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ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

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    #1622
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,051 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    malinheader wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but if there was false claims made about you in the media. Should you not proceed with a claim or something against them. Or maybe you did.

    No point. I was doing charity work to do with universal jurisdiction and trying to get Israeli politicians tried for war crimes. But the way things were written was rhetoric and circumstantial and used other parts of my life to draw conclusions. It was the first time that I saw how journalism could be used so subtley to cast doubt. Only I knew the truth I would have been drawn in too.

    So let’s get one thing straight. This U.K. girl is scum, a terrorist and most likely would become a martyr by blowing herself up if she got home. But my point is that she should be interviewed and a decision made by officials where she is (don’t bring her home). She should not be tried by a media that is biased.

    We have keyboard warriors who make out they are judge jury and executioner. To be made stateless is a breach of human rights. If we pick and choose which one of those we can forget then why not allow torture, genocide, state murder on the whim of a media trial. We are judged as a society on how we treat our most vulnerable. To turn your back on a young woman because a journalist interviewed her and showed us what they wanted us to see is not the convention of human rights we all signed up for.


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    #1623
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Sunny88 wrote: »
    Well wise up or you will have more babies to feel sorry for
    Isis types are planning school massacres in Germany
    Have you heard of Beslan?
    Wise up about what?


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    #1624
    Sunny88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12 ✭Sunny88


    Aniyah Flabby Sidebar wrote: »
    Wise up about what?
    Learn about Beslan


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    #1625
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    dd973 wrote: »
    She's not really British, she's a Bengali born in London, if the Brits hadn't colonised or ruined her parental country and place of origin she wouldn't have ended up being born there in the first place.
    She's a Briitish citizen, no less than if her parents were John and Jenny Smith, soccerball supporting garden fete goers.


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    #1626
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Sunny88 wrote: »
    Learn about Beslan
    What about it?
    Is your point that Islamic Terrorists are bad? Because if it's something more nuanced I'm not getting it.


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    #1627
    Sunny88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12 ✭Sunny88


    Aniyah Flabby Sidebar wrote: »
    She's a Briitish citizen no less than if her parents were John and Jenny Smith, soccerball supporting garden fete goers.

    So you are saying that the Isis bride killed her own child because he was an infidel Brit
    Or are only white british children legitimate targets


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    #1628
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Sunny88 wrote: »
    So you are saying that the Isis bride killed her own child because he was an infidel Brit
    Or are only white british children legitimate targets
    What a disgusting thing to say.


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    #1629
    Sunny88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12 ✭Sunny88


    Aniyah Flabby Sidebar wrote: »
    What a disgusting thing to say.

    More disgusting than the Manchester Arena
    Which you never condemned


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    #1630
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Sunny88 wrote: »
    More disgusting than the Manchester Arena
    Which you never condemned
    not sure if trolling or mental


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    #1631
    Sunny88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12 ✭Sunny88


    Aniyah Flabby Sidebar wrote: »
    not sure if trolling or mental

    Condemn the Ariana Grande Concert Bombing


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    #1632
    dd973
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭dd973


    Aniyah Flabby Sidebar wrote: »
    She's a Briitish citizen, no less than if her parents were John and Jenny Smith, soccerball supporting garden fete goers.

    Whom are English which she isn't either.


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    #1633
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,241 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Aniyah Flabby Sidebar wrote: »
    The mother was actively seeking state help for her child. The state said no **** you and your baby. The state has a duty to protect its citizens, especially vulnerable innocent ones like babies.

    She was also Britain's responsibilty. She was British. She was radicalised in Britain, as a child herself. How much was she groomed manipulated and brainwashed in the last four years and how much is she just a psycho - I dont know and neither do you. As a citizen of Britain they can investigate that and if appropriate, have her stand trial, where she should enjoy a presumption of innocence.

    Not really, the west has become so soft that people seem to forget actions have consequences. She made her bed, now she can sleep in it.

    Yes the UK government should protect their citizens, however that is a right she gave up the day she left the UK to join a terror group. She would still be there if ISIS had not been defeated.

    There should be a zero tolerance policy.


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    #1634
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    joeguevara wrote: »
    No point. I was doing charity work to do with universal jurisdiction and trying to get Israeli politicians tried for war crimes. But the way things were written was rhetoric and circumstantial and used other parts of my life to draw conclusions. It was the first time that I saw how journalism could be used so subtley to cast doubt. Only I knew the truth I would have been drawn in too.

    So let’s get one thing straight. This U.K. girl is scum, a terrorist and most likely would become a martyr by blowing herself up if she got home. But my point is that she should be interviewed and a decision made by officials where she is (don’t bring her home). She should not be tried by a media that is biased.

