Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

Paul Smeenus

Jackman thinks Kleyn will start ahead of Henderson for Scotland.

errlloyd

molloyjh wrote: »

Q

Sexton passed 23 times and kicked 7 times. For some reason his number if runs isn't on UR but he def carried a bit as well. So he had over 30 involvements in 63 minutes. Given the fact that Wales had over 80% possession in the opening quarter that's a fair amount. Murray played an extra 8 mins and passed 98 times so it's safe to say that around 1 in 3 passes went to 10.

I wonder why ESPN got rid of stats for amount of kicks?

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

I wonder why ESPN got rid of stats for amount of kicks?

I dunno but they disappeared shortly after I saw VanGraan and Stander at Kildare village. Coincidence? I think not.

Wegians89

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Jackman thinks Kleyn will start ahead of Henderson for Scotland.

Tbh while I don’t agree with it, I think it could happen. Kleyn isn’t one for the bench.

sydthebeat

thesiegeof wrote: »

I don't think New Zealand will win the World Cup, they definitely don't have as good a team as they've had at previous World Cups but, they have enough to beat us comfortably in my opinion. I think our style of play is going to look very outdated.

The last time new Zealand "beat us comfortably" was 6 years ago.

We have played them 4 times since and won two. The other two being hard dog fights.

In my opinion we've gotten better since and they haven't. South Africa have though....but starting from quite a low base.

Anyway, to date it's all subjective. Let's just say I haven't seen much in the last 2-3 years to say that NZ would have a comfortable win against us.

Former Former

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Jackman thinks Kleyn will start ahead of Henderson for Scotland.

Hmmm. Couldn't agree with it but wouldn't be shocked either.

Kleyn looks to be a bit off the pace in terms of fitness. Thought he was very slow to the breakdown on Saturday, looked to be blowing hard early on.

Paul Smeenus

Former Former wrote: »

Hmmm. Couldn't agree with it but wouldn't be shocked either.

Kleyn looks to be a bit off the pace in terms of fitness. Thought he was very slow to the breakdown on Saturday, looked to be blowing hard early on.

I'd be fairly taken aback. Henderson is a much, much better player, and preferred as a line-out caller to Ryan.

Shefwedfan

thesiegeof wrote: »

I don't think New Zealand will win the World Cup, they definitely don't have as good a team as they've had at previous World Cups but, they have enough to beat us comfortably in my opinion. I think our style of play is going to look very outdated.

Lets look at our recent history


Ireland 16 NZ 9

Ireland 9 NZ 21
Ireland 40 NZ 29
Ireland 22 NZ 24


Not much between either team going right back to 2013....the season before that was the tour of NZ when Ireland should have won the second test

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I'd be fairly taken aback. Henderson is a much, much better player, and preferred as a line-out caller to Ryan.

Ireland's two best 40 minutes of rugby this season...

1st half v France
2nd half v Wales (last weekend)

Second row pairing in each occasion

Ryan and Henderson.

They are hugely physical and dominate the opposition.

Kleyn might have the attributes but he just isn't as good a player as either Henderson or Ryan.

Shefwedfan

bilston wrote: »

Ireland's two best 40 minutes of rugby this season...

1st half v France
2nd half v Wales (last weekend)

Second row pairing in each occasion

Ryan and Henderson.

They are hugely physical and dominate the opposition.

Kleyn might have the attributes but he just isn't as good a player as either Henderson or Ryan.

Also had a backrow after 20 min in France game of Conan, POM, Stander


Weekend it was Conan VDF, Stander

ionadnapokot

bilston wrote: »

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I'd be fairly taken aback. Henderson is a much, much better player, and preferred as a line-out caller to Ryan.

Ireland's two best 40 minutes of rugby this season...

1st half v France
2nd half v Wales (last weekend)

Second row pairing in each occasion

Ryan and Henderson.

They are hugely physical and dominate the opposition.

Kleyn might have the attributes but he just isn't as good a player as either Henderson or Ryan.

