More than 5 rounds....

dc99

Hi,
So has anyone tried - or is it doable to apply for a pistol (rimfire .22lr) with more than 5 rounds?

This, as I understand, it is then a restricted firearm, but its not a centerfired. So could it be granted? Or does the legislation disallow it?

Witcher

It's a restricted short firearm, can't be licenced anymore. Calibre makes no difference.

Cass

As above the SI does not say it has to be a centrefire only that restricted short firearm licenses are no longer to be granted. So as soon as the license becomes restricted (centrefire, or rimfire with more than 5 rounds) the license cannot be applied for let alone granted.

Zxthinger

If I remember correctly the legislation stated that the magizine capacity is restricted to 5.
So that's fairly black and white.

Don't suppose anyone knows the link to the actual legal portion of the statute book?

Cass

Zxthinger wrote: »

If I remember correctly the legislation stated that the magizine capacity is restricted to 5.
So that's fairly black and white.

Not so.

You are referring to the SI (21/2008 as amended by 337/2009) which is different from the primary legislation that makes any new restricted license unobtainable.

The SI only lists what is classed as restricted in terms of firearms and ammunition. The Primary legislation says why you cannot license a restricted short firearm since Nov 2008 unless you previously held a license for it.

Don't suppose anyone knows the link to the actual legal portion of the statute book?

Section 30 of the 2009 Criminal justice and miscellaneous provisions act which amends section 3 of the principal act to include three new sub sections. (b)(C) & (D).

The one you want is section 3(d).

clivej

Friend has a restricted .22 pistol license so he can put more than 5 rounds in the mag. Had this before 2008

gunny123

What gets up my nose is they could not stretch a point and make it six rounds rather than five.
I have had a barney more than once with the gardai over this while trying to licence my revolver.
Tbe whole thing is a farce anyway, its like lads with five or six shot semi-auto shotguns, plugging them with a bit of wooden dowel to restrict them to three rounds.

dc99

So thats a no go, thanks for the info - I always wondered if it was legally possible

solarwinds

I tried and failed cant be done.

alanmc

As a slight tangent, are there any groups or individuals currently lobbying to get these 2009 ammendments changed/reverted?

I don't have much of an interest in handguns myself, but the 'ban' seems a little ludicrous.

gunny123

alanmc wrote: »

As a slight tangent, are there any groups or individuals currently lobbying to get these 2009 ammendments changed/reverted?

I don't have much of an interest in handguns myself, but the 'ban' seems a little ludicrous.

There is one group, but the remedy is worse than the disease :rolleyes:

tac foley

alanmc wrote: »

As a slight tangent, are there any groups or individuals currently lobbying to get these 2009 ammendments changed/reverted?

I don't have much of an interest in handguns myself, but the 'ban' seems a little ludicrous.

Reading the posts here for the last six or seven years or so, it seems that you'd have more luck re-making a fried egg.

Zxthinger

gunny123 wrote: »

What gets up my nose is they could not stretch a point and make it six rounds rather than five.
I have had a barney more than once with the gardai over this while trying to licence my revolver.
Tbe whole thing is a farce anyway, its like lads with five or six shot semi-auto shotguns, plugging them with a bit of wooden dowel to restrict them to three rounds.

The law states that only short arms which are designed to run with mags holding 5 or less rounds can be licenced.
Technically a revolver has no mag so as such they are either allowed in 6 shots or in actual fact any revolver is actually restricted.

That's the BS the pairs us green.

solarwinds

I tried that argument with a S&W 17, stating that the cylinder was integral to the handgun and not a separate magazine. I was told its the thing that holds the bullets and if it takes more than 5 then no chance, i was even told that if i wanted 6 rounds in a handgun to load 1 into the chamber then the mag holding 5. I asked would that not be the same as a 6 shot revolver, I was told no ?. Very hard to get satisfaction from a person like that.

Zxthinger

The problem is that they, the clowns have technical made revolvers restricted. They are a bunch of anchors. Lol

And what's more is that we let them. We all stood there and endorsed the nonsense by saying that "oh yes revolvers are now restricted to 5 shots"

The fizzing law now states that a short arm has to be restricted to shooting .22LR and that if must have a magizine restricted or designed to carry 5 or less rounds.
As some of you noted 'Revolvers don't have Magizines'

So where does that leave us.

judestynes

This 5 rounds malarky, is this an EU or an Irish reg? If it's EU wide then manufacturers may put products on the market to facilitate that market but if it's just Ireland they wont

tac foley

I don't know of ANY other nation in the EU that limits the capacity of a magazine, or reduces the capacity of a revolver by physically preventing a cartridge from being loaded.

solarwinds

Yes because if we had 6 in a revolver that would turn us all into homicidal maniacs, we should be thanking our wise and all knowing government for keeping us shooters and the general population safe by only allowing us to have 5 rounds.
As usual the only thought the PTB put into this was how can we f**k it up for everyone.