    We have keyboard warriors who make out they are judge jury and executioner. To be made stateless is a breach of human rights. If we pick and choose which one of those we can forget then why not allow torture, genocide, state murder on the whim of a media trial. We are judged as a society on how we treat our most vulnerable. To turn your back on a young woman because a journalist interviewed her and showed us what they wanted us to see is not the convention of human rights we all signed up for.

    Totally agree the media is a powerful force but what I seen of her interview and her justification of the Manchester atrocity would make me feel she should definitely not of been let back if possible and that's what happened.
    Me and you both agree she is scum and would probably end up causing another atrocity once back.
    But referring to keyboard warriors who want to be judge, jury and executioner is I feel unfair, Most people who are venting their anger about her possible return are frustrated and angry as I am by how soft Europe has become when dealing with these scum. We have a clown of a leader in this country who publicly said he will take back ISIS terrorists ,unless we take heed quickly at the mess alot of places in Europe are experiencing we are going to end up the same.


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    #1635
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    dd973 wrote: »
    She's not really British, she's a Bengali born in London, if the Brits hadn't colonised or ruined her parental country and place of origin she wouldn't have ended up being born there in the first place.

    Load of shinners garbage.


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    #1636
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    A tiny baby is dead. And it was preventable.

    That baby was innocent, and entitled to the support of the British government.

    Those are facts.

    Whatever your opinion on what should happen to the baby’s parents, it remains true.

    The parents’ choices are the primary reasons, but the British governments inaction are certainly a contributing factor.


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    #1637
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    A tiny baby is dead. And it was preventable.

    That baby was innocent, and entitled to the support of the British government.

    Those are facts.

    Whatever your opinion on what should happen to the baby’s parents, it remains true.

    The parents’ choices are the primary reasons, but the British governments inaction are certainly a contributing factor.

    What about the other two babies. Is the British government to be held accountable for them too.


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    #1638
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    joeguevara wrote: »
    The issue is if you read what journalists wrote it would have been lies

    Throw up a link to these lies so.


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    #1639
    Giveaway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭Giveaway


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    A tiny baby is dead. And it was preventable.

    That baby was innocent, and entitled to the support of the British government.

    Those are facts.

    Whatever your opinion on what should happen to the baby’s parents, it remains true.

    The parents’ choices are the primary reasons, but the British governments inaction are certainly a contributing factor.
    We don't know why the baby died yet but most likely due to a preventable illness and poor conditions, but the British gov did not put her there. Immediate repatriation of the baby to the UK desirable but then every jihadi would plead the belly.
    Also the responsibility for famine, destroyed systems of healthcare and the lack of skilled medics(murdered or forced to flee) lies firmly with the mother and her isis brethern.
    Also many non combadants babys' are dying for the same reasons.


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    #1640
    Giveaway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭Giveaway


    Looks like the ISIS bride has been named in the indo. Hope the diplomats heading over to see her, ignore her but take her toddler home immediately to be cared for by non islamist relatives or adopted
    Edit. Was up to recently making isis propaganda vids and claiming to be British. I look forward to sinn fein reps calling for the gov to help her


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    #1641
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Giveaway wrote: »
    Looks like the ISIS bride has been named in the indo. Hope the diplomats heading over to see her, ignore her but take her toddler home immediately to be cared for by non islamist relatives or adopted
    Edit. Was up to recently making isis propaganda vids and claiming to be British. I look forward to sinn fein reps calling for the gov to help her

    Hope you are right, but cant see our crowd being as wise as the British were on this matter.


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    #1642
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Giveaway wrote: »
    We don't know why the baby died yet but most likely due to a preventable illness and poor conditions, but the British gov did not put her there. Immediate repatriation of the baby to the UK desirable but then every jihadi would plead the belly.
    Also the responsibility for famine, destroyed systems of healthcare and the lack of skilled medics(murdered or forced to flee) lies firmly with the mother and her isis brethern.
    Also many non combadants babys' are dying for the same reasons.

    I already said the baby’s parents are primarily to blame. That doesn’t excuse the British government for failing to help.

    Laying blame for famine etc however righteous it may feel is no good to the baby. You don’t have to convince me that Isis is bad.

    Other women “pleading the belly” is awful whataboutery. Absolutely no excuse to let a newborn die.


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    #1643
    Giveaway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭Giveaway


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    I already said the baby’s parents are primarily to blame. That doesn’t excuse the British government for failing to help.

    Laying blame for famine etc however righteous it may feel is no good to the baby. You don’t have to convince me that Isis is bad.

    Other women “pleading the belly” is awful whataboutery. Absolutely no excuse to let a newborn die.
    Its not an excuse to let the baby die. The baby should have been taken to the UK but i guarantee if the offer to take the baby back to grandparents but leave the mam in syria was made, the isis member woukd reject it out of hand.