I can’t see Kleyn even making the bench based on his performances in the 3 warm-ups. As regards his physical attributes I saw him stop North in his tracks and also clear AWJones out of ruck. Both in the 1st half. After hitting another ruck on the HT mark he slowly picked himself up and trudged off. I’m not impressed. Toner must be really miles off. I’m still very concerned about the Lineout.

The only benefit to Kleyn starting or benching is that it would relieve Ryan of the burden of scrummaging on the TH side.
Interestingly Beirne packed down at 5 in every match he played for Munster this season.
For Scotland game I’d go with
4. Henderson 5. Ryan; POM, VdF, CJ 19. Beirne 20. Conan
Lineout must also be a more important consideration than the scrum v Scotland. Again I didn’t see what Kleyn will bring there. He claimed 1 Lineout in the three games?

thesiegeof

sydthebeat wrote: »

The last time new Zealand "beat us comfortably" was 6 years ago.

We have played them 4 times since and won two. The other two being hard dog fights.

In my opinion we've gotten better since and they haven't. South Africa have though....but starting from quite a low base.

Anyway, to date it's all subjective. Let's just say I haven't seen much in the last 2-3 years to say that NZ would have a comfortable win against us.

It was great to win against New Zealand and all that but there's a difference between November internationals and the World Cup. Also, we got better up to last year, this year has been a struggle and one win against Wales at home is not proof that we've turned things around. All opinions anyway, hopefully we're going to peak at the right time and have a lot ready to spring come quarter final time.

thesiegeof

Kleyn shouldn't be in this conversation. Henderson is a far superior player. Kleyn shouldn't even bench.

bilston

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Also had a backrow after 20 min in France game of Conan, POM, Stander


Weekend it was Conan VDF, Stander

For me the back row is wide open.

JVDF has to be nailed on, but Conan plays 8 and CJ puts in his best performance in a while at 6. Realistically POM starts, his lineout work alone has to be a factor. Right now I'd be going Conan at 8, Stander to come on around 55-60 mins.

Anyway, haven't done this yet, but here's my team...

1 Healy
2 Best
3 Furlong
4 Henderson
5 Ryan
6 O'Mahony
7 Van Der Flier
8 Conan
9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Stockdale
12 Aki
13 Henshaw/Ringrose
14 Earls
15 Kearney

16 Cronin
17 Kilcoyne
18 Porter
19 Beirne
20 Stander
21 McGrath
22 Carbery
23 Ringrose/Henshaw

I can't call 13 at all. I'm a big Ringrose fan, but Henshaw was really good on Saturday. Crucially he was strong defensively which is always a bit of a worry with him in that wider channel.

Earls starts, but a lack of minutes is a bit of a concern, maybe Conway could start against Scotland with Earls getting minutes against Japan, Russia and Samoa and then being ready to go for the Q/F.

Kilcoyne is playing really well, I'd expect Healy to start, but Kilcoyne can't do much more. I just think the ability to bring on Kilcoyne, Cronin and Porter in the 20-25 minutes is huge. It's actually a massive asset, more than we probably appreciate.

AbusesToilets

bilston wrote: »

For me the back row is wide open.

JVDF has to be nailed on, but Conan plays 8 and CJ puts in his best performance in a while at 6. Realistically POM starts, his lineout work alone has to be a factor. Right now I'd be going Conan at 8, Stander to come on around 55-60 mins.

Anyway, haven't done this yet, but here's my team...

1 Healy
2 Best
3 Furlong
4 Henderson
5 Ryan
6 O'Mahony
7 Van Der Flier
8 Conan
9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Stockdale
12 Aki
13 Henshaw/Ringrose
14 Earls
15 Kearney

16 Cronin
17 Kilcoyne
18 Porter
19 Beirne
20 Stander
21 McGrath
22 Carbery
23 Ringrose/Henshaw

I can't call 13 at all. I'm a big Ringrose fan, but Henshaw was really good on Saturday. Crucially he was strong defensively which is always a bit of a worry with him in that wider channel.

