Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Mad_maxx

1641 wrote: »

jeonahr wrote: »

Source please, I had read somewhere that the average nurse’s pay was just under the national average. My father is a senior nurse with almost 20 years experience in this country alone and only earns €30,000-€35,000 per annum and this is usually with a minimum of one day overtime every week.[/QUOTE]


In response to questions from The Irish Times, the Department of Public Expenditure later released figures which show that average pay for nurses is €57-58,000 a year when allowances and premium payments are included. It also said 83 per cent of nurses and midwives earn over €40,000 in basic salary, excluding allowances.


As regards your father's alleged annual earnings, how is that even possible? Excluding allowances and premiums, the basic staff nurse scale goes far higher than this.

Old Union tutored trick of only quoting NET pay after tax

Mocadonna

backspin. wrote: »

With their allowances they could easily rise to well over 50K, in line with the other grades they compare themselves to. If they get their 12% payrise will they then be earning more than OT's and Radiographers and Physios when you take account of the allowances etc.

We are told we can't take the allowances into account by the nurses though - neglecting the fact the other grades get none of these. A 12% pay rise would see a nurse earning significantly more than the OT they work with. Would this be fair or right? I'd need to hear from an OT and OT nurse really to know.

If this is the road they want to go down I can see the OT saying you earn more than me - you do my job... and we're into pay disputes for everyone.

alloywheel

Mocadonna wrote: »

We are told we can't take the allowances into account by the nurses though

Allowances are part of their income though. Of course they should be taken in to account.

"the HSE has provided contrasting figures showing the average pay — including allowances and other extras for unsociable hours — comes to €57,000."
https://www.thesun.ie/news/3715917/irish-nurses-salaries-comparison-teachers-gardai-strike/

backspin.

Mocadonna wrote: »

We are told we can't take the allowances into account by the nurses though - neglecting the fact the other grades get none of these. A 12% pay rise would see a nurse earning significantly more than the OT they work with. Would this be fair or right?.

It would certainly not be right, nurses get paid training and to be honest its a relatively new degree qualified profession. 20 years ago it didn't require a degree and many would say it still shouldn't.

I think their choices are stay as things are with their current wage + allowances or drop the allowances and get paid the same as an OT or Physio. But its ridiculous to think they should be paid better than those other professions. Especially considering the much higher points requirements to get in to university to study those subjects and where there are far fewer opportunities once qualified.

If you qualify as a dietitian or a radiographer you'd be lucky to get a job near where you live. The same is not the case for nurses.

STB.

facehugger99 wrote: »

Whereas you seem like the nicest nurse on the ward.

I'm not caring enough to be one I'm afraid. Besides the money is shít.

1641

Mocadonna wrote: »

We are told we can't take the allowances into account by the nurses though - neglecting the fact the other grades get none of these.

Absolutely not. Sile wouldn't allow that. And after tax income only - for part-timers!

Any nursing reps about that could explain these, who gets them, amount, etc.?

Qualification Entitlement/Allowance
Dual Qualified Allowance
Sunday Allowance
Sunday Premium
Night Duty Allowance
Unit Allowance
Nurse Coordinator Allowance
Specialist Coordinator Allowance
Community Allowance
Nurse assigned to Occupational Therapy(Qualified)
Nurse assigned to Occupational Therapy (Unqualified)

Also, what is the overtime rate ? And is it the same for public holidays?

alloywheel

1641 wrote: »

Absolutely not. Sile wouldn't allow that. And after tax income only - for part-timers!

Any nursing reps about that could explain these, who gets them, amount, etc.?

Qualification Entitlement/Allowance
Dual Qualified Allowance
Sunday Allowance
Sunday Premium
Night Duty Allowance
Unit Allowance
Nurse Coordinator Allowance
Specialist Coordinator Allowance
Community Allowance
Nurse assigned to Occupational Therapy(Qualified)
Nurse assigned to Occupational Therapy (Unqualified)

Also, what is the overtime rate ? And is it the same for public holidays?