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    #1644
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Giveaway wrote: »
    Its not an excuse to let the baby die. The baby should have been taken to the UK but i guarantee if the offer to take the baby back to grandparents but leave the mam in syria was made, the isis member woukd reject it out of hand.

    We don’t know that because the offer wasn’t made.


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    #1645
    Giveaway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭Giveaway


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    I already said the baby’s parents are primarily to blame. That doesn’t excuse the British government for failing to help.

    Laying blame for famine etc however righteous it may feel is no good to the baby. You don’t have to convince me that Isis is bad.

    Other women “pleading the belly” is awful whataboutery. Absolutely no excuse to let a newborn die.
    I guarantee if an offer was made to bring the child immediatly back to grandparents in the UK or Holland but leave mam behind, it would be rejected out of hand by the mam and her supporters as to them the baby is just a means to an end. If she really had rejected islamism and truly cared for her baby she would be apologising for her crimes,pleading for her baby to go home, and offering to stay in Syria/kurdistan to face the consequences


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    #1646
    Giveaway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭Giveaway


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    We don’t know that because the offer wasn’t made.

    She should have made the offer instead of asking for herself to be saved. Most decent parents would do the same irregardless of cultural backround.


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    #1647
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    dd973 wrote: »
    She's not really British, she's a Bengali born in London, if the Brits hadn't colonised or ruined her parental country and place of origin she wouldn't have ended up being born there in the first place.

    Rubbish


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    #1648
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,051 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    malinheader wrote: »
    Totally agree the media is a powerful force but what I seen of her interview and her justification of the Manchester atrocity would make me feel she should definitely not of been let back if possible and that's what happened.
    Me and you both agree she is scum and would probably end up causing another atrocity once back.
    But referring to keyboard warriors who want to be judge, jury and executioner is I feel unfair, Most people who are venting their anger about her possible return are frustrated and angry as I am by how soft Europe has become when dealing with these scum. We have a clown of a leader in this country who publicly said he will take back ISIS terrorists ,unless we take heed quickly at the mess alot of places in Europe are experiencing we are going to end up the same.

    Fairly well laid out here. https://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Citizenship_Deprivation_ENG.pdf

    The UK would have to prove that she was directly involved in terrorist activities and also she wouldn’t be left stateless by virtue of dual citizenship. If that can be proved of course they should revoke it and I would applaud it. But much more evidence is required and proper judicial process followed and not based on an interview by journalists. A full court case needs to happen and it can happen abroad.

    But arbitrarily taking away a human right without that as is being argued by a lot of people here no matter how reasonable it may seem is unconscionable. I want to reiterate that I think she is scum and deserves full retribution for her actions if proven but we have to follow the correct way of doing that.

    Also, if an Irish person did the same and had no other citizenship then there probably be no other alternative but to allow them to return. We could see the likes of our own Guantanamo being established which might be the most practical solution.


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    #1649
    Giveaway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭Giveaway


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Fairly well laid out here. https://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Citizenship_Deprivation_ENG.pdf

    The UK would have to prove that she was directly involved in terrorist activities and also she wouldn’t be left stateless by virtue of dual citizenship. If that can be proved of course they should revoke it and I would applaud it. But much more evidence is required and proper judicial process followed and not based on an interview by journalists. A full court case needs to happen and it can happen abroad.

    But arbitrarily taking away a human right without that as is being argued by a lot of people here no matter how reasonable it may seem is unconscionable. I want to reiterate that I think she is scum and deserves full retribution for her actions if proven but we have to follow the correct way of doing that.

    Also, if an Irish person did the same and had no other citizenship then there probably be no other alternative but to allow them to return. We could see the likes of our own Guantanamo being established which might be the most practical solution.
    They were citizens of the caliphate. You would dismiss as silly if One said defeated Nazis were stateless after the defeat of Nazi Germany. Foreign fighters with the SS getting to return to their country of origin without consequence or their home countries doing their best to repatriate citizens that join the SS. The last SS defenders of Berlin were French


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    #1650
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    dd973 wrote: »
    She's not really British, she's a Bengali born in London, if the Brits hadn't colonised or ruined her parental country and place of origin she wouldn't have ended up being born there in the first place.

    And if the Normans hadn't invaded Britain in 1066, and if.......:rolleyes:

    ****



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    #1651
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,051 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Giveaway wrote: »
    They were citizens of the caliphate. You would dismiss as silly if One said defeated Nazis were stateless after the defeat of Nazi Germany. Foreign fighters with the SS getting to return to their country of origin without consequence or their home countries doing their best to repatriate citizens that join the SS. The last SS defenders of Berlin were French

    I don’t dismiss anything as silly. I dismiss a trial by media without due process for a fundamental human right as citizenship. I said that if it was done correctly she deserves any retribution she receives if found guilty.


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