Poaching on RTE

ayagerard

zeissman wrote: »

Let me give you an example of one poacher in my area.
He drives around at night and uses a thermal hand held unit to spot the deer.
He then takes out his thermal scope add on that clips onto his rifle scope and shoots the deer.
There are no lamps involved. They will usually have a second vehicle to pick up the carcasses.
This guy was boasting that he shot 325 animals last year. This would be all reds so you can imagine how much money he is making.
These guys have firearms licences and deer hunting permits and the carcasses are sold to legitimate game dealers.

back in the 80s there was a man i know that payed for building his house out of fox s their best night was 74 fox @ £15 between 3 lads not a bad income on top of the dole and they were out 6 nights a week 1 nov til 1 march
i was in cork last year ,said i would have a look at whats new and get some ammo ,in the shop were 3 non nationals buying viperflex sticks the expensive ones they got one each one chap had a licence for 243 and bought 200 rounds,
felt bad really when my turn came and i was only getting 40 rounds and my 100euro was minced ,the lad behind the counter said more than half his trade fas from non nats ,
well they wont be using the sticks at the range ,or the 243 at rabbits and i would like to see the permission they have from a farmer or land owner these were of eastern decent , between rainbow trout and venison they are living well i think with the rest for the game dealer or restaurant they have a few a few bob in their pocket

nophd08

zeissman wrote: »

Let me give you an example of one poacher in my area.
He drives around at night and uses a thermal hand held unit to spot the deer.
He then takes out his thermal scope add on that clips onto his rifle scope and shoots the deer.
There are no lamps involved. They will usually have a second vehicle to pick up the carcasses.
This guy was boasting that he shot 325 animals last year. This would be all reds so you can imagine how much money he is making.
These guys have firearms licences and deer hunting permits and the carcasses are sold to legitimate game dealers.

Has this poacher been reported?

zeissman

nophd08 wrote: »

Has this poacher been reported?

Of course so but he still Seems to be getting away with it.

Grizzly 45

gozunda wrote: »

Your quotation is all over the place btw. I
What's is your point? I've also heard an account of this from a garda. That some of the guns are being included with drugs shipments as "sweeteners" to seal a deal. So no I don't doubt it. Seems that theres plenty of illegal shotguns and other firearms available to these guys. If they can smuggle in large quantities of drugs shy not firearms as well? Btw I picked three news stories at random. They cover the last decade. But hey believe whatever you like. Ive stated an opinion based on experience and what I've learned from news reports and direct . If you don't like that tough. There you go.

Ok...Whatever...:rolleyes:

aaakev

Ah jasus, my .243 looks exactly like that ".243 poachers rifle with all the bells and whistles"....

i wouldn't mind but superintendent Martin Walker is a guard who is supposedly knowledgeable on firearms! If i was stopped by one of those guards at that attended that training event id probably be done for poaching along with the rest of the lads here who do a bit of lamping!

Grizzly 45

zeissman wrote: »

Let me give you an example of one poacher in my area.
He drives around at night and uses a thermal hand held unit to spot the deer.
He then takes out his thermal scope add on that clips onto his rifle scope and shoots the deer.
There are no lamps involved. They will usually have a second vehicle to pick up the carcasses.
This guy was boasting that he shot 325 animals last year. This would be all reds so you can imagine how much money he is making.
These guys have firearms licences and deer hunting permits and the carcasses are sold to legitimate game dealers.

This is the kind of tool who will get caught eventually because he cant keep his big mouth shut!An undercover sting operation would close him down very quickly,but thats not going to happen here.But that's whats needed to shut down people like this.
He's probably making like anyone else about 1.50 per kg on the carcass.His buyer is making about 400 euro on the carcass.

mulbot

ayagerard wrote: »

back in the 80s there was a man i know that payed for building his house out of fox s their best night was 74 fox @ £15 between 3 lads not a bad income on top of the dole and they were out 6 nights a week 1 nov til 1 march
i was in cork last year ,said i would have a look at whats new and get some ammo ,in the shop were 3 non nationals buying viperflex sticks the expensive ones they got one each one chap had a licence for 243 and bought 200 rounds,
felt bad really when my turn came and i was only getting 40 rounds and my 100euro was minced ,the lad behind the counter said more than half his trade fas from non nats ,
well they wont be using the sticks at the range ,or the 243 at rabbits and i would like to see the permission they have from a farmer or land owner these were of eastern decent , between rainbow trout and venison they are living well i think with the rest for the game dealer or restaurant they have a few a few bob in their pocket

Why could they not be using the sticks for day hunting? If they have a license for a. 243 they obviously have permission from landowners.

