AEW - All Elite Wrestling (*Spoilers for Latest Show*)

CastorTroy

CastorTroy wrote: »

Tazz even got the dig at WWE in there.
We expecting Cage to win the title?
I've said before, that's why new guys shouldn't be going for the title right away, because they either have to pull the trigger and give him the title or else kill any momentum.

No way Cage wins the title imo.

Cage is a weird one. I watched him a good bit in Impact. You're expecting a Scott Steiner type (with how ripped he is) with loads of suplexes, stiff offense etc but then the guy is doing 619s and stuff like that. He should cut out the cruiserweight stuff imo.

Same with Luchasaurus, the leg slapping spin kicks and super kicks look terrible. Work like a monster.

Would have loved to have seen AEW get Killer Kross and Scarlett who I was big fans of in Impact.

B.A._Baracus

CastorTroy wrote: »

Tazz even got the dig at WWE in there.
We expecting Cage to win the title?
I've said before, that's why new guys shouldn't be going for the title right away, because they either have to pull the trigger and give him the title or else kill any momentum.

You are correct and I do agree.
It's just a booking trope tho. You have a new wrestler debuting and you wanna give him some steam. To establish him to your audience.
Now on paper or seemingly the "correct way" would be him to fail winning the belt because of some external factor (outside interference, ref wasn't looking etc take your pick) That keeps him strong to go into a fued and programme where you actually build them up. The planned road map for them. The title match was just the start.

The problem with that is the more it's done the more it's just some expected direction. That's not entertaining as you say. It's predictable.

Agent Coulson

Brian Pillman Jr will make his debut on Dark next Tuesday against Shawn Spears.

Neil3030

For me, the biggest indictment on AEW's booking is that 9 months into their TV, they have no clear top guy. Right now it's probably right that Moxley has the belt, as he's probably the best all round talent in the company, but I'm just not sure how much of a draw he'll prove to be over the next few years.

They've largely managed to feck up every alternative option:

Cody is a revolving tribute act to old southern gimmicks. He reeks of insincerity and clearly has no idea how to develop his own persona.

Omega will never recapture the momentum he built up leaving NJPW, and is now just another guy. To his credit he's being his own man, but the goofier stuff will set his limit as the midcard.

Jericho was the best thing on the show until they buried him with comedy segments.

Archer had potential but will again struggle to recapture his mystique after losing to Cody. No idea why he's working with Joey Janella, that won't help him at all.

I like Page but I just think he's not quite the promo or the worker to be a top star.

MJF probably needs another year.

Jungle Boy probably needs another 5 years.

To be perfectly honest, if Brian Cage's work is good (agreed he should do no acrobatics, but that's probably wishful thinking), and with Taz as his promo, he's about their last hope of an unspoiled main eventer.

This is probably just me but does anyone else hate that they announce everything beforehand for nearly every Dynamite? They'll announce all 4/5 matches, every interview segment etc. I wouldn't mind some storylines that develop through out a show that leads to a match later in the night.

It's probably hard to do without an authority figure (and believe me that's the last thing I want especially a heel) but wouldn't mind something like JJ Dillon in WCW in 98 where he'll just appear to announce a match for later in the night.

Just realised that all my posts so far sound like I hate AEW

I was a big WCW fan back in the day (watched WWF as well but always preferred WCW) so I'm pulling for AEW to be successful so they're an alternative to WWE on a national level like WCW. AEW (along with a bit of Impact and when they were TNA in years gone by) is really the only wrestling I watch these days so will be mainly what I'll comment on. I'll always keep up with what WWE are doing though through news sites, social media etc.

It's like supporting your favourite football team. I want them to do well but I will mainly complain about stuff they do that I don't like haha.

CastorTroy

I think Tony Khan is an authority figure they've used before to make matches.
Though as I and others have said before about WWE, it comes across as very disorganised. It seems like Raw goes on the air with an attitude of "sure we'll see what happens and make matches based on that". If everyone was nice to each other there would rarely be a main event and the show would be much shorter with only the couple scheduled matches

Neil3030

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is probably just me but does anyone else hate that they announce everything beforehand for nearly every Dynamite? They'll announce all 4/5 matches, every interview segment etc. I wouldn't mind some storylines that develop through out a show that leads to a match later in the night.

It's probably hard to do without an authority figure (and believe me that's the last thing I want especially a heel) but wouldn't mind something like JJ Dillon in WCW in 98 where he'll just appear to announce a match for later in the night.

