Changes to benefit the environment...

Dinzee Conlee

On the back of the "Fields of lush green grass" thread... and general environmental subject overall...

Plus, the BPM thread, and the feel people may be producing less... (plus the new found appreciation for donkeys )

Is anyone here planning to make any environmental changes? Am not talking big changes of abondoning entire fields... Just small changes, if production is going to be less, are there particular items ye are going to do?

I know there are a few here, who go to great lengths. I think its Capercille who is farming in a Corncrake area? I remember a while ago, they put up a pic of a stand of nettles they had growing, for insect feed. At the time, it made itch, and made me think I would be going for the backpack sprayer... (sorry Capercille)

But - maybe I am coming around to this type of farming...

Maybe its that I need a little change in how I look at things... a bit of re-education... The nettles above might be a good example - to me, they were a weed. But to Capercile, they were a food source...

So, for those of you, that are very environmentally focused... Any advice, or small changes people could do to help the world a little bit?

Dinzee Conlee

I'll start with bagstuff...

I put out a bit, not much though. But I like to give the ground something... But maybe there is something else I could be putting out, a tonic or 'improver' for the ground...

Interested in hearing about the non-chemical alternatives (if they exist)

blue5000

I reckon it's wild birds that are under the most pressure of extinction. By leaving hedges grow a bit taller and wider at the base it gives them food and habitat.

mayota

Dafm should stop penalizing for scrub and encroaching hedges.

_Brian

Some of our negative sins first, BPS infringements forced us to cut back scrub to clear ground, we’ve been doing minimal drainage and spraying to check rush coverage too, it’s not environmentally right but we can’t afford penalty either.

I’ve had my try at coppice for renewable fuel, it’s somewhat successful in that it produces a reasonable volume of timber, the aim isn’t to replace oil but reduce it. Sadly days with a chainsaw are tough going since injury, I may plant more but not sure. If I planted the remaining half acre and used it fully I’d say our oil use would be down to maybe 250l a year,

We spread much less bagged manure than 10 years ago, primarily through de stocking but also better soil health, not meaning to blame previous generations but the understanding wasn’t there.

Some rainwater harvesting to drinkers, mostly it works fine.

Smaller things, we haven’t use any rofldent bait in last three years, cats have been very successful. Very little weed killer used round the yard.

Solar water heating on the house provides hot water 8-9 months of the year.

Willfarman

_Brian wrote: »

Some of our negative sins first, BPS infringements forced us to cut back scrub to clear ground, we’ve been doing minimal drainage and spraying to check rush coverage too, it’s not environmentally right but we can’t afford penalty either.

I’ve had my try at coppice for renewable fuel, it’s somewhat successful in that it produces a reasonable volume of timber, the aim isn’t to replace oil but reduce it. Sadly days with a chainsaw are tough going since injury, I may plant more but not sure. If I planted the remaining half acre and used it fully I’d say our oil use would be down to maybe 250l a year,

We spread much less bagged manure than 10 years ago, primarily through de stocking but also better soil health, not meaning to blame previous generations but the understanding wasn’t there.

Some rainwater harvesting to drinkers, mostly it works fine.

Smaller things, we haven’t use any rofldent bait in last three years, cats have been very successful. Very little weed killer used round the yard.

Solar water heating on the house provides hot water 8-9 months of the year.

Get in a saw head hedgecutter for a couple of hours for your own safety

Say my name

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

I'll start with bagstuff...

I put out a bit, not much though. But I like to give the ground something... But maybe there is something else I could be putting out, a tonic or 'improver' for the ground...

Interested in hearing about the non-chemical alternatives (if they exist)

If you want to try something like that.

Try out some seaweed spray and mix a little molasses into it.
About 15 litres of molasses to 6 acres for starters and see how it goes.

There's a happy medium with applying molasses. Too much and it'll feed the microbes but it'll knock back the plant for a while.
(I posted a more scientific tweet on the above a few days ago in chitchat).

In the book "The hidden half of Nature" Anne Bikle brought subsoil into a rich carbon rich soil using coffee grounds, seaweed and molasses spray.

Multi species grazing swards should be seriously considered too. The smart grass project on the Lyons farm in UCD is getting good results.

