Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Paddy Samurai

hawkelady wrote: »

Well that’s BS because I only recently witnessed two nurses clean up blood from an elderly lady who bled all over the bed , it was horrific to witness but there you have it !! Nurses do clean up.

Most of the patient clean up in hospitals is done by HCA's

noodler

ILikeBananas wrote: »

The Irish Times Politics podcast discussed this during the week. They thought that it might be a hard sell to the public based on that fact that, including allowances:

• The average pay was €58k
• 80% of nurses are paid > €40k
• Graduates start on €36k

I suspect that the union will tend to steer the conversation away from the above figures since the general public might lose support for the nurses if they discovered that they were being paid more than themselves.

These types of fact aren't really discussed too often in the public domain.

Fully respect nurses etc but they are an absolute sacred cow when it comes to any criticism whatsoever.

There have been a number of pay rises in recent years and they are reasonably well paid with further pay rises affecting all public servants kicking in this year.

Pay deals in the public sector almost never affect just one group.

The country cannot afford the fairly unprecedented % increase sought for such a large % of its workforce and certainly not the counter claims that will follow from other parts of the PS.

mariaalice

noodler wrote: »

These types of fact aren't really discussed too often in the public domain.

Fully respect nurses etc but they are an absolute sacred cow when it comes to any criticism whatsoever.

There have been a number of pay rises in recent years and they are reasonably well paid with further pay rises affecting all public servants kicking in this year.

Pay deals in the public sector almost never affect just one group.

The country cannot afford the fairly unprecedented % increase sought for such a large % of its workforce and certainly not the counter claims that will follow from other parts of the PS.

That is the big issue the counter claims from other public servants.

Varta

Tell me how wrote: »

If this is the case, why aren't nurses striking for structural change.

Every time I'm in a hospital I see nurses doing jobs I think I would find very hard to do. Mentally and physically it must be very difficult. But, if they are on an average of 57K with 3k more due on agreed rises as part of the current deal before the end of 2020, I find it hard to argue for a pay rise now.

The average indicates the money is in the system. It just shows the structure is messed up.

Can you please outline exactly where this €57,000 average comes from. I ask because the FACT is that most nurses are staff nurses and the maximum wage for a staff nurse is €45,500. Some staff nurses will have an additional qualification extra allowance of €2,000pa, but not all. Average pay across an entire sector is not actually relevant. Address the staff nurse level of pay and I believe nurses would be happy to call of the proposed strike.

Varta

Dia1988 wrote: »

Only you said long tea breaks and 40 minutes, I never mentioned that. You're making up stuff to defend nurses.

A g good majority a moany whiney lazy that sit chatting for the vast period of their shift. I've seen this myself.

Why are you being allowed to get away with comments like this. Is there no moderation?

Varta

Graces7 wrote: »

Ok; that was not my reading of it, but that is how I and others feel re the strikes by nurses. No respect for them.

Would you prefer to go back to the days when the nuns ran the hospital and the nurses did what the nuns told them to do and sang in choirs on holy days and on days of ministerial visits, because that's how it was before nurses began to speak up for themselves.

Tell me how

Varta wrote: »

Would you prefer to go back to the days when the nuns ran the hospital and the nurses did what the nuns told them to do and sang in choirs on holy days and on days of ministerial visits, because that's how it was before nurses began to speak up for themselves.

Don't ask a question if you are not ready for the answer...

Varta

mariaalice wrote: »

That is the big issue the counter claims from other public servants.

The nurses pay claim is a legacy issue. It should not involve any other member of the public sector.

Varta

Tell me how wrote: »

Don't ask a question if you are not ready for the answer...

I know well how some people would answer.

Tell me how

Varta wrote: »

The nurses pay claim is a legacy issue. It should not involve any other member of the public sector.

Each group within the public sector would say the same thing but we cannot afford to treat them differently.

There would constantly be separate negotiations ongoing.

Varta

spodoinkle wrote: »

lol b*llocks

my wife is a qualified nurse and now midwife for 14 years in total and nowhere near that

They will keep throwing an 'average' figure at you. And by doing that they are implicitly defending the higher pay scales in the HSE.

road_high

Varta wrote: »

The nurses pay claim is a legacy issue. It should not involve any other member of the public sector.

It will though. The dam will be opened and it’s 2002 all over.

Varta

Tell me how wrote: »

Can you respond to this query which I asked you please.

And who is this average nurse?

Pissartist

Of course they will, do they deserve it ? that's another question.

Varta

road_high wrote: »

It will though. The dam will be opened and it’s 2002 all over.