I badly wanted this company to succeed but am finding increasingly fewer positive things to say about their product lately.

thebostoncrab

Neil3030 wrote: »

For me, the biggest indictment on AEW's booking is that 9 months into their TV, they have no clear top guy. Right now it's probably right that Moxley has the belt, as he's probably the best all round talent in the company, but I'm just not sure how much of a draw he'll prove to be over the next few years.

They've largely managed to feck up every alternative option:

Cody is a revolving tribute act to old southern gimmicks. He reeks of insincerity and clearly has no idea how to develop his own persona.

Omega will never recapture the momentum he built up leaving NJPW, and is now just another guy. To his credit he's being his own man, but the goofier stuff will set his limit as the midcard.

Jericho was the best thing on the show until they buried him with comedy segments.

Archer had potential but will again struggle to recapture his mystique after losing to Cody. No idea why he's working with Joey Janella, that won't help him at all.

I like Page but I just think he's not quite the promo or the worker to be a top star.

MJF probably needs another year.

Jungle Boy probably needs another 5 years.

To be perfectly honest, if Brian Cage's work is good (agreed he should do no acrobatics, but that's probably wishful thinking), and with Taz as his promo, he's about their last hope of an unspoiled main eventer.

You hit the nail on the head, better than anything else I've read to pin point the exact issue AEW has right now. When I read your post I challenged myself to think about who is the "main eventer" in AEW besides Mox....and for everyone not called Brian Cage I found a reason to say "But they won't beat Mox for the belt", and that's solely down to a lack of guys being presented as top tier level. I often use the final boss anaolgy for this. In a video game I will have to go against general bad guys (Mid card), sub boss (Upper mind card) and then end level boss (Main event). I can't put anyone in as an end level boss. The only person I could argue is Cody, but due to that stupid gimmick match he can't go for the belt.

The other issue when someone starts gaining momentum, they haveto put them in a tag team because they want to the the company that is seen as the company for tag team wrestling. And I'd say that has worked, because the tag division is stacked and full of teams that could legit challenge Kenny and Hangman....but it's come at the cost of your singles main event scene. I can't wait for Hangman and Kenny to move away from the tag scene so the singles division gets two potential end level bosses.

ThePott

I feel they really fumbled with Omega. I think they were worried about looking like they were pushing themselves and this is a valid concern but he was legit one of the biggest names in wrestling not long ago and now he's just another guy. He's lost his momentum.

I remember reading someone say once that AEW are booking Kenny the way everyone feared WWE would which I think is a bit drastic but not far off. I feel like that with a lot of AEW's roster. It feels like they want everyone to feel like the top guys but there probably should be a limit to who is at the top of the card and who is in the middle, not everyone can be at the top and there's nothing wrong with that.

Neil3030

thebostoncrab wrote: »

You hit the nail on the head, better than anything else I've read to pin point the exact issue AEW has right now. When I read your post I challenged myself to think about who is the "main eventer" in AEW besides Mox....and for everyone not called Brian Cage I found a reason to say "But they won't beat Mox for the belt", and that's solely down to a lack of guys being presented as top tier level. I often use the final boss anaolgy for this. In a video game I will have to go against general bad guys (Mid card), sub boss (Upper mind card) and then end level boss (Main event). I can't put anyone in as an end level boss. The only person I could argue is Cody, but due to that stupid gimmick match he can't go for the belt.

The other issue when someone starts gaining momentum, they haveto put them in a tag team because they want to the the company that is seen as the company for tag team wrestling. And I'd say that has worked, because the tag division is stacked and full of teams that could legit challenge Kenny and Hangman....but it's come at the cost of your singles main event scene. I can't wait for Hangman and Kenny to move away from the tag scene so the singles division gets two potential end level bosses.

ThePott wrote: »

I feel they really fumbled with Omega. I think they were worried about looking like they were pushing themselves and this is a valid concern but he was legit one of the biggest names in wrestling not long ago and now he's just another guy. He's lost his momentum.

I remember reading someone say once that AEW are booking Kenny the way everyone feared WWE would which I think is a bit drastic but not far off. I feel like that with a lot of AEW's roster. It feels like they want everyone to feel like the top guys but there probably should be a limit to who is at the top of the card and who is in the middle, not everyone can be at the top and there's nothing wrong with that.

McMahon makes no secret about only focusing his energy on a handful of people at a time, those that he sees as his top 4 or 5 stars. They'll get pushed beyond the moon, while the remainder of the card just make up the numbers.