Edit: Clips from the Biological conference in Tullamore last year are appearing on YouTube now.

https://youtu.be/HmKnRJVEgk0

Muckit

I'm toying with the notion of planting a line of alder trees. Not in a grove, but in a line along by internal electric fences. They are very beneficial for the soil in that they can fix nitrogen. Added benefit of leaf litter. They will firm up the ground underfoot and provide habitat and act as a windbreak.

Really think trees are underutilized. Grass only takes advantage of topsoil. Trees can bring up nutrients from much deeper.

80sDiesel

Muckit wrote: »

I'm toying with the notion of planting a line of alder trees. Not in a grove, but in a line along by internal electric fences. They are very beneficial for the soil in that they can fix nitrogen. Added benefit of leaf litter. They will firm up the ground underfoot and provide habitat and act as a windbreak.

Yes Alder are a great tree with its nitrogen fixing root nodules. Even better if planted in wet ground. I planted a couple hundred in wet areas and with a growth rate of 4foot per year they will have a quick impact on the landscape.

The catkins are very beneficial also to insects and birds..

G-Man

Interesting things coming to head.. We love how the Irish Consumer supports meat... Yet it appears they are also reducing meat consumption, and this is the question for irish farmers, what are you going to supply them with if they eat less of your meat and dairy.

https://www.thejournal.ie/vegetable-and-plant-based-milk-sales-rise-kantar-worldpanel-4488355-Feb2019/#comments

Supermarkets have responded ..I notice myself, meat prices in supermarket have pulled down a lot lately.. Fillet @20/kg in Supervalu.. Lamb loin chops @11/kg in LIDL.

80sDiesel

To the original poster.

Do you have a small field that you could set aside for a traditional hay meadow. Not much to it and it will have an enormous benefit.

Dinzee Conlee

80sDiesel wrote: »

To the original poster.

Do you have a small field that you could set aside for a traditional hay meadow. Not much to it and it will have an enormous benefit.

Hello 80s,

No, I am in GLAS, have fields in Low input pasture.

I don’t like cutting grass / hay actually.

I feel it kills the ground, unless you replace the nutrients. I don’t have slurry or dung, so it would be bag manure...
So - for that reason, I prefer to feed any grass, and let the grass in the field so speak...

Dinzee Conlee

80sDiesel wrote: »

Yes Alder are a great tree with its nitrogen fixing root nodules. Even better if planted in wet ground. I planted a couple hundred in wet areas and with a growth rate of 4foot per year they will have a quick impact on the landscape.

The catkins are very beneficial also to insects and birds..

Is alder the same as willow? Or just a close relation?

80sDiesel

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Hello 80s,

No, I am in GLAS, have fields in Low input pasture.

I don’t like cutting grass / hay actually.

I feel it kills the ground, unless you replace the nutrients. I don’t have slurry or dung, so it would be bag manure...
So - for that reason, I prefer to feed any grass, and let the grass in the field so speak...

So you are already doing something for the environment.

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Is alder the same as willow? Or just a close relation?

Nope. Alder is part of the birch family and willow is part of the willow family.

patsy_mccabe

Hate alder with a passion. No better tree to destroy a hedge. Everything dies under it's large canopy and you end up with a huge hole in the hedge.

(Edit - should have said Elder not Alder)

coolshannagh28

80sDiesel wrote: »

Yes Alder are a great tree with its nitrogen fixing root nodules. Even better if planted in wet ground. I planted a couple hundred in wet areas and with a growth rate of 4foot per year they will have a quick impact on the landscape.

The catkins are very beneficial also to insects and birds..

The city of Venice is built on alder piles , I planted a lot of alder in the afforestation scheme and they have great growth rates without being an eyesore .

endainoz

I'm looking to plant a good few trees too, Alder or Willow I'd say. After joining the organic scheme I won't be spraying or using any chemical fert anymore.

I'd like to plant some hedgerows if possible too and I'm going to plant some summer wildflowers in a part of the lawn in front of the house.

Seen as I can't use any rat poison anymore, would love to encourage a barn owl to hang around the place. I think that might be a bit far fetched all the same!

kollegeknight

I ordered seedbombs last week and am expecting delivery tomorrow.

