Reloading ammunition?

brugmand

Hi guys, looking at importing a rifle from the UK that comes with the necessary reloading tools, brass and slugs. Is it legal to reload here in ireland? I wasn't originally planning to reload but if it Is legal I would like to learn about it and use it.

Thanks

tac foley

Grizzly wrote this a couple of year ago. Every point made in it is probably still valid -

You actually CAN reload in Ireland outside the Midlands programme too.
But it's an "Irish solution to an Irish problem "situation.
IOW there is legislation in place to allow the "manufacturing of ammunition" under one of the acts in 2000. BUT it is set up for Industrial manufacturing on a commercial scale!! Perfect sense for setting up an ammo making plant, but total overkill for someone who wants to reload 20 deer rounds a season.And the Govts past and present are not going to change it for us either.

I tried to take it as far as I could go as a civilian to see how far you could go with it, as I had an isolated premises, which is a prerequisite for setting up this kind of operation according to the act.But when you get to, first off requirement a 4,000 euro fire alarm system.....4k is a lot of manufactured ammo....

And lets not even get started on getting powder and primers legally into the ROI...

Cass

Short answer , no, you cannot reload.

Long answer, you need authorisation, licenses, security, bumkers (i mean that literally), fire service inspection, etc, etc. And that is just for to apply for it. Plus they are not issuing individual licenses, or more accurately, none that i've heard of.

civdef

The fire safety guidance document doesn't seem to be online - I have a copy of work but not to hand at home till next week - from memory there's nothing too crazy in it - 60 minutes fire resistance rated construction (block wall or double slabbing), 60 minute fire door, the fire alarm coverage should be appropriate to the premises.

That part shouldn't pose too much of a hurdle?

Grizzly 45

Its the price of the alarm Civ...I was told this in person by the asst fire chief from Ennis when he came out to look and advise on my premises. Now about five years ago. So if anything it has gone up.it must be a commercial standard monitored alarm..And we haven't even got to the preconditions for workspaces, ventilation, emergency exits in the building, fire fighting equipment,etc.:(

Grizzly 45

To answer the OP's post. You can own all of the above reloading equipment, bar maybe the empty shells, no problem. As it is just so much scrap metal in reality here, without the powder, bullets, and primers as raw material to make a round of ammo.

solarwinds

A monitored alarm with at most a few detectors and even if wired in pyro cable wouldn't be that expensive.

Grizzly 45

I know, but I'm only going by what the guy who was going to sign off on this wanted before he would be happy to do so.

solarwinds

Did he give any specs as to what he was looking for or was it the usual, go figure it out for yourself and ill just keep telling you its not right.
Is one room sufficient or do they require seperate storage and assembly areas ?

Zxthinger

""manufacturing of ammunition" under one of the acts in 2000"

Never found that one.

Grizzly 45

Certified to some ISDN/EU standard? Being capable of X number of specs functions and whatnot. Can't remember, and dumped the paperwork for this project, and this was him telling me, nothing in writing.
Yup, separate storage and assembly room, with an almost clean room ventilation system as well. All electrical systems had to be explosion/spark proof fixtures& fittings as well.

Grizzly 45

Zxthinger wrote: »

""manufacturing of ammunition" under one of the acts in 2000"

Never found that one.

I can never remember the correct title to this:o, but it is definitely there and it is in the 2000 era legislative time. It might be an EU directive too. But it most certainly exists.

Zxthinger

What did it discuss?
Building? Premises?
Components?
Safety courses?

This and council order number 12 are the two nuts that I can't find.

Grizzly 45

Here's a download on everything explosive in Irish law.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/GD_2010-6_Public__Guidance_Notes_-_Explosives_Legislation010916.pdf/Files/GD_2010-6_Public__Guidance_Notes_-_Explosives_Legislation010916.pdf

What this legislation had, from the top of my head..

Conditions on the location of the premises.How far it must be away from public roads, canals, footpaths, other buildings etc

What the building must be constructed from, and how many doors and windows,if any it may have.As well as emergency exits

The electrical fixtures and fittings and lights[spark and explosion proof]
The ventilation systems, and workspace hygiene,as well as personal hygiene and work clothing when working on the ammo line.

The fire alarm system obviously, and firefighting equipment to hand.

The storage of conditions of primary components IE powder, primers etc, Wooden shelves and non-sparking or static electricity conductive materials.
Storage of the finished product in pretty much the same conditions, but separately.