Earls starts, but a lack of minutes is a bit of a concern, maybe Conway could start against Scotland with Earls getting minutes against Japan, Russia and Samoa and then being ready to go for the Q/F.

Kilcoyne is playing really well, I'd expect Healy to start, but Kilcoyne can't do much more. I just think the ability to bring on Kilcoyne, Cronin and Porter in the 20-25 minutes is huge. It's actually a massive asset, more than we probably appreciate.

I don't think we need POM at all for the lineout, some combo of the backrow we played on the weekend has to start imo.

ionadnapokot

AbusesToilets wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

For me the back row is wide open.

JVDF has to be nailed on, but Conan plays 8 and CJ puts in his best performance in a while at 6. Realistically POM starts, his lineout work alone has to be a factor. Right now I'd be going Conan at 8, Stander to come on around 55-60 mins.

Anyway, haven't done this yet, but here's my team...

1 Healy
2 Best
3 Furlong
4 Henderson
5 Ryan
6 O'Mahony
7 Van Der Flier
8 Conan
9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Stockdale
12 Aki
13 Henshaw/Ringrose
14 Earls
15 Kearney

16 Cronin
17 Kilcoyne
18 Porter
19 Beirne
20 Stander
21 McGrath
22 Carbery
23 Ringrose/Henshaw

I can't call 13 at all. I'm a big Ringrose fan, but Henshaw was really good on Saturday. Crucially he was strong defensively which is always a bit of a worry with him in that wider channel.

Earls starts, but a lack of minutes is a bit of a concern, maybe Conway could start against Scotland with Earls getting minutes against Japan, Russia and Samoa and then being ready to go for the Q/F.

Kilcoyne is playing really well, I'd expect Healy to start, but Kilcoyne can't do much more. I just think the ability to bring on Kilcoyne, Cronin and Porter in the 20-25 minutes is huge. It's actually a massive asset, more than we probably appreciate.

I don't think we need POM at all for the lineout, some combo of the backrow we played on the weekend has to start imo.

You would be very much in the minority if you don’t think POM adds value to the Lineout.
I would think he’s nailed on. Now more than ever in Toners absence.

He’s also a big game player, a leader, and despite not been at his best in 2019 managed a MOTM v Scotland.

Shefwedfan

ionadnapokot wrote: »

You would be very much in the minority if you don’t think POM adds value to the Lineout.
I would think he’s nailed on. Now more than ever in Toners absence.

He’s also a big game player, a leader, and despite not been at his best in 2019 managed a MOTM v Scotland.

I listen to rog earlier, he was trying to sign Pom praises but it didn’t come across great

Especially the bit when he said to not expect a huge work rate from POM

The Rape of Lucretia

typhoony wrote: »

beating Scotland will be a difficult task, having watched there warm-up games they seem to have developed the style of play that almost brought them a win against England, also the players have bulked up from what I can see, added power also.

What in the name of Zeus is the interest in beating Scotland?
If ever there were a dead rubber, that game is it. The making or breaking of this campaign is the quarter final. Have our first choice, fully healthy for that game, is all that matters.

Ruddock was a beast when he came on at the Weekend. I thought he was the pick of the bench and added a lot.

I think we are all expecting POM, VDF, Stander in two weeks against the Scots.

But I honestly wouldn't be surprised with almost any combination of our available back rows. I don't think there is much that separates any of them bar VDF being the most natural openside.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1171120625076846592?s=19

Squidgy Black

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But I honestly wouldn't be surprised with almost any combination of our available back rows. I don't think there is much that separates any of them bar VDF being the most only natural openside.

Fixed that for you. VdF's the only actual openside in the squad. POM and Ruddock don't come close to being a true openside in the sense that VdF fills that gap, the closest they come to it is the '6.5' role that Eddie Jones used to be a big fan of.

Former Former

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I'd be fairly taken aback. Henderson is a much, much better player, and preferred as a line-out caller to Ryan.

Well, Toner is a much better player too, yet here we are.