Do not hold your breath waiting for them to answer that. All they will say is "the money is ****". Even though various links were provided showing their average was €57,000.

Mocadonna

1641 wrote: »

Absolutely not. Sile wouldn't allow that. And after tax income only - for part-timers!

Any nursing reps about that could explain these, who gets them, amount, etc.?

Qualification Entitlement/Allowance
Dual Qualified Allowance
Sunday Allowance
Sunday Premium
Night Duty Allowance
Unit Allowance
Nurse Coordinator Allowance
Specialist Coordinator Allowance
Community Allowance
Nurse assigned to Occupational Therapy(Qualified)
Nurse assigned to Occupational Therapy (Unqualified)

Also, what is the overtime rate ? And is it the same for public holidays?

Ah no, a lot of these people go very quiet when asked direct questions such as this. A lot of the debate around is anecdotal and facts are thrown aside.

The only thing I will say is if you're working nights, weekends or are doing overtime you should absolutely be paid for this in my view. But that goes for all grades and all jobs. It is draining at times but once you take the payment for it you kind of lose any right to complain about it. That's coming from someone who does shift work though so I might be biased!

hawkelady

1641 wrote: »

Absolutely not. Sile wouldn't allow that. And after tax income only - for part-timers!

Any nursing reps about that could explain these, who gets them, amount, etc.?

Qualification Entitlement/Allowance
Dual Qualified Allowance
Sunday Allowance
Sunday Premium
Night Duty Allowance
Unit Allowance
Nurse Coordinator Allowance
Specialist Coordinator Allowance
Community Allowance
Nurse assigned to Occupational Therapy(Qualified)
Nurse assigned to Occupational Therapy (Unqualified)

Also, what is the overtime rate ? And is it the same for public holidays?

Wtf is sile ????? Are you really that uneducated ? Please get someone to proof read your tripe

STB.

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Convenient cherry picking

Thank you, I dumbed it down especially for you.

40% of our GDP goes to one source - where ?

Bailing out unsecured gambling bondholders and bank recapitalisation cost us how much ?

What was the cause of it all ? Was it how much nurses where being paid ?

alloywheel wrote: »

Do not hold your breath waiting for them to answer that. All they will say is "the money is ****". Even though various links were provided showing their average was €57,000.

You have no credibility. Still waiting for your source for the 100,000 nursing staff out of a staff compliment of 36,000 that YOU CLAIM take sick days every month there Einstein.

Mocadonna

backspin. wrote: »

It would certainly not be right, nurses get paid training and to be honest its a relatively new degree qualified profession. 20 years ago it didn't require a degree and many would say it still shouldn't.

I think their choices are stay as things are with their current wage + allowances or drop the allowances and get paid the same as an OT or Physio. But its ridiculous to think they should be paid better than those other professions. Especially considering the much higher points requirements to get in to university to study those subjects and where there are far fewer opportunities once qualified.

If you qualify as a dietitian or a radiographer you'd be lucky to get a job near where you live. The same is not the case for nurses.

Yeah I agree - I'm just trying to see if someone could provide any kind of compelling argument as to why this should be the case. Not "Sure all an OT does is fill out forms all day" or some such because I can't see one to be honest.

alloywheel

hawkelady wrote: »

Wtf is sile ????? Are you really that uneducated ? Please get someone to proof read your tripe

Charming reply. 1641 made a very relevant post, it is up to some nursing reps to explain these if they want to present their case. It has already been established , with a source, that "the HSE has provided contrasting figures showing the average pay — including allowances and other extras for unsociable hours — comes to €57,000."

backspin.

The trouble is if you give the Staff Nurses more then you have to give all the nursing grades above them more too. Public Health Nurses, Clinical Nurse Managers, Advanced Nurse Practitioner etc.