Distances between primary components based on weight and class of materials.

AFAICR, storage of finished product, labelling to UN std.

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

To answer the OP's post. You can own all of the above reloading equipment, bar maybe the empty shells, no problem. .

You can have all the reloading equipment (tools), empty brass and bullets.

The primers and propellant are what you need the authorisation/licenses for.

brugmand

Thanks guys, it looks like I won't be reloading anytime soon 😂

Zxthinger

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Here's a download on everything explosive in Irish law.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/GD_2010-6_Public__Guidance_Notes_-_Explosives_Legislation010916.pdf/Files/GD_2010-6_Public__Guidance_Notes_-_Explosives_Legislation010916.pdf

What this legislation had, from the top of my head..

Conditions on the location of the premises.How far it must be away from public roads, canals, footpaths, other buildings etc

What the building must be constructed from, and how many doors and windows,if any it may have.As well as emergency exits

The electrical fixtures and fittings and lights[spark and explosion proof]
The ventilation systems, and workspace hygiene,as well as personal hygiene and work clothing when working on the ammo line.

The fire alarm system obviously, and firefighting equipment to hand.

The storage of conditions of primary components IE powder, primers etc, Wooden shelves and non-sparking or static electricity conductive materials.
Storage of the finished product in pretty much the same conditions, but separately.

Distances between primary components based on weight and class of materials.

AFAICR, storage of finished product, labelling to UN std.[/QUOTE

Was this the county council who were vetting you property?.

civdef

Is reloading being treated as manufacture of explosives requiring a Magazine / Factory licence (like http://www.iie-online.com/ ) , or as storage of the components- which for the typical quantities involved for individual means a Mode B Registered Premises (Essentially a big safe - same as a lot of ammo dealers would have).

Section 41 would seem to be clear that reloading isn't manufacturing explosives.

Cass

I don't know is the short answer as it's not been updated or defined.

It would seem to depend on the quantity and end user aspect. If its one person, for themselves, with a quantity below say 15kg then it's persona use and fine under regular authorisation.

If it's a someone bringing in 100's of kg, producing tens of thousands of rounds, and then selling the finished product, then it's easy to call it manufacturing.

Just my own thoughts.

civdef

Applying for a Mode B Registered Premises store from the local authority is very straightforward.

This is the form: http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Form%20RP1%20(Registered%20Premises%20-%20other%20than%20Category%201%20fireworks)%2020%20Oct%202015.pdf/Files/Form%20RP1%20(Registered%20Premises%20-%20other%20than%20Category%201%20fireworks)%2020%20Oct%202015.pdf



What have people being applying for?

Cass

Don't know myself as i never applied individually. I'll let someone that has, answer.

solarwinds

Is it just me or does it not seem strange that I can have a complete round in my possession as allowed by my licence but yet if I break it down to component parts each on their own no good without the other I am breaking the law.

tac foley

solarwinds wrote: »

Is it just me or does it not seem strange that I can have a complete round in my possession as allowed by my licence but yet if I break it down to component parts each on their own no good without the other I am breaking the law.

Yup. Makes as much sense as celery ice-cream.

civdef

Is it just me or does it not seem strange that I can have a complete round in my possession as allowed by my licence but yet if I break it down to component parts each on their own no good without the other I am breaking the law.

Does it though? Ammunition is defined in the act as including components, so if you have a licence that allows you to have ammunition.....

pm.

civdef wrote: »

Does it though? Ammunition is defined in the act as including components, so if you have a licence that allows you to have ammunition.....

Would be a great loop hole

Grizzly 45

civdef wrote: »

Applying for a Mode B Registered Premises store from the local authority is very straightforward.

This is the form: http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Form%20RP1%20(Registered%20Premises%20-%20other%20than%20Category%201%20fireworks)%2020%20Oct%202015.pdf/Files/Form%20RP1%20(Registered%20Premises%20-%20other%20than%20Category%201%20fireworks)%2020%20Oct%202015.pdf



What have people been applying for?

That's exactly what I applied for and filled out initially and sent off. And about 14 days later I got Ennis ast fire chief on the phone asking me 30 questions about this and wanting to come out to view the proposed "ammunition making facility.Despite me telling him,it wasnt making ammo on a commercial basis and that fireworks or other explosives werent ever going to be involved.
"

Grizzly 45

Was this the county council who were vetting you property?.