Plan to bring some when I go for walks with with the lads and we fire a few out as we go and see will any take root.

Had Esb poles put in the land lately so I’ve a few boxes of wild flower seeds and plans to spread them where they damaged and repaired before grass goes.

Dinzee Conlee

kollegeknight wrote: »

I ordered seedbombs last week and am expecting delivery tomorrow.

Plan to bring some when I go for walks with with the lads and we fire a few out as we go and see will any take root.

Had Esb poles put in the land lately so I’ve a few boxes of wild flower seeds and plans to spread them where they damaged and repaired before grass goes.

Seedbombs? Any links?

Dinzee Conlee

80sDiesel wrote: »

So you are already doing something for the environment.

Nope. Alder is part of the birch family and willow is part of the willow family.

Ah, I wouldn’t be against the environment now...

I am doing GLAS as part of a scheme. I’d prob have the low input pasture anyways...

But it’s more what else I could be doing...

80sDiesel

Re wildflowers. The grass will overtake the wildflowers very quickly unless you also sow some yellow rattle. ( Hay rattle ). They are semi parasitic and will stunt the growth of rye grass and open up the sword . I planted some this year so will see how it goes.

80sDiesel

endainoz wrote: »

I'm looking to plant a good few trees too, Alder or Willow I'd say. After joining the organic scheme I won't be spraying or using any chemical fert anymore.

I'd like to plant some hedgerows if possible too and I'm going to plant some summer wildflowers in a part of the lawn in front of the house.

Seen as I can't use any rat poison anymore, would love to encourage a barn owl to hang around the place. I think that might be a bit far fetched all the same!

In deciding between Alder and Willow you should take into account their final height. Alder will grow to 30 metres whilst Willow ( goat and grey Willow are Irish varieties) will grow to 10 metres.

kollegeknight

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Seedbombs? Any links?

https://www.seedbomb.ie

I ordered the 1000 bombs for €120.

They haven’t arrived yet so I can’t comment on how effective they are.

Muckit

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Is alder the same as willow? Or just a close relation?

No willow is different tree. Sally in another name for it. It likes wet areas too and will take and thrive on wet ground.

The have to pay their way too though. I'm thinking of an alternative fuel source outside of fossil fuels. The day of the turf is soon at an end and oil as a domestic fuel won't be fair behind it or there will be a domestic carbon tax introduced.

Alder is a tidy lovely looking tree too IMO and grows readily around here (along with birch, willow and ash). It has lovely year round interest.

What I'd be planning would complement the cattle side of things with little work for a lot of positives.

Dinzee Conlee

I try to plant a few trees in hedges / ditches every year... just plants I find about the place... Ash mainly, some horse chestnut, some hazel...
I have willow growing around the yard and I find it a pure curse... springs up everywhere...

Is willow any good to burn do you know Muckit? I have some to cut up - presume it would burn away fine? As long as it was left season a good long while?

Birdnuts

We need results based agri/environmental schemes. Too much money has been wasted over the last 20 years hanging ornaments from trees and the like. The new HH scheme is much better in that regard and seems to have gone down will with participating farmers according to what I've read.

gozunda

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

I try to plant a few trees in hedges / ditches every year... just plants I find about the place... Ash mainly, some horse chestnut, some hazel...
I have willow growing around the yard and I find it a pure curse... springs up everywhere...

Is willow any good to burn do you know Muckit? I have some to cut up - presume it would burn away fine? As long as it was left season a good long while?

Cut to lengths, dry it for six months and it's very good to burn. I coppice willow here on a three year cycle- keeps me in firewood.

Lano Lynn

don't just plant alders or willow or birch plant a mix of all of them and hazel and holly and aspen and ash etc diversity is the key,and where possible scource them locally eg growing in local woods bogs abandoned building sites etc.

the 'environmental schemes' are pathetic in terms of their operation and stupid rules.(ask a birdwatch Ireland person about reps birdboxes for a reaction)

the obcession with whitethorn hedges is a prime example very picturesque in flower or berry but not very good at supporting biodiversity
the same length of hedge planted with a range of plants ,blackthorn,whitethorn hazel willow elm sorbus alder gorse even fushia(great for wildlife) briar blackberry elder blackcurrent gooseberry crabapple wild pear provides food and habitat for broader range of creatures for the whole year

I took the hit on penalties on eligible areas for years to retain and enhance the areas of biodiversity on my farm . I created ponds and scrubland which has been very therapeutic and rewarding but I would be 'into wildlife' anyway.