Grizzly 45

On the subject of on nationals poaching
If you go thru the HCAP lists of who qualified for their course over the last
six years.Quite interesting to see how many non-Irish names there are there too. When in Rome,an all that.;)

Benny mcc

My friend is Lithuanian and he has a 243 and three permissions, deer license and is mad about shooting. All above board no nonsense. For his birthday everyone gave him money towards a new gun. Don't paint all with the one brush!!

Kat1170

Grizzly 45 wrote:

On the subject of on nationals poaching If you go thru the HCAP lists of who qualified for their course over the last six years.Quite interesting to see how many non-Irish names there are there too. When in Rome,an all that.

Probably a lot of German tourists looking to shoot here due to everything here being so lax compared to back home, or so we're constantly told

Birdnuts

According to a story in the IFG the production of farmed deer in this country has collapsed since 2016 - which begs the question, is wild venison now more popular and is that what is driving current poaching rates??

ayagerard

mulbot wrote: »

Why could they not be using the sticks for day hunting? If they have a license for a. 243 they obviously have permission from landowners.

what i said was i would like to see the permission they had be it from a farmer or a land owner , these were neither Lithuanian polish or Czech either, and if they knocked at your door looking for hot water , i would also like to see your reaction when they left

Grizzly 45

Kat1170 wrote: »

Probably a lot of German tourists looking to shoot here due to everything here being so lax compared to back home, or so we're constantly told

Be very unlike Germans to go around lamping and threatning the locals.

Grizzly 45

Birdnuts wrote: »

According to a story in the IFG the production of farmed deer in this country has collapsed since 2016 - which begs the question, is wild venison now more popular and is that what is driving current poaching rates??

Cheaper option.No need to invest in land,farming,stock,fencing,dealing with the dept of Ag livestock regulations and all the hassle of running a farm and ligit busisness.

mulbot

ayagerard wrote: »

what i said was i would like to see the permission they had be it from a farmer or a land owner , these were neither Lithuanian polish or Czech either, and if they knocked at your door looking for hot water , i would also like to see your reaction when they left

More confused now.

Kat1170

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Be very unlike Germans to go around lamping and threatning the locals.

History says otherwise ;):D

Vegeta

aaakev wrote: »

Ah jasus, my .243 looks exactly like that ".243 poachers rifle with all the bells and whistles"....

i wouldn't mind but superintendent Martin Walker is a guard who is supposedly knowledgeable on firearms! If i was stopped by one of those guards at that attended that training event id probably be done for poaching along with the rest of the lads here who do a bit of lamping!

I agree, while poaching deer is indeed a problem I would not like to see night time shooting outright banned because of it and this is exactly what this smells like to me, Gardai trying to influence policy.

The cynical part of me thinks this is deer shooting associations making lots of noise to try and get night time shooting banned. This of course would crap all over people trying to control fox populations at night. It would also just mean more lads using night vision. I also say all of this as a deer hunter myself.

So if you even get a whiff of our own people pushing this, tell them where to go. We do not want more restrictions, it's a difficult enough sport for young people to get into as it is.

We have said it a million times, all the legislation required is in place. Enforcement (funding the guys on the ground) and sensible sentences are what is needed.

Kat1170

Stop game dealers paying cash. The problem will almost disappear overnight.

Also stop scrap metal dealers paying cash, two problems almost wiped out instantly. I say almost because neither will ever be gotten rid of completely.

Grizzly 45

Kat1170 wrote: »

History says otherwise ;):D

Nah,we've changed alot since then,and don't mention the war!:D

Grizzly 45

Kat1170 wrote: »

Stop game dealers paying cash. The problem will almost disappear overnight.

Also stop scrap metal dealers paying cash, two problems almost wiped out instantly. I say almost because neither will ever be gotten rid of completely.