Nope asst fire cheif of Ennisfire brigade,proably working on behalf of CCC to see what the situation was?

civdef

The fire officer is a local authority employee - assigned this role under the Explosives Act 1875.

The key thing I keep coming back to in my head is this same piece of legislation allowed for reloading in 3 other countries for more than a century!

Zxthinger

civdef wrote: »

The fire officer is a local authority employee - assigned this role under the Explosives Act 1875.

The key thing I keep coming back to in my head is this same piece of legislation allowed for reloading in 3 other countries for more than a century!

When things calm down after xmas I'll have to go over the whole process but from my initial reading of the 1875 explosive act, it seems to me that the local authority has no reason to vet a person for having a limited quantity of powder and propellants if it's for private use.

The act explicitly details an exemption from the storage regulations for private use of explosives which are being held for legal personal or sporting usage. The 1875 act stipulates IIRC that this amount of explosive is limited to 30lb

Some time after this common sense 1875 rule is the insertion of council order no12 in which private storage is reduced to 10lbs of powder/explosives/primers etc etc

Two bits that have me chasing my tail are. :
#1.... Under what part of the legislation was the co council fire inspected obliged to carry out said inspection and
#2.... where does this council order no12 ( limiting possession to 10lb) reign from.


It seems to me that it is all allowable yet the local authority has vetted private individuals under the portions of the act which is designed for commercial groups. This is a major error.

Don't forget that the same 1875 explosives act governs the U.K, yes I know it is with some minor changes but please remember that we don't see uk reloaders being vetted for fire rated ceilings and doors with alarms and sprinklers with anti static certification.
Ffs..we are being deceived.

solarwinds

Zxthinger wrote: »

civdef wrote: »

The fire officer is a local authority employee - assigned this role under the Explosives Act 1875.

The key thing I keep coming back to in my head is this same piece of legislation allowed for reloading in 3 other countries for more than a century!

When things calm down after xmas I'll have to go over the whole process but from my initial reading of tgec,1875 exp act it seems to me that the local authority has no reason to vet a limited quantity of powder and propellants if it's for private use.

The act details explicitly an exemption from the storage regulations for private explosives which are being held for legal personal or sporting usage. The 1875 act stipulates IIRC that this amount of explosive is limited to 30lb

Somewhere after this common sense rule is the insertion of council order no12 in which private storage is deducted to 10lbs of powder/explosives/primers etc etc

Two bits that have me chasing my tail are. :
#1.... Under what part of the legislation was the co council fire inspected obliged to carry out said inspection and
#2.... where do this council order no12 ( limiting possession to 10lb) reign from.


It seems to me that it is all allowable that the local authority has vetted private individuals under the portion of the act which is designed for commercial groups.

Don't forget that the same 1875 explosives act governs the U.K yes I know it is with some minor changes but please remember that we don't see uk reloaders being vetted for fire rated ceilings and doors with alarms and sprinklers with anti static certification.
Ffs..we are being deceived.

I dont know a lot about those things but I imagine they would have made changes to take into account the troubles.

solarwinds

Zxthinger wrote: »

civdef wrote: »

The fire officer is a local authority employee - assigned this role under the Explosives Act 1875.

The key thing I keep coming back to in my head is this same piece of legislation allowed for reloading in 3 other countries for more than a century!

When things calm down after xmas I'll have to go over the whole process but from my initial reading of tgec,1875 exp act it seems to me that the local authority has no reason to vet a limited quantity of powder and propellants if it's for private use.

The act details explicitly an exemption from the storage regulations for private explosives which are being held for legal personal or sporting usage. The 1875 act stipulates IIRC that this amount of explosive is limited to 30lb

Somewhere after this common sense rule is the insertion of council order no12 in which private storage is deducted to 10lbs of powder/explosives/primers etc etc

Two bits that have me chasing my tail are. :
#1.... Under what part of the legislation was the co council fire inspected obliged to carry out said inspection and
#2.... where do this council order no12 ( limiting possession to 10lb) reign from.


It seems to me that it is all allowable that the local authority has vetted private individuals under the portion of the act which is designed for commercial groups.

Don't forget that the same 1875 explosives act governs the U.K yes I know it is with some minor changes but please remember that we don't see uk reloaders being vetted for fire rated ceilings and doors with alarms and sprinklers with anti static certification.
Ffs..we are being deceived.

I dont know a lot about those things but I imagine they would have made changes to take into account the troubles in the North.