I feel this was the primary gripe amongst the "core" AEW / Independent fanbase - there were guys down the WWE card that they wanted pushed (Rusev, etc) and guys at the top that they didn't like (Roman), and further, they felt powerless about influencing either situation. No amount of cheers for Rusev or boos for Roman changed WWE's mind.

AEW, it's now clear, set out their stall to be antithesis to the WWE model - make sure everyone in the card gets their moment to shine, and have no clear favourites at the top. This was initially refreshing, and admirable to a certain extent, as I'm sure it helps foster a more collaborative atmosphere amongst talent.

But stars sell tickets. Stars get fans excited about a show. Stars get fans to buy the ppv. Stars keep fans up the extra hour into the small hours of the morning to see their match (well, maybe more relevant for us European fans). By trying too much to NOT be WWE, AEW have neglected one of the fundamental strategies of the wrestling business. And I feel their declining ratings now reflect this.

I think I've made this point a few times here, but the worst case of this has been in their women's division. You had a monster heel (Rose) with limitless potential - great look, size, powerful, can move, very convincing promo. She's the complete package, or at least, very close to it. And within the first year she has already lost at least twice in singles matches. Last match I saw her in, she was bumping around the arena for a woman half her size. Good luck getting her heat back!

LineOfBeauty

The Omega takes are wide of the mark.

He and Jericho were the clear top two in the company at the point of formation. They headlined a ppv and Jericho won. They put the belt on Jericho and in that time they've moved Omega away from the top position and others have been elevated as a result. A big issue with the roster on formation was that Omega, Jericho aside, had no natural rival for the ace position. So they've worked a long storyline with Page that should bring him up to that level while also elevating the tag team division (every company needs USP's and the tag stuff is AEW's). When the time comes the elevation of Omega to top singles star is easy but the time to do that is when he has legitimate challengers and contenders in fans eyes and, compared to when the company first started, in Cody, Mox, Jericho and soon Page they'll have genuine contenders for him as ace and that's genuinely just very well thought out booking.

connemara man

And AEW seem very much in holding pattern feuds until crowds are in. Knowing they need that reaction for some of the bigger stuff

Neil3030

Omega should have ridden his momentum from Japan and murdered anyone he got in the ring with. He should have either been screwed out of the belt by Jericho, and now be undefeated in his pursuit, or he should have won the belt and stayed undefeated. In either case he establishes himself as their ace. You can't just push a button and overwrite nearly a year of bad booking.

RollieFingers

I've enjoyed Omega in AEW, him and Hangman have been a great pairing. Also like Mox as the champ, for me there's a bit of an aura around him that not many in wrestling have these days, he's definitely worthy of holding the belt.

Looking forward to catching BPJ on Dark tonight!

sky88

connemara man wrote: »

And AEW seem very much in holding pattern feuds until crowds are in. Knowing they need that reaction for some of the bigger stuff

with the way america is going this may not be till 2021 will be hard to keep that momentum in stories going

ThePott

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

They put the belt on Jericho and in that time they've moved Omega away from the top position and others have been elevated as a result.

How so? Omega has still very much been top of the card, he main evented over the belt to put over Moxley. Who already would have been a main eventer. Hangman was a big deal already before being paired with him after the build to the first All Out. Who else has elevated from pairing with Omega? Moxley was already a big deal. Jericho has certainly elevated others but I don't feel Omega has necessarily.

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

When the time comes the elevation of Omega to top singles star is easy but the time to do that is when he has legitimate challengers and contenders in fans eyes and, compared to when the company first started, in Cody, Mox, Jericho and soon Page they'll have genuine contenders for him as ace and that's genuinely just very well thought out booking.

All of these contenders were there early on anyway. Save for page they were pretty much at the top of the card from the inception of AEW. Are you really saying Jericho is a better contender now that he was a few months ago? Moxley already beat Omega not even that long ago and it was the main event essentially. I agree with you of course that this can all be undone over time when you put him back as a singles competitor but my only point was that they had probably the biggest non-WWE name in wrestling and I feel they squandered it.

I think it's pretty clear that AEW has put stories on hold until crowds come back but I don't think that excuses everything. I still think they messed up with Omega. Has he really raised anyone's profile? I don't think Hangman has been benefited from being paired with him and granted they've pumped the brakes on a lot of these stories until things get back to normal but I don't think the tag titles feel all that relevant. They weren't even defended at Double or Nothing.


I like AEW but it certainly has felt stale as of late in my opinion.