Better idea shut down the buying of wild deer carcasses for a five-year moratorium by game dealers.That will revive the deer farm industry, allow the pouplation of wild to either recover or at least be finally officially counted, and make the "aisey money" merchants move onto their next racket

ayagerard

Vegeta wrote: »

I agree, while poaching deer is indeed a problem I would not like to see night time shooting outright banned because of it and this is exactly what this smells like to me, Gardai trying to influence policy.

The cynical part of me thinks this is deer shooting associations making lots of noise to try and get night time shooting banned. This of course would crap all over people trying to control fox populations at night. It would also just mean more lads using night vision. I also say all of this as a deer hunter myself.

So if you even get a whiff of our own people pushing this, tell them where to go. We do not want more restrictions, it's a difficult enough sport for young people to get into as it is.

We have said it a million times, all the legislation required is in place. Enforcement (funding the guys on the ground) and sensible sentences are what is needed.

i agree with this as i haven't seen a guard or a warden in yonks haven't been stopped by a guard in ten years or more and never met or seen a warden in relation to shooting, more wardens are needed and need to be moved around during the hunting season , the guards need to be educated and a presence seen in isolated areas as well as towns and cities , isn't it their job what they are payed to do, [up hold the law] and question or arrest any one breaking it ,
god for bid i got stopped this evening coming through town by these highly educated gardi after 8 o clock with my blaser and a deer in the back by the time i would have explained where i shot that deer and shown him he would have to see where i gralloched the deer as proof it would be the last time he would ask that question could be over a mile of a drag across a bog to start and up hill from there and if he did follow me i would give him credit ,

every deer hunter is issued with a number on his licence that number should follow any deer through the game dealer and into the restaurant or on for the exporter no rocket science needed and tally when the hunter applies for his new licence any one shooting more than 10 deer a year for sale needs to hold a receipt for all deer sold , or should that be for every one sold , no grey areas, still no cost to any one involved no cash payed by dealers , now there 4500 hunter licences in ireland 1500 of these might sell a deer or two or twenty but you wont need a firm of accountants to figure it out 3 weeke one accountants wage and let revenue be dealing with it after that as they have the most to gain
most of the shooting associations shamed themselves pitifully the last time round when they tried to impose a night time ban without the will of hunters they were supposed to be representing farmers they thought should only work from 8-6 and tell mister fox there is a curfew and he would only hunt by day in all aspects it is madness gone wrong
deer associations and commissions every one off them have only one thing in common and that is your money for their gain , they will invent courses to show you how to pick your own nose if you are gullible to listen to them, hunting has been there while man has existed
we have the lowest no of hunting accidents in the eu the most ledligistlated and restrictive gun laws in the eu no more regulations or bans are needed what is needed tho is people that will implement the legislation and laws that we have, in other words to do what you are payed to do in the first place

Grizzly 45

A small tip to NPWS for recruiting;
1]It would be a fierce help to yourselves if you didn't expect 3rd level degree carrying college kids to perform a ridiculous workload for very little money.
What you are offering is well below the industrial or civil service wage and it would cost people to work for you.

2] Instead of looking for degree trained wardens, the kind who wouldn't recognise a deer snare or fish trap, even if they were stuck in one themselves.:rolleyes: How about something rad? Try recruiting folks who actually DO have hunting and shooting experience, gained the hard way out in the fields after years of hunting and shooting? There are plenty of us who will work for the offered wages, and actually, do something for the money, not skulk in the office all day "doing paperwork, waiting for a sure thing"?

3] Maybe break up the "all in the family" kind of cartels you are rumoured to have?

4] What is the point in asking the question on your application form, three times in basic bureaucratese,mid-level bureaucratese, and high-level bureaucratese? You are going to get the same answer and jargon, which proves that you want an apparatchik, not a ranger? Try asking in plain ol Queens English, you might have more takers? Seeing that no one can find out where these positions actually filled last year?

Vizzy

ayagerard wrote: »

i agree with this as i haven't seen a guard or a warden in yonks haven't been stopped by a guard in ten years or more and never met or seen a warden in relation to shooting, more wardens are needed and need to be moved around during the hunting season , the guards need to be educated and a presence seen in isolated areas as well as towns and cities , isn't it their job what they are payed to do, [up hold the law] and question or arrest any one breaking it

I wish I were so lucky !!