I almost felt guilty being paid to grow bird cover in AEOS. which I grew on a plot previously used for wheat or forage rape.the forage rape ironicly was the best bird cover ,

the amount of habitat destruction the past decade has been horrendous driven by GAEC rules. But one of the worst things I have seen has been REPS planers advising clients to plant bird cover on 'bad land' so often the most biodiverse plot on a farm full of orchids etc is ploughed down after a dose of roundup to grow crow food. the insistence to sow cereals for bird cover is stupid. It will take generations to rehabilitate these plots.

any corner of a field can grow nettles without it taking from the farm for caterpillars to feed on but the butterflies need flowers to feed on before they lay eggs ,nectar rich from the composite family (dandelions thistles burdock knapweed etc)

a very very simple way to help birds if you are feeding cattle nuts at grass get a bag of whole barley put a couple of handfuls into each bag of nuts the whole grain passes through the beast and the birds will pick through the dung to get it.

80sDiesel

Lano Lynn wrote: »

any corner of a field can grow nettles without it taking from the farm for caterpillars to feed on but the butterflies need flowers to feed on before they lay eggs ,nectar rich from the composite family (dandelions thistles burdock knapweed etc)

I have an area of nettles which i would like to maintain but i dont want it to spread . Is their an optimum time to cut it to prevent seed dispersal whilst maintaining its bio-diversity ?

bit of research came across this
Where growing nettles to encourage beneficial wildlife, pinch out the flowers as soon as they appear to prevent seeding. The unflowered top growth of nettles can be added to the compost heap but roots should be burned or binned.

Birdnuts

80sDiesel wrote: »

I have an area of nettles which i would like to maintain but i dont want it to spread . Is their an optimum time to cut it to prevent seed dispersal whilst maintaining its bio-diversity ?

Capercaille would be the man to answer that - AFAIK nettles need high N in soil to spread

Lano Lynn

80sDiesel wrote: »

I have an area of nettles which i would like to maintain but i dont want it to spread . Is their an optimum time to cut it to prevent seed dispersal whilst maintaining its bio-diversity ?

nettle patches tend to spread by root rather than by seed . spray around the edge of the patch with a broadspectum weedkiller not glyphosphate to stop spread. butterflies like big dense patches in sunny sheltered locations .early in the season (may) and again late august September)

Lano Lynn

forgot in my rant on the stupidity of reps etc that one of the best things to do to benefit farmland birds would be a reduction in grey crows and magpies they have a huge impact on nest predation even bird organisations have had to admit this .

grassroot1

Maybe if we cut a field or two of hay instead of mowing silage in the months of May or June it might give the ground nesters a chance to bring off a brood.
Uncultivated stubbles left over the winter to provide some winter feed would be a help.
Sowing a small copse of trees in a corner that is difficult to mow.
I am going to try some of the above anyway

Timmaay

Lano Lynn wrote: »

very very simple way to help birds if you are feeding cattle nuts at grass get a bag of whole barley put a couple of handfuls into each bag of nuts the whole grain passes through the beast and the birds will pick through the dung to get it.

Fantastic post/rant there and I need to implement more of thoses. On the above, it's a win win in that the birds spread around the dung also so less unpalatable grass patches. I've noticed the crows doing it here the whole time with maize in dung (the harvester didn't crack the corn in the maize well enough so reasonable amount passing thro). Duno how I would get it to work with milking parlour dairynuts however, 6/10ton blown into the bin each time, and it's not practical to try get the mill to mix in, maybe if I added a small hopper to the parlour auger that drip fed in the whole barley.

Say my name

Timmaay wrote: »

Fantastic post/rant there and I need to implement more of thoses. On the above, it's a win win in that the birds spread around the dung also so less unpalatable grass patches. I've noticed the crows doing it here the whole time with maize in dung (the harvester didn't crack the corn in the maize well enough so reasonable amount passing thro). Duno how I would get it to work with milking parlour dairynuts however, 6/10ton blown into the bin each time, and it's not practical to try get the mill to mix in, maybe if I added a small hopper to the parlour auger that drip fed in the whole barley.