Neil3030

Forget you know anything about Omega and you just looked at his spots on AEW PPVs or TV specials:

Lost to Jericho
Part of a six-man tag
Beat Cima
Lost to Pac
Lost to Moxley
Part of a tag match
Part of a 5-on-5 gimmick match

Is this getting him over as their ace? Could you imagine Gedo booking Okada like this if NJPW were breaking into the U.S.?

Also - how if you want to build Page as a singles guy... why on earth put him in a tag team??

beakerjoe

Neil3030 wrote: »

Omega should have ridden his momentum from Japan and murdered anyone he got in the ring with. He should have either been screwed out of the belt by Jericho, and now be undefeated in his pursuit, or he should have won the belt and stayed undefeated. In either case he establishes himself as their ace. You can't just push a button and overwrite nearly a year of bad booking.

He had a great bout with Trent, as wrestling matches go, on Dynamite a few months ago.

But thats the problem, he should be killing Trent in a match. Trents a solid worker, but hes just a guy and yet hes going toe to toe with a top star.

If they want to make Kenny a top star/end level boss in teh future, it wont be hard, but right now Kenny has cooled off big time. The should have pulled the trigger on him v Hangman ages ago.

beakerjoe

Neil3030 wrote: »

Forget you know anything about Omega and you just looked at his spots on AEW PPVs or TV specials:

Lost to Jericho
Part of a six-man tag
Beat Cima
Lost to Pac
Lost to Moxley
Part of a tag match
Part of a 5-on-5 gimmick match

Is this getting him over as their ace? Could you imagine Gedo booking Okada like this if NJPW were breaking into the U.S.?

Also - how if you want to build Page as a singles guy... why on earth put him in a tag team??

The booking initially was sound, hes in a team with Omega and they had difference and troubles. And their match/ feud with the Bucks was fantastic booking. But they moved far too slow with this angle and the trigger should have been pulled a few weeks later.

Neil3030

beakerjoe wrote: »

The booking initially was sound, hes in a team with Omega and they had difference and troubles. And their match/ feud with the Bucks was fantastic booking. But they moved far too slow with this angle and the trigger should have been pulled a few weeks later.

Fantastic booking to what end?

The supposed top tag team lost to a non tag team (2nd ppv in a row they lost). So they're swimming up stream now to try get some momentum for FTR.

Meanwhile, you keep the tag belts on two guys, one of whom should be the ace of the company, and the other who has huge potential and needs to start establishing himself in the singles division.

What am I missing here?

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Brian Pillman Jr will make his debut on Dark next Tuesday against Shawn Spears.

I was a big fan of his father. Is junior any good?

beakerjoe

Neil3030 wrote: »

Fantastic booking to what end?

The supposed top tag team lost to a non tag team (2nd ppv in a row they lost). So they're swimming up stream now to try get some momentum for FTR.

Meanwhile, you keep the tag belts on two guys, one of whom should be the ace of the company, and the other who has huge potential and needs to start establishing himself in the singles division.

What am I missing here?

Well like I said it was initially good. The match was hot, the animosity was nicely teased. I wanted to see Omega and Hangman explode.

It didnt happen and is now so cooled off I dont care.

Deleted User wrote: »

I was a big fan of his father. Is junior any good?

Hes very green. Has the tools and is enthusiastic, but he needs work. One for the future.

Riddle101

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Brian Pillman Jr will make his debut on Dark next Tuesday against Shawn Spears.

Deleted User wrote: »

I was a big fan of his father. Is junior any good?

I've heard good things about Jr but It looks like he's copying his father a little which is not a good sign. Generation superstars should be trying to get out of the shadow of their fathers by doing their own thing but a lot of them seem to fall into the cliche of being just like their parents which only makes it harder for generation superstars to be taken more seriously by fans. I wish him the best anyway.

Agent Coulson

The Puppy Battle Royal tonight

grames_bond

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The Puppy Battle Royal tonight

I am more excited about this than anything else in wrestling right now! :pac:

Agent Coulson

HHH in an interview with Sports Illustrated openly admits that the WWE is counter programming AEW and will continue to do so.

sky88

Agent Coulson wrote: »

HHH in an interview with Sports Illustrated openly admits that the WWE is counter programming AEW and will continue to do so.

of course they do there head to head both shows will do it

and i think both shows should like if AEW is promoting fyter fest they need to counter with GAB to try keep ratings same it and vice versa

CastorTroy

Wonder if WWE have a name for next week's NXT to counter Fight for the Fallen

Lithium93_

They got spooked, and decided to do The Great American Bash on a week's notice.