1641

hawkelady wrote: »

Wtf is sile ????? Are you really that uneducated ? Please get someone to proof read your tripe

Sorry, Sile = Phil. I am not sure what education has to do with remembering the name of the INMO big boss!



Now, are you ready to answer the question. You could further my education, seeing as you are interested in that department. Don't worry about typos. The facts will do.

craggyjack

1641 wrote: »

Absolutely not. Sile wouldn't allow that. And after tax income only - for part-timers!

Any nursing reps about that could explain these, who gets them, amount, etc.?

Qualification Entitlement/Allowance
Dual Qualified Allowance
Sunday Allowance
Sunday Premium
Night Duty Allowance
Unit Allowance
Nurse Coordinator Allowance
Specialist Coordinator Allowance
Community Allowance
Nurse assigned to Occupational Therapy(Qualified)
Nurse assigned to Occupational Therapy (Unqualified)

Also, what is the overtime rate ? And is it the same for public holidays?

Qualification Entitlement/Allowance €2,791 per annum
Dual Qualified Allowance €1,395 per annum
Sunday Allowance Never heard of this!
Sunday Premium Double time
Night Duty Allowance Time and a quarter
Unit Allowance If you mean location allowance, €1,858 per annum
Nurse Coordinator Allowance Never heard of this!
Specialist Coordinator Allowance Never heard of this!
Community Allowance €4,962 - €5,911 per annum
Nurse assigned to Occupational Therapy(Qualified) €3,732 per annum
Nurse assigned to Occupational Therapy (Unqualified) €1,702 per annum

Also, what is the overtime rate ? And is it the same for public holidays?Overtime is generally paid at time and a quarter, except when it is on night duty after midnight when it is double pay, Saturday after four hours at time and a quarter then double time.

Mocadonna

alloywheel wrote: »

Charming reply. 1641 made a very relevant post, it is up to some nursing reps to explain these if they want to present their case. It has already been established , with a source, that "the HSE has provided contrasting figures showing the average pay — including allowances and other extras for unsociable hours — comes to €57,000."

No no, ignore all that and pick on spelling or teach someone a "LESSON" to read stuff and research. And the same people whooping and hollering then when someone makes a completely false claim that a nurse with 20 years experience is on 30-35k. You literally couldn't make it up.

alloywheel

STB. wrote: »

You have no credibility. Still waiting for your source for the 100,000 nursing staff out of a staff compliment of 36,000 that YOU CLAIM take sick days every month there Einstein.

I have no credibility? lol. I provided numerous sources. And I quote posts. I was talking about the absenteeism in HSE, not just the nurses, as more than nurses work in the HSE. The absenteeism problem in the HSE is not just limited to nurses you know. And I quoted the source showing there was over 110,000 employed by the HSE in one way or another.
And you calling me Einstein and other names reminds me of a rude nurse who used to verbally abuse some of her patients. Charming.

STB.

So I googled the salary and allowances for nurses, given the reluctance of many to do the same.

They are published on the INMO's website.

https://www.inmo.ie/tempDocs/Salary%20scales%201%20January%202018.pdf

So 14,150 for a student nurse.

Post qualification - 24,604.

Then qualified staff nurses and midwives have a starting point of 28,768 rising to 43,000 after 11 years (they get a grand for each extra year they work).

alloywheel

Mocadonna wrote: »

No no, ignore all that and pick on spelling or teach someone a "LESSON" to read stuff and research. And the same people whooping and hollering then when someone makes a completely false claim that a nurse with 20 years experience is on 30-35k. You literally couldn't make it up.

What has that to do with the price of butter? If I said something incorrect then say so.

hawkelady

alloywheel wrote: »

What has that to do with the price of butter? If I said something incorrect then say so.

Lol , old re-reg must be getting hot under the collar. ! Leo’s working him too hard

Mocadonna

alloywheel wrote: »

What has that to do with the price of butter? If I said something incorrect then say so.

