French author, 50, says he's incapable of loving a woman of 50

Sonic Youth

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I dont think some men understand that sex and attention from women isn't a human right. And that women don't exist solely for them. It's not surprising that women don't find bitterness and barely concealed rage an attractive quality. Where did this sense of entitlement come from?

It's not a sense of entitlement, it's a sense of frustration some men get because no matter what the do they seem to be invisible to women. I would say to those men they need to seriously work on themselves and start approaching women. Then though, you get accused of 'promoting pua' or some crap.

Gimme A Pound

Sonic Youth wrote: »

No common at all.

Until early 20s it is certainly common.

But if you mean specifically mid 20s onwards, yeah that's more unusual. I wouldn't say it's as rare as what you'd be led to believe though (much of our information comes from the media).

There are good-looking guys who are players until their 30s though - avoid commitment as long as possible. It's really a case by case thing.

Sonic Youth

Clementine Echoing Squalor wrote: »

Until early 20s it is certainly common.

But if you mean specifically mid 20s onwards, yeah that's more unusual. I wouldn't say it's as rare as what you'd be led to believe though (much of our information comes from the media).

There are good-looking guys who are players until their 30s though - avoid commitment as long as possible. It's really a case by case thing.

I know guys in their 40s who get with girls in their 20s. I suspect they are sociopaths such is the level of charm they display.

I have disagree with you though. From what I've seen it's rare for someone to get to 20 without a relationship or any kind of experience with the opposite sex.

Sonic Youth

Sonic Youth wrote: »

It's not a sense of entitlement, it's a sense of frustration some men get because no matter what the do they seem to be invisible to women. I would say to those men they need to seriously work on themselves and start approaching women. Then though, you get accused of 'promoting pua' or some crap.

The PUA stuff, imo, is only useful because it gives people a framework they can cling to when they are chatting to the opposite sex. It gives people a plan when they lack one and feel they need one. If it is successful, it's not because the lines work, it's because they give people the confidence to talk. Once you have talked to a stranger for 2 or 3 minutes, you can tell if you're going to be able to talk them indefinitely or if ye have nothing in common.

It is a chronic (and mystifying) shame that we seem to raise both sexes in Ireland to be so wary of each other that such nonsense is needed by anyone. Whatever else our schools do, they do not instil confidence and self worth into people.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

It is a chronic (and mystifying) shame that we seem to raise both sexes in Ireland to be so wary of each other that such nonsense is needed by anyone. Whatever else our schools do, they do not instil confidence and self worth into people.

Not sure you can blame the schools for any discomfort. A lot of it is natural shyness which exists in most cultures but we think we are unique in this respect.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Not sure you can blame the schools for any discomfort. A lot of it is natural shyness which exists in most cultures but we think we are unique in this respect.

I dunno, shyness is one thing, half this nation seems to suffer from a severe lack of confidence, it would be more, but Cork arrogance skews the figures a bit.

ExoPolitic

Not sure why this has created such a commotion. Not like this actually affects anybody. Man is entitled to like what he likes and speak what he thinks... doesn't mean anybody has to agree with him. The only people who this affects is anybody who is female, over 50 and has a romantic interest in this man - seems like a very narrow criteria there to be of any worry.

The facts there don't care about the feelings... Just todays storm in a tea cup.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

I dunno, shyness is one thing, half this nation seems to suffer from a severe lack of confidence, it would be more, but Cork arrogance skews the figures a bit.

It's funny because internationally, I get the impression that people think we are very confident and outgoing.

I do think maybe tourists see us being friendly and equate that with confidence in every walk of life maybe more than is the case but I don't think we are a nation of shrinking violets either.

sk8erboii

Tell me how wrote: »

It's funny because internationally, I get the impression that people think we are very confident and outgoing.

I do think maybe tourists see us being friendly and equate that with confidence in every walk of life maybe more than is the case but I don't think we are a nation of shrinking violets either.

Whoa. Almost as if the irish that emigrated and made first contact are the outgoing ones or something..

MaryBrosnan

I would soften it for him fairly sharpish.

Sam Quentin

Tell me how wrote: »

It's funny because internationally, I get the impression that people think we are very confident and outgoing.

I do think maybe tourists see us being friendly and equate that with confidence in every walk of life maybe more than is the case but I don't think we are a nation of shrinking violets either.

Being half drunk can easily be viewed internationally as being very confident and outgoing!?!? That impression of the Irish abroad soon wears thin......

Lotus Flower

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The PUA stuff, imo, is only useful because it gives people a framework they can cling to when they are chatting to the opposite sex. It gives people a plan when they lack one and feel they need one. If it is successful, it's not because the lines work, it's because they give people the confidence to talk. Once you have talked to a stranger for 2 or 3 minutes, you can tell if you're going to be able to talk them indefinitely or if ye have nothing in common.