Have regularly gone out to lamp foxes, rang the landowner to tell him I was on the way. Walked a few fields only to come back to the car with the Gardaí waiting for me cos they have received a report of "lamps shining all over the place" by a neighbour.
Wouldn't mind but a lot of the Gardaí know my car.

Might need to look at IR as an alternative.

ayagerard

Vizzy wrote: »

I wish I were so lucky !!

Have regularly gone out to lamp foxes, rang the landowner to tell him I was on the way. Walked a few fields only to come back to the car with the Gardaí waiting for me cos they have received a report of "lamps shining all over the place" by a neighbour.
Wouldn't mind but a lot of the Gardaí know my car.

Might need to look at IR as an alternative.

even if they didn't know your car tip tap on their computer or radio would inlighten them , if i had permission from the farmer for the ground i was on and there was on question in my mind that i was breaking any law the guards in the car would remember me by the time i came back , but on a lighter note i would be delighted if not impressed to see guards out checking cars stopped in rural areas at night with the amount of light fingered individuals glowing around here anyway more so than the lights , you have nothing to fear from the guards when you have done no harm and have your permission

Vizzy

TBH, I have no issue with being stopped at all. Have everything in order before I go out. No issue with the neighbour ringing them either. As you say, I am delighted that the Gardaí are making themselves seen in rural areas.
Unfortunately, as was said on the programme there are "groups of individuals" who have made it necessary.
Have a friend in the Club who shot 168 foxes in 2015. Last year he shot 14.

He has now gone IR and has 12 in the last month (only has the IR that long)

tikkamark

Kat1170 wrote: »

Stop game dealers paying cash. The problem will almost disappear overnight.

Also stop scrap metal dealers paying cash, two problems almost wiped out instantly. I say almost because neither will ever be gotten rid of completely.

Nail on the head^^^ It’s like anything in this country when it comes to money every greedy Tom dick and harry will take advantage of the situation

Cass

Vegeta wrote: »

The cynical part of me thinks this is deer shooting associations making lots of noise to try and get night time shooting banned..

It's not paranoia when they're actually out to get ya.

We discussed this at length and just because it's gone from our minds does not mean the vested interest groups have given up on it.

Eddie B

Finnaly got to watch this. As far as illegal traps are concerned, all that were displayed on the table, were easily recognisable as illegal. You had gins, longspring, coilspring, glue traps and songbird traps. They also mentioned larson traps. And i suppose, this would be included in the course, because if a call bird is not looked after properly, then the owner of the trap is liable for prosecution.

dodderangler

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

gozunda wrote: »

G
A

SERIOUSLY???Do you know what one of those guns cost on the black market?? Try about 4 K for a Glock 9mm new in the grease, double that for an AK type rifle, and the sky is the limit for any special order type gun,if it can be got.

Black market prices are NEVER cheaper in anything than the normal market. Those guns mentioned in the article[, rather historical events now, going by the dates on those links] were STOLEN firearms off gun owners here in the Republic, not imports.
You wouldn't last very long in the underworld here, handing out highly expensive firearms imported at great risk,to let Anto and Joxer off into the wilds to go deer poaching. They get caught, what's the chance they will turn rats on you to the Guards? Or decide to bump you off one day?Or flog the gun to someone else down in the pub?No,we aren't here in the Gang banga,"pop a cap in yo ass !" East LA gang culture where guns are more easily available and every Homie do be carryin who be in da gang!" Even though it seems to be like that in Dublin these days.:pac:

Why would you import a BA rifle, which is a specialist tool, and unless you happen to have an ex-military sniper on your gang list, is worthless for assaniation here when an AK or MAC 10 would be much more effective that you can give to any scumbag who you have paid and drugged up enough to do a hit?
The risk Vs the gain in deer poaching here in Ireland for a high-grade professional criminal involved in drugs,would be sheer stupidity and not worth the game.
Lower level trash involved in selling ten spots down outside the school,or badger baiting or dog fighting, maybe.

10 spots? Jaysus times are getting tough

tac foley

Collie D wrote: »

His point is that while nobody doubts illegal firearms are coming in to the country with drug shipments it's a massive stretch to think that these guns (most likely hand and/or machine guns) are being used for poaching.

Poaching is more likely to be done by someone you know from the local pub with a licensed gun than a “real” criminal who would have a better use for his new toy than a bit of free meat.

See post #28.