouts are also a major deterrent to cycling and more bikes has to be central to a solution for modern inner-city transport - it has already proven to work across many cities.

Mrs OBumble

xckjoo wrote: »

What's a "low-power" vehicle?

Bicycle. Tricycle. Scooter. Many eBikes.

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Bicycle. Tricycle. Scooter. Many eBikes.

They aren't cars. We have different sets of rules for them (contra flows, bus lanes, bike lanes, etc). A bit of extra distance isn't an issue on a bike though. Elevation changes are a much bigger challenge. Most people I've met that cycle commute already take longer routes to avoid things like hills and dangerous parts of the road. Not too many trikes out there....

PS thanks to nox for perfectly demonstrating what I was talking about with intuition vs fact backed information

Ashleigh1986

ChewyLouie wrote: »

You can't compare the flow through roundabouts back then to the flow through traffic light junctions now though as the volume of traffic has changed.

Moving to traffic lights gives you the ability to control the flow of traffic much better, especially once all junctions are all converted and the signals connected and a bit of smarts or supervision to keep things moving efficiently. Unfortunately this step hasn't happened in Galway yet.

Roundabouts are also a major deterrent to cycling and more bikes has to be central to a solution for modern inner-city transport - it has already proven to work across many cities.

Exactly chewylouie....it won't be until all the roundabouts are taken out and a PROPERLY CCTV OPERATED TRAFFUC LIGHT SYTEM OPERATED BY PROPERLY TRAINED PEOPLE is replaced .

Ashleigh1986

Deleted User wrote: »

There will only be 4 arms at the new junction.

I'm aware of that Dacor ... That's why the uproar over which junction to close off.

Ashleigh1986

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

I'm aware of that Dacor ... That's why the uproar over which junction to close off.

Some folks just don't like change

JCX BXC

Traffic backed up do horrifically this evening. Even into NUI, due to roadworks on the headford road!

Storm 10

Why the can't have flashing Amber lights for people going left on the Tuam road from bothar Na drabh is beyond me, you have to join with the same traffic going straight ahead, why when the lights are green for traffic coming in from Tuam going straight ahead left and right can't the lights go green to go left for Tuam instead you have to wait for all lights to go green, they should only be red going left when a pedestrian wants to cross.

Ashleigh1986

Same storm10 when you hit the lights at foster street .
Why can't there be a flashing amber light to turn left going up college road ?
Yet again galway city council and its engineers haven't a clue .