It is a chronic (and mystifying) shame that we seem to raise both sexes in Ireland to be so wary of each other that such nonsense is needed by anyone. Whatever else our schools do, they do not instil confidence and self worth into people.

The Incels and MGTOW movements come from North America

Lotus Flower

Tell me how wrote: »

It's funny because internationally, I get the impression that people think we are very confident and outgoing.

I do think maybe tourists see us being friendly and equate that with confidence in every walk of life maybe more than is the case but I don't think we are a nation of shrinking violets either.

You can be confident and outgoing and still have self doubt- these are human traits, not unique to Irish.

Wibbs

Lotus Flower wrote: »

The Incels and MGTOW movements come from North America

Exactly and the whole PUA thing is international. It's feck all to do with being Irish or Irish culture. It was exported from the US in the noughties, along with the whole gender politics polarisation ballsology. And even then it's a minority thing in the US.

ArchXStanton

Sonic Youth wrote: »

It's not a sense of entitlement, it's a sense of frustration some men get because no matter what the do they seem to be invisible to women. I would say to those men they need to seriously work on themselves and start approaching women. Then though, you get accused of 'promoting pua' or some crap.

Or women could pick up some of the grunt work and do some approaching or asking out that expectation in this age of equality still falls on men, it's a debate I've had many times with female friends, they use every excuse going "that's the man's job" "we don't to be seen as easy" etc. What they don't want to admit is their egos wouldn't take the knock of a rejection

Lotus Flower

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Or women could pick up some of the grunt work and do some approaching or asking out that expectation in this age of equality still falls on men, it's a debate I've had many times with female friends, they use every excuse going "that's the man's job" "we don't to be seen as easy" etc. What they don't want to admit is their egos wouldn't take the knock of a rejection

I don't have any issue making a move on a guy but what women have been told for years is "let him do the work", "men love a challenge", "play hard to get", so often women end up just as confused as men. Why not just accept that neither gender are perfect, all of us figure out this stuff as we go along and sometimes get it right, other times not.

ArchXStanton

Lotus Flower wrote: »

I don't have any issue making a move on a guy but what women have been told for years is "let him do the work", "men love a challenge", "play hard to get", so often women end up just as confused as men. Why not just accept that neither gender are perfect, all of us figure out this stuff as we go along and sometimes get it right, other times not.

It's a power thing, even on a lot of tinder profiles you'll see if we match you message first.... So they can still reject/unmatch/ghost you, I don't think women fully appreciate how nerve wrecking asking them out can be for some men and it opens you up to a lot of messes too, the ones that will string you along for validation, ego boosts etc

Lotus Flower

ArchXStanton wrote: »

It's a power thing, even on a lot of tinder profiles you'll see if we match you message first.... So they can still reject/unmatch/ghost you, I don't think women fully appreciate how nerve wrecking asking them out can be for some men and it opens you up to a lot of messes too, the ones that will string you along for validation, ego boosts etc

And you think women have never been ghosted by guys? I'm just saying that both women and men can have a hard time of it in the dating world. Messers and time-wasters exist in both genders.

ArchXStanton

Lotus Flower wrote: »

And you think women have never been ghosted by guys? I'm just saying that both women and men can have a hard time of it in the dating world. Messers and time-wasters exist in both genders.

Indeed, but for men a lot of the time you're putting your hand out to be slapped, the red bill/mgtow gets a bad rep around here but ultimately I can only seeing it being a good thing for freeing men from outdated gender roles

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Clementine Echoing Squalor wrote: »

In general, sex is more of an urgent physical need to men than it is to women. Women are generally hopeful that more will evolve from sex, so it really really isn't that wonderful to women to be seen just as someone who'll do for a shag by a guy who has tried to get other women on a given night but no joy and she's the last resort and he doesn't give a hoot about her (I know she goes ahead with it too, but that's because SHE isn't able to find intimacy either). And in those cases, the men who have trouble finding a woman... well they DO find a woman. Just not who they'd like. But if the point is that it's easier for unattractive women to get casual sex, well who are they having casual sex with? It ain't the adonises.

I also think it's a myth that an attractive women can have amazing sex in the arms of an Adonis anytime she wants it. I know plenty of young attractive women who say they despair of finding anyone decent to date. One night stands are relatively easy to come by -- but as you note, that's not what many women are really looking for.

At Trinity College, over 60 percent of students are now women. That means that on a student night out there would be on average three women for every two men -- not great odds for the women. And this carries through to society in general, where there are significantly more educated professional women under 30 than there are men -- meaning that many young women will struggle to find partners who are their equals in terms of education and career.

Having no-strings-attached sex and having relationships are two different things, and most of us ultimately want the latter.

Outlaw Pete

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I'll have Monica Bellucci.

I don't think that she's 50 in that pic?

She was divorced by another Frenchie Vincent Cassel a few years ago - he's now married to a 21 year old.

ginandtonicsky

Lotus Flower wrote: »

I don't have any issue making a move on a guy but what women have been told for years is "let him do the work", "men love a challenge", "play hard to get", so often women end up just as confused as men. Why not just accept that neither gender are perfect, all of us figure out this stuff as we go along and sometimes get it right, other times not.