I think you need to take that up with those public servants at that time, to be fair.

Paulzx

I apply a general rule when considering salary figures that have been released during a dispute in order to get an accurate figure for what the employee actually gets paid.

Take the figure the employer has released.
Take the figure the union has released.

Whatever is in the middle of the two is probably the closest to the actual salary.

Varta

noodler wrote: »

These types of fact aren't really discussed too often in the public domain.

Fully respect nurses etc but they are an absolute sacred cow when it comes to any criticism whatsoever.

There have been a number of pay rises in recent years and they are reasonably well paid with further pay rises affecting all public servants kicking in this year.

Pay deals in the public sector almost never affect just one group.

The country cannot afford the fairly unprecedented % increase sought for such a large % of its workforce and certainly not the counter claims that will follow from other parts of the PS.

The middle of those three lines is the one that matters.

Tell me how

Varta wrote: »

And who is this average nurse?

You know as well as I do what average means.

realitykeeper

No they don`t deserve a pay rise, they deserve a massive pay cut and half of them should be sacked. It would be a good idea to cut their pay first before sacking them to reduce the redundancy costs. Speaking of redundancy payments, what a rediculous notion! They got their weekly wages when they were working, whats with this lump sum giveaways of taxpayers money for nothing? One has to laugh at this suggestion the nurses are leaving the HSE. The HSE is too imcompetent to recruit and they don`t know how to run a health service, simple as that. Besides, in order to cut spending, we want the nurses to leave and if they go of their own volition, Great! No redundancy for them.

Varta

Tell me how wrote: »

You know as well as I do what average means.

But it doesn't actually give us much information, does it. Over 80% of nurses earn less than 47,000.

Dia1988

Varta

Paulzx wrote: »

I apply a general rule when considering salary figures that have been released during a dispute in order to get an accurate figure for what the employee actually gets paid.

Take the figure the employer has released.
Take the figure the union has released.

Whatever is in the middle of the two is probably the closest to the actual salary.

Do you apply this to everything in life?

Varta

Tell me how wrote: »

Each group within the public sector would say the same thing but we cannot afford to treat them differently.

There would constantly be separate negotiations ongoing.

They might well say the same thing, but it would not be true for them, therefore it could be resisted.

As a self-employed person I am generally not in favour of increasing public service pay, but I can recognise when a legacy pay issue is creating a problem within a vital public service.

Tell me how

Varta wrote: »

But it doesn't actually give us much information, does it. Over 80% of nurses earn less than 47,000.

If they do, and the average is what it is then the problem is the rates for the other 20%. I understand that they are doing some form of management but to put the average up that high seems way out of kilter.

This disparity (if it is the case) should not be fixed by paying everyone 12% more.

circadian

realitykeeper wrote: »

No they don`t deserve a pay rise, they deserve a massive pay cut and half of them should be sacked. It would be a good idea to cut their pay first before sacking them to reduce the redundancy costs. Speaking of redundancy payments, what a rediculous notion! They got their weekly wages when they were working, whats with this lump sum giveaways of taxpayers money for nothing? One has to laugh at this suggestion the nurses are leaving the HSE. The HSE is too imcompetent to recruit and they don`t know how to run a health service, simple as that. Besides, in order to cut spending, we want the nurses to leave and if they go of their own volition, Great! No redundancy for them.

Right so.

Varta

Tell me how wrote: »

If they do, and the average is what it is then the problem is the rates for the other 20%. I understand that they are doing some form of management but to put the average up that high seems way out of kilter.

This disparity (if it is the case) should not be fixed by paying everyone 12% more.

Now we are in agreement. I don't believe there should be an increase across the board, but I do support an increase in the basic staff nurse rate.

Lone Stone

before my mother spent a stint in hospital over several months, i would have said yes but after i would say no. All i seen were nurses sitting around chatting paying zero attention to patients on the ward, had to go looking for them and non to be seen while people had fit's falls one guy was choking some were amazing nurses but the majority i found complete and utter dossers avoided doing any thing at all, one was so sadistic she got fired. The carers on the ward did more work than the nurses and that's a fact.

Dia1988

Here's a good description.
In reality nurses are on Facebook.

Tell me how

Varta wrote: »

Now we are in agreement. I don't believe there should be an increase across the board, but I do support an increase in the basic staff nurse rate.

But the nurses union are not advocating for that and I don't believe it will work that way either.

Dia1988

Dia1988 wrote: »

Here's a good description.
In reality nurses are on Facebook.

Agree