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Frugality and Irish Society

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    #182
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,502 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    There is a house in Kenilworth Square in Harolds Cross. The owner, who owns about 30 houses in flats around Dublin 6, has never employed anyone to work on it. He is making his children do the renovation work and has made it clear to them that their share of his estate will be in proportion to the effort they put in to working on the house.

    How much will he be worth when he dies?


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    #183
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    How much will he be worth when he dies?

    Nil.


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    #184
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,904 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Pac1Man wrote: »
    What percentage of people would you guess have car loans?
    The amount of big 50k+ German execs I see every day is staggering. That's an incredible amount of money.
    Are people taking out mini mortgages on their cars or am I just poor as fuk thinking fifty grand is a lot.

    I dunno... I certainly wouldnt be getting one but they drive those cars in Germany too. Could be company cars... could be some sort of hire purchase or car loans.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #185
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,502 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Nil.

    Still he had a good innings, and was in the best of health when he died.


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    #186
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,080 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Have you got a pit of despair or emptiness inside you? If not you can't be Irish.

    WTF are you on about??


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    #187
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭screamer


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    I dunno... I certainly wouldnt be getting one but they drive those cars in Germany too. Could be company cars... could be some sort of hire purchase or car loans.

    This... many Germans have big **** off company cars... bmws Mercs and higher. The Germans also don’t buy houses they are lifelong renters and a good lot of them are quite miserable.... the hint is in the word


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    #188
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,904 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    WTF are you on about??

    Its a long thread. Try to keep up.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #189
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    One of the obvious problems with Weber is that Europe started to be commercial long before protestantism and in Catholic countries - northern Italy is an example, and in pre protestant Northern Europe.
    That's only problematic if one ascribes Europes's commercial or economic success to Protestantism -- which nobody is doing.

    Roman Catholicism and Protestantism should not be viewed as foundation characteristics in themselves, but rather,perhaps, as personality signals.

    Just in terms of Ireland, it really does seem to be a thesis with some merit.

    My Dad, ever the amateur sociologist, noticed that Protestants brought flowers to his deathbed; his Catholic friends brought whiskey!


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    #190
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I dunno, them Quaker boys were a fairly industrious sort. Goodbodys, Jacobs, Bewleys - all Quaker stock. Think Max may have had a point.


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    #191
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yurt! wrote: »
    I dunno, them Quaker boys were a fairly industrious sort. Goodbodys, Jacobs, Bewleys - all Quaker stock. Think Max may have had a point.
    Quakers were effectively barred from entering professions like law, medicine and public service. On the other hand, membership of the Society probably appealed to certain members who were industrious by nature. It probably isn't all a case of cause-and-effect.

    My Dad's family were Quakers - they were better spending money than at saving it. Not contradicting you here, but we should definitely stick to generalisations, as opposed to mentioning individual families.


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    #192
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    That's only problematic if one ascribes Europes's commercial or economic success to Protestantism -- which nobody is doing.

    Roman Catholicism and Protestantism should not be viewed as foundation characteristics in themselves, but rather,perhaps, as personality signals.

    Just in terms of Ireland, it really does seem to be a thesis with some merit.

    My Dad, ever the amateur sociologist, noticed that Protestants brought flowers to his deathbed; his Catholic friends brought whiskey!

    Even then it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Ireland was much much poorer under British, Protestant rule than it is now. Look at the part of Ireland under British, Protestant rule and compare our economies.


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    #193
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,904 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Even then it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Ireland was much much poorer under British, Protestant rule than it is now. Look at the part of Ireland under British, Protestant rule and compare our economies.

    Not saying the theory holds up to scrutiny but for example, 1890s Ireland was in the Top 10 in the world for living standards, relatively speaking, under the policy of "Killing Home Rule with Kindness".

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #194
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Irish people just don't learn. You only need to look at the amount of hideous SUV's around the place. The same people made the same mistakes in 05-07.
    The dinner party discussion is now back to wages, house prices, etc, after years of negative equity and unemployment. Because when Paddy has a few quid Paddy spends it.
    There is also a huge amount of societal pressure in Ireland. People who live on the cheap are viewed as tight arsss and misers which is wrong.
    I'm probably somewhere in the middle, "life is short" is fair enough but has to be balanced with the fact that unless you love working until 70-75 you'll have to work on a nest egg at some point.
    I definitely like the idea of saving in good time and spending in bad.
    Either way, I don't care how anyone lives. Once they don't cost me money, I don't care.
    Although I do have an aversion to people showing off their wealth and flaunting it, it happened in 07 and a lot of the status symbols disappeared soon after.
    It is hilarious that people link this to religion. In this day and age....


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    #195
    OleRodrigo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭OleRodrigo


    Life is certainly not short. If you're not unlucky health wise and if you look after yourself...you should live until your 80s. That is your actual genetic inheritance if you don't squander it.

    Thats enough time, by any reasonable measure, to do all the things that amount to a life well lived.

    Life is short?...Pah...more neurotic alarmism from the fatalistic, FOMO brigade.


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    #196
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    OleRodrigo wrote: »
    Life is certainly not short. If you're not unlucky health wise and if you look after yourself...you should live until your 80s. That is your actual genetic inheritance if you don't squander it.