Yep. And men are influenced by this as well. I've been forward with men over the years only to be strung along and ultimately left hurt or disappointed because the fella just went along for the ride, so to speak, because it was "there on a plate". There's a funny dynamic in dating that isn't the most PC thing to talk about, but where an interested / forward woman can be off-putting for men who fundamentally believe, subsconsciously or otherwise, that THEY have to chase her for her to be a worthwhile partner. Hunter gatherer stuff that goes back to earlier times.

Darwin Rotten Drunk wrote: »

I also think it's a myth that an attractive women can have amazing sex in the arms of an Adonis anytime she wants it. I know plenty of young attractive women who say they despair of finding anyone decent to date. One night stands are relatively easy to come by -- but as you note, that's not what many women are really looking for.

Yeah, the "but ye can have sex whenever ye want!" argument holds no weight in me. Some women want that but most want intimacy, an emotional connection, not to be left high and dry by a guy that literally just wanted his hole for the night and skips out the door the next day. The amount of damaged women I know who have poor self-esteem, body image issues, low confidence because of years of these scenarios that breed false intimacy and leave you feeling empty and lonelier once they're over.

I'd rather not have sex for the next ten years than have a spate of casual flings or one night stands devoid of the love, friendship, and intimacy that I'm really looking for.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

I'd rather not have sex for the next ten years than have a spate of casual flings or one night stands devoid of the love, friendship, and intimacy that I'm really looking for.

I think the same ultimately holds true for men. Once the novelty of shagging lots of girls wears off, most men want to settle down into more substantial relationships. Even famous rock stars, who could theoretically bed a different groupie every night for the rest of their lives, tend to wind up in LTRs or marriages.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Sonic Youth wrote: »

I know guys in their 40s who get with girls in their 20s. I suspect they are sociopaths such is the level of charm they display.

I have disagree with you though. From what I've seen it's rare for someone to get to 20 without a relationship or any kind of experience with the opposite sex.

From my own observances, more people reach their 20s without having a relationship than do. A good few more actually.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

From my own observances, more people reach their 20s without having a relationship than do. A good few more actually.

The Irish Times sex survey found that the average Irish woman loses her virginity at 18.7 years old and the average Irish man at 19.2 years old. Statistically, more than half of 20-year-olds will have had sex -- although having a relationship is a different matter. Some may have been in relationships without having sex, and others may have had sex without being in relationships.

Lotus Flower

Darwin Rotten Drunk wrote: »

I think the same ultimately holds true for men. Once the novelty of shagging lots of girls wears off, most men want to settle down into more substantial relationships. Even famous rock stars, who could theoretically bed a different groupie every night for the rest of their lives, tend to wind up in LTRs or marriages.

Exactly. When you think about it, to suggest that men only care about women being young and sexy (usually the type of guff spouted by guys who blame "angry feminists" for everything), that's insulting to men. Many men are looking for a partnership too

Lotus Flower

Lotus Flower wrote: »

Exactly. When you think about it, to suggest that men only care about women being young and sexy (usually the type of guff spouted by guys who blame "angry feminists" for everything), that's insulting to men. Many men are looking for a partnership too

Of course most men are looking for relationships.
But you can't tie that to men only caring about having young and sexy women as being mutually exclusive.
If most men had the choice they'd prefer to be in a relationship with a young and sexy woman.

Lotus Flower

glasso wrote: »

Of course most men are looking for relationships.
But you can't tie that to men only caring about having young and sexy women as being mutually exclusive.
If most men had the choice they'd prefer to be in a relationship with a young and sexy woman.

Not denying the importance of attraction (it's important for women too, FYI) but some of the responses on this thread imply that it's the only thing that matters and that men ONLY like younger women. Nonsense. It's possible for a happily married man to still fancy his wife, despite them being together for years and her no longer being 25. I know this as I know many couples like that

Lotus Flower

Lotus Flower wrote: »

Not denying the importance of attraction (it's important for women too, FYI) but some of the responses on this thread imply that it's the only thing that matters and that men ONLY like younger women. Nonsense. It's possible for a happily married man to still fancy his wife, despite them being together for years and her no longer being 25. I know this as I know many couples like that

Yes I agree with you. Notwithstanding that, where men have resources, social status and access to younger women (social circles) it's no coincidence that you see them having multiple marriages, marrying a younger woman each time.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Darwin Rotten Drunk wrote: »

The Irish Times sex survey found that the average Irish woman loses her virginity at 18.7 years old and the average Irish man at 19.2 years old. Statistically, more than half of 20-year-olds will have had sex -- although having a relationship is a different matter. Some may have been in relationships without having sex, and others may have had sex without being in relationships.

I don’t really know why you brought statistics about sex - I clearly was just talking about relationships.