I'm on your side! I'm saying the people correcting spelling and like the guy telling you to read and research your responses are more than happy to go along with anecdotal claims that have no basis in fact.

hawkelady

Mocadonna wrote: »

I'm on your side! I'm saying the people correcting spelling and like the guy telling you to read and research your responses are more than happy to go along with anecdotal claims that have no basis in fact.

Lol, aawwww ... go on , hold hands ... I’m on your side !! Lololol

STB.

alloywheel wrote: »

I have no credibility? lol. I provided numerous sources. And I quote posts. I was talking about the absenteeism in HSE, not just the nurses, as more than nurses work in the HSE. The absenteeism problem in the HSE is not just limited to nurses you know. And I quoted the source showing there was over 110,000 employed by the HSE in one way or another.
And you calling me Einstein and other names reminds me of a rude nurse who used to verbally abuse some of her patients. Charming.

You provided no sources.

You claimed that 100,000 nurses where out sick every month. Even if you had used the entire figures employed directly by the HSE 65,000 (thats admin and medical staff) and the 35,000 funded in outside agencies, it would mean that 90% of the staff are out sick every month. WHERE IS YOUR SOURCE ?



John Duns Scotus would be proud of you..

1641

craggyjack wrote: »

Qualification Entitlement/Allowance €2,791 per annum
Dual Qualified Allowance €1,395 per annum
Sunday Allowance Never heard of this!
Sunday Premium Double time
Night Duty Allowance Time and a quarter
Unit Allowance If you mean location allowance, €1,858 per annum
Nurse Coordinator Allowance Never heard of this!
Specialist Coordinator Allowance Never heard of this!
Community Allowance €4,962 - €5,911 per annum
Nurse assigned to Occupational Therapy(Qualified) €3,732 per annum
Nurse assigned to Occupational Therapy (Unqualified) €1,702 per annum

Also, what is the overtime rate ? And is it the same for public holidays?Overtime is generally paid at time and a quarter, except when it is on night duty after midnight when it is double pay, Saturday after four hours at time and a quarter then double time.

Thanks craggyjack.
You have furthered my education! Hawkelady will be pleased.

alloywheel

STB. wrote: »

You provided no sources.

You claimed that 100,000 nurses where out sick every month.

LIE. Show me where I said those words. I did not use the word nurses. I was talking about the HSE. I know the post number. Let you find it.
And I did not say "every month". Watch your words and do not accuse me of something I did not say.

n.b Even if you just google "100,000 absenteeism in the HSE", the Examiner says "A STARTLING 100,000 working days were lost in one month in the HSE due to absenteeism." That was in 2009, before numbers rose to the levels they are at today.

Now answer the questions put to you.

Mocadonna

hawkelady wrote: »

Lol, aawwww ... go on , hold hands ... I’m on your side !! Lololol

You have just proved my point. Calling out others for spelling while acting like a baby.

By the way STB that's the 2018 salary scale you condescendingly posted, not 2019. So again... People in glass houses.

AllForIt

It will be something like a percentage of what they are asking for with promises of incremental increases over the next 5 years or so. They usually end up something like that. Saving face on both sides.

Martina1991

STB. wrote:

Then qualified staff nurses and midwives have a starting point of 28,768 rising to 43,000 after 11 years (they get a grand for each extra year they work).

We know this. The salary scale has been posted a few times in this thread.

I would agree the scale is poor compared to other health care professions but there are also many allowences available to nurses that the others do not have. As well as post grad qualifications being paid for.

I know "not all nurses" get these allowances but they cant just be disregarded either, especially when they are not available to the other professions.

hawkelady

I agree. It’ll be trashed out over the weekend before the 3 days in a row , I reckon. 6 or 7% upfront and the rest over the coming 3-5 years.

Martina1991

It would be unfair to have nurses salaries brought in line with other health care workers and still get all the allowances, paid qualifications, overtime, and working nights to accumulate more time off.