Being a contrary fecker. .

But if you start that craic won't you start upsetting the earthworm, dungbeetle balance of those critters taking those dungpats below the soil surface?
I.e. they won't last long if rooks and jackdaws are lighting into their meal/cover.

Birdnuts

Say my name wrote: »

Being a contrary fecker. .

But if you start that craic won't you start upsetting the earthworm, dungbeetle balance of those critters taking those dungpats below the soil surface?
I.e. they won't last long if rooks and jackdaws are lighting into their meal/cover.

That relationship has been there since day one so I don't think it would make much difference - indeed a bird that is of high conservation concern that is now only found on scattered sites on the West Coast (The Chough) depends heavily on dung from farm stock to find its preferred food of beetle grubs. Speaking of dung beetles its reckoned that certain modern medications given to farm stock hit them hard as alot of it is passed out in dung which is why their abundance is way down in recent years.

Say my name

Birdnuts wrote: »

That relationship has been there since day one so I don't think it would make much difference - indeed a bird that is of high conservation concern that is now only found on scattered sites on the West Coast (The Chough) depends heavily on dung from farm stock to find its preferred food of beetle grubs. Speaking of dung beetles its reckoned that certain modern medications given to farm stock hit them hard as alot of it is passed out in dung which is why their abundance is way down in recent years.

Yea but farm experience here shows me that the dung pats that birds go rooting and scattering are not the ones that worms and beetles get a chance to pull underground.
I bet I'm posting double Dutch to some people here as their dungpats are left on the surface for only weather and bacteria to work and reasons most likely the medications, Birdnuts.

If you're going to be putting in whole barley in a diet just for the purpose of scattering a dung pat. You've bigger problems than you realise as a farmer.

_Brian

Haven’t done it yet but still have a yearning for a bee hive, help keep bee number up and tasty honey too.

I actually made a suggestion that it would be a good GLAS measure to make a payment to farmers for keeping bees, it would make sense.

kollegeknight

_Brian wrote: »

Haven’t done it yet but still have a yearning for a bee hive, help keep bee number up and tasty honey too.

I actually made a suggestion that it would be a good GLAS measure to make a payment to farmers for keeping bees, it would make sense.

I’m the same- trying to buy a few acres near me with a few strips under esb pylon lines running through forestry would be tempted to try establish wild flowers first before looking at bees.

Plus the price per jar of raw is ok on adverts and looks liked there’s interest in it too.

Genghis Cant

_Brian wrote: »

Haven’t done it yet but still have a yearning for a bee hive, help keep bee number up and tasty honey too.

I actually made a suggestion that it would be a good GLAS measure to make a payment to farmers for keeping bees, it would make sense.

A few years ago we got a hive of bees. Everywhere you looked there was talk of saving bees and wildflowers for bees and bug motels etc but I though the best way to save bees was to try breed them.
We've 3 or 4 hives now. You never know exactly what you have till spring!
We take some honey for ourselves but don't push them too hard. Last summer was good here. All hives healthy and the queen happy. Not one sting between us the whole year.
The previous year we'd an antichrist of a queen and got stung regularly.
We've still a lot to learn, there's a nice bit of work with a few hives but it's rewarding to see a happy hive and the place alive with bees.

_Brian

kollegeknight wrote: »

I’m the same- trying to buy a few acres near me with a few strips under esb pylon lines running through forestry would be tempted to try establish wild flowers first before looking at bees.

Plus the price per jar of raw is ok on adverts and looks liked there’s interest in it too.

I haven’t done it for the fickleist of reasons, just when honey is flowing and bees would be thinking of swarming is when we go away for a few weeks holidays.

Dinzee Conlee

grassroot1 wrote: »

Maybe if we cut a field or two of hay instead of mowing silage in the months of May or June it might give the ground nesters a chance to bring off a brood.
Uncultivated stubbles left over the winter to provide some winter feed would be a help.
Sowing a small copse of trees in a corner that is difficult to mow.
I am going to try some of the above anyway

I thought leaving stubble exposed wasn’t good, from a carbon & soil erosion perspective?
And more modern thinking is that cover crops are better, both from a fertiliser, weed and environment perspective?