    Thats enough time, by any reasonable measure, to do all the things that amount to a life well lived.

    Life is short?...Pah...more neurotic alarmism from the fatalistic, FOMO brigade.

    Its too short to waste it sitting in a cubicle to justify wasting money was my point! Maybe have another read.....


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    #197
    take everything
    Registered Users Posts: 9,800 ✭✭✭take everything


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    I think Irish people as a group have some kind of need to fill up a pit of despair or emptiness within themselves, be it conscious or unconscious, with all forms of 'enjoyment' eg alcohol, constant shopping. We want, want, want all the time and we keep filling up with temporary thrills. It's because we're very insecure and lacking in self esteem imo. People from other countries I think are able to get joy from simpler living. They manage to feel defined by who they are rather than what they have. Very small example but a French lady I know will invite you to her house for lunch and make a big deal about basically some crusty bread and a glass of wine. She is so relaxed she pulls it off beautifully. In reverse no Irish person would invite a guest for lunch and give them a slice of bread. And then there's the whole Danish hygge where if I understand it properly is all about embracing cosy simple pleasures. It's not enough for us here in Ireland to have enough, we want more all the time. Not everyone obviously but I definitely think success in Ireland is measured very much by how much you own.

    Quoted for truth.
    The Irish are quite immature in so many ways.
    Like a teenager who thinks they know everything.

    I wonder will they ever reach a proper maturity


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    #198
    OleRodrigo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭OleRodrigo


    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    Its too short to waste it sitting in a cubicle to justify wasting money was my point! Maybe have another read.....

    Nonsense. Sitting in a cubicle is called employment. Spending money is essential to economic vibrancy.


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    #199
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    OleRodrigo wrote: »
    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    Its too short to waste it sitting in a cubicle to justify wasting money was my point! Maybe have another read.....

    Nonsense. Sitting in a cubicle is called employment. Spending money is essential to economic vibrancy.

    We shall agree to differ, but I have no intention of sitting in a workplace cubicle until my 70s and wasting money all in a false justification of economic vibrancy!


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    #200
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Irish people saving more and paying down debts.

    https://twitter.com/seamuscoffey/status/1100442533883273218


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    #201
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    Irish people just don't learn. You only need to look at the amount of hideous SUV's around the place. The same people made the same mistakes in 05-07.
    The dinner party discussion is now back to wages, house prices, etc, after years of negative equity and unemployment. Because when Paddy has a few quid Paddy spends it.
    There is also a huge amount of societal pressure in Ireland. People who live on the cheap are viewed as tight arsss and misers which is wrong.
    I'm probably somewhere in the middle, "life is short" is fair enough but has to be balanced with the fact that unless you love working until 70-75 you'll have to work on a nest egg at some point.
    I definitely like the idea of saving in good time and spending in bad.
    Either way, I don't care how anyone lives. Once they don't cost me money, I don't care.
    Although I do have an aversion to people showing off their wealth and flaunting it, it happened in 07 and a lot of the status symbols disappeared soon after.
    It is hilarious that people link this to religion. In this day and age....

    The evidence is against this. This is a fairly post colonial thread with its “the Irish” this and “paddy that”


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    #202
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    The evidence is against this. This is a fairly post colonial thread with its “the Irish” this and “paddy that”


    People boasting about their Quaker thriftiness?
    It's an eye-opener to see that some still cling onto their old prejudices.


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    #203
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    The hospital cost overrun/ massive increase was not caused by any lack of frugality. It was caused by a combination of greed and incompetence.


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    #204
    NewbridgeIR
    Registered Users Posts: 3,716 ✭✭✭NewbridgeIR


    Una's a leftie. In my experience, quite a few lefties are slow to buy their round. This meanness is also notable in restaurants where they will try and persuade me to go halves on a particular dish to save money.


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    #205
    LeBash
    Registered Users Posts: 3,505 ✭✭✭LeBash


    There's all sorts in Ireland, not just the 2 extremes.

    I held my old car for 12 years cause there was nothing wrong with it but go on 2 nice holidays per year and save. I know plenty who do similar.

    I know others who go missing for their round or give out about parting with any money and I know a lad who owed 70k, sold his 2nd house for 40k, well below the value, paid 30k and bought a brand new suv on tick just paying the deposit with the 10k left.

    We see people blowing all their cash when we are out and about but we don't see people living well within reason cause they aren't out and aren't living or driving something fancy that catches the eye.

    Head to Frankfurt and see how fancy the Germans Lord it up around the opera house and the financial area, it's also the home of protestants, so the religious argument is waffle.


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    #206
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    take everything wrote: »
    Quoted for truth.
    The Irish are quite immature in so many ways.
    Like a teenager who thinks they know everything.

    I wonder will they ever reach a proper maturity

    I wonder where people get this self hate from. You talk about maturity when we're an island that progressed from a staunchly religious country to a country with a gay, half-Irish half Indian Taoiseach, a country which voted in abortion, gay marriage and turned away from the Catholic church in droves. Moved from recession to the fastest growing EU economy for the last three years.

    I work in the UK and the US. Two entities either side of Ireland. One of those has voted in a reality TV star as president and the other has voted to leave the largest single market in the world. You'll excuse me if I take your views with a pinch of salt.


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