I dunno. Kleyn would seem to be the opposite of an impact sub so maybe you start him or nothing. And 'nothing' seems to be off the table.

kingofthekong

ionadnapokot wrote: »

You would be very much in the minority if you don’t think POM adds value to the Lineout.
I would think he’s nailed on. Now more than ever in Toners absence.

He’s also a big game player, a leader, and despite not been at his best in 2019 managed a MOTM v Scotland.

oh for christ sake - weve been hearing hes a big game player all season to camouflage how average he has been - he could be bloody Michael jordan in the lineouts and I still wouldnt pick him

You cannot pick a player who literally does nothing but take a couple lineouts per game he has one of the lowest tackle/carry numbers i've ever seen on an international backrow and other backrows also do lineouts, carry and tackle you gotta be able to do all three

hes been a passenger for most of the season, having one good game every hundred is not enough to guarantee you spot in the no.1 ranked international team in the world...

Name another country in the top 5 he would start for........none so he shouldnt start for us

Reward the players who got the result last week and lets give some time for Stander, Conan and VDJ to gel together and become a better unit

99problems1

typhoony wrote: »

Sexton on the Off The Ball just now confirming it wasn't sportsmanship by Biggar, instead sexton reckons it was offside and should have gone back for a penalty.

This is what I was thinking at the time. Not that it was offside, but that there could be an advantage by admitting it yourself and not going to the TMO.

Biggar could have knocked it on for example and they wouldn't have seen it.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

Well, Toner is a much better player too, yet here we are.

I dunno. Kleyn would seem to be the opposite of an impact sub so maybe you start him or nothing. And 'nothing' seems to be off the table.

I dunno, seems he’s completely capable of making an impact to me

If you’re the type of coach who isn’t completely opposed to using a reserve scrum half, he’d surely be an ideal guy to bring on at the same time that you make that change.

Cookiemunster

kingofthekong wrote: »

oh for christ sake - weve been hearing hes a big game player all season to camouflage how average he has been - he could be bloody Michael jordan in the lineouts and I still wouldnt pick him

You cannot pick a player who literally does nothing but take a couple lineouts per game he has one of the lowest tackle/carry numbers i've ever seen on an international backrow and other backrows also do lineouts, carry and tackle you gotta be able to do all three

hes been a passenger for most of the season, having one good game every hundred is not enough to guarantee you spot in the no.1 ranked international team in the world...

Name another country in the top 5 he would start for........none so he shouldnt start for us

Reward the players who got the result last week and lets give some time for Stander, Conan and VDJ to gel together and become a better unit

I think you're going to very disappointed with the team selection for Scotland. I'd be shocked if he doesn't go with POM, VDF and Stander (deserving or not).

lawrencesummers

The bias around here is amazing, some people just can’t and will never be able to look past their provincial bias.

It must make for terrible viewing to see players in the national team that you effectively just don’t like, no matter how good they are.

Kleyn still doesn’t deserve to be in the squad according to some people, where Joe made the decision and he is the best coach going, but that's not good enough as people are unwilling to actually analyze his entire performance.

Kearney looks in exceptional form, he totally outplayed halfpenny the last day, yet people want him dropped.

Others say Conan deserves to start ahead of Stander due to his recent form and because Stander was poor against England, ignoring the performance of both in the last Welsh game where stander had a much better game.

Any suggestion of killcoyne getting ahead of Healy because of the same recent form argument is ridiculous because Healy has been playing so well for 2 years.

I’m sure you will all enjoy the World Cup a lot better if for the next 2 months you don’t see Munster / Leinster / South African / Ulster / Connacht players just IRISH.

irishbucsfan

Was it not the last time we beat New Zealand that POM was MOTM?

kingofthekong

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Was it not the last time we beat New Zealand that POM was MOTM?

Lol hope thats sarcasm

kingofthekong

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I think you're going to very disappointed with the team selection for Scotland. I'd be shocked if he doesn't go with POM, VDF and Stander (deserving or not).

We'll see, I hope your wrong but your probably correct