(I could be wrong on this...)

Capercaillie

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

I thought leaving stubble exposed wasn’t good, from a carbon & soil erosion perspective?
And more modern thinking is that cover crops are better, both from a fertiliser, weed and environment perspective?

(I could be wrong on this...)

Spring sowed crop with the stubble left overwinter provide huge amount of both crop seed and weed seeds for birds. The transition to autumn sowed crops has hit birds like skylark, bunting, finches hard.

_Brian

Is there an overall verdict on the wild bird ground sowed as part of GLAS, I’ve heard wildly different reports from lads that have it sowed.

kollegeknight

_Brian wrote: »

I haven’t done it for the fickleist of reasons, just when honey is flowing and bees would be thinking of swarming is when we go away for a few weeks holidays.

I want to do the seed savers bee keeping course first so it will be a few years due to work commitment.

Capercaillie

_Brian wrote: »

Is there an overall verdict on the wild bird ground sowed as part of GLAS, I’ve heard wildly different reports from lads that have it sowed.

Depends what you have sowed and how you have sowed it. If you have sowed triticale you can attract masses of rats/crows. I have 0.3 acres of fodder radish/Caledonian kale/phacelia and have around 200 linnet, 30 twite, reed bunting, skylarks etc.

_Brian

Capercaillie wrote: »

Depends what you have sowed and how you have sowed it. If you have sowed triticale you can attract masses of rats/crows. I have 0.3 acres of fodder radish/Caledonian kale/phacelia and have around 200 linnet, 30 twite, reed bunting, skylarks etc.

Big difference.

Dinzee Conlee

_Brian wrote: »

Is there an overall verdict on the wild bird ground sowed as part of GLAS, I’ve heard wildly different reports from lads that have it sowed.

For me - I don’t know is it great...

But in the area right around where the WBC is down, there is acres of glen/forest, beet, tillage...
So, 2 acres of ****ty seeds, I don’t think will make much difference to the birds in this area...

It might be very different, in an area where there isn’t the same feed for birds already...

Gawddawggonnit

Reducing nitrogen usage by over 90% would go a long way to turning things in the right direction. Immediately farmers would turn to multi-species grasses, legumes etc.

That’ll never happen without legislation because the Irish farming system is totally addicted and dependent on nitrogen...

Kinda like that Braveheart quote “they can take our lives, but they’ll never take our NITROGEN”.
American NRA...” they’ll have to pry our NITROGEN from our dead rigor mortised hands”. . Lol.

Government and Teagasc need to lead on this. I won’t be holding my breath.

Where I’m farming now the usage of nitrogen has dropped by nearly 55% since 1990. Yields and production have increased!
This is a result of Government just setting limits. Simples.

Panch18

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Reducing nitrogen usage by over 90% would go a long way to turning things in the right direction. Immediately farmers would turn to multi-species grasses, legumes etc.

That’ll never happen without legislation because the Irish farming system is totally addicted and dependent on nitrogen...

Kinda like that Braveheart quote “they can take our lives, but they’ll never take our NITROGEN”.
American NRA...” they’ll have to pry our NITROGEN from our dead rigor mortised hands”. . Lol.

Government and Teagasc need to lead on this. I won’t be holding my breath.

Where I’m farming now the usage of nitrogen has dropped by nearly 55% since 1990. Yields and production have increased!
This is a result of Government just setting limits. Simples.

surely some kind of irony here? No?

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Gave in yesterday and bought some fert.
Got some Urea for €311. BB.
Nitrogen 34.4% €280. BB. 28t loads.
ASN €254.

If I’d the nutz I’d have held off for another few weeks as prices still softening...will buy some more in March.

Paid in full 30days after delivery.

yosemitesam1

_Brian wrote: »

Haven’t done it yet but still have a yearning for a bee hive, help keep bee number up and tasty honey too.

I actually made a suggestion that it would be a good GLAS measure to make a payment to farmers for keeping bees, it would make sense.

The country doesn't need more honeybees, needs more food for bees. Plenty of very large barren areas for them down here in south east.