BattleCorp

judestynes wrote: »

This 5 rounds malarky, is this an EU or an Irish reg? If it's EU wide then manufacturers may put products on the market to facilitate that market but if it's just Ireland they wont

It's an Irish thing. The powers that be mustn't have looked at the types of pistol competitions being shot in Ireland or if they did, then they set out to screw things up for us on purpose.

They saw that Olympic pistol comps used 5 rounds so they ignored the fact that what most of us compete in involves strings of 6 shots (t&p, multi-target etc.) and decided that 5 rounds was enough for us.

Grizzly 45

solarwinds wrote: »

As usual the only thought the PTB put into this was how can we f**k it up for everyone.

More like Fuddism and vested interests on our side doing it for us all again.:mad:

judestynes

BattleCorp wrote: »

It's an Irish thing. The powers that be mustn't have looked at the types of pistol competitions being shot in Ireland or if they did, then they set out to screw things up for us on purpose.

They saw that Olympic pistol comps used 5 rounds so they ignored the fact that what most of us compete in involves strings of 6 shots (t&p, multi-target etc.) and decided that 5 rounds was enough for us.

Are 5 shot revolvers or 5 shot magazine available commercially though? Why only liscence a product that isn't available to buy.

BattleCorp

judestynes wrote: »

Are 5 shot revolvers or 5 shot magazine available commercially though? Why only liscence a product that isn't available to buy.

5 round .22lr revolvers are manufactured but the vast majority of revolvers are 6 rounds or more. There are a good few pistols that have 5 round magazines (especially ones designed for the Olympics) but the vast majority of .22 pistols would have 10 round magazines.

But what the fcuk good is a 5 round revolver when the course of fire is 6 rounds. Same with an Olympic stype pistol such as a Walther SSP which is a state of the art target pistol but isn't worth a fidlers fcuk here when doing t&p or multi-target and many other 6 string competitions. Pure stupidity.

judestynes

Presumably when writing new legislation in anything the government get input from experts in that particular field like changes in construction legislation they'd get advice from engineers or builders or medicine from doctors. Who advises them in relation to firearms? Can't just be the gards.

BattleCorp

judestynes wrote: »

Presumably when writing new legislation in anything the government get input from experts in that particular field like changes in construction legislation they'd get advice from engineers or builders or medicine from doctors. Who advises them in relation to firearms? Can't just be the gards.

They seem to get their info from Google.

judestynes

BattleCorp wrote: »

They seem to get their info from Google.

If that were true we'd have bazooka's lol.

BattleCorp

judestynes wrote: »

If that were true we'd have bazooka's lol.

I can't remember exactly and I'm sure Grizzly or one of the guys will be able to tell you but I think one Government expert gave evidence and said a rifle is dangerous out to 5 miles. Must be some rifle.

tac foley

BattleCorp wrote: »

They seem to get their info from Marvel Comics.

FIFY.

tac foley

BattleCorp wrote: »

I can't remember exactly and I'm sure Grizzly or one of the guys will be able to tell you but I think one Government expert gave evidence and said a rifle is dangerous out to 5 miles. Must be some rifle.

Also, and it might just have been the same Einstein of Firearms, a comment was made that the .303 was FAR too accurate to be allowed in the hands of civilians...


You'd be hard-pressed to make it up.

judestynes

BattleCorp wrote: »

I can't remember exactly and I'm sure Grizzly or one of the guys will be able to tell you but I think one Government expert gave evidence and said a rifle is dangerous out to 5 miles. Must be some rifle.

Did this "expert" quantify their statement expresiing what kind of rifle. What calibre, propellent, load, bullet weight all these unimportant things us non experts know nothing about?

BattleCorp

judestynes wrote: »

Did this "expert" quantify their statement expresiing what kind of rifle. What calibre, propellent, load, bullet weight all these unimportant things us non experts know nothing about?

I'll let someone else answer that one as I don't rightly know but I doubt it.

I think one of our experts did a weekend course in a college in Scotland.

tac foley

judestynes wrote: »

Did this "expert" quantify their statem
ent expresiing what kind of rifle. What calibre, propellent, load, bullet weight all these unimportant things us non experts know nothing about?

IIRC the expert was talking about the common or garden .308Win.

judestynes

tac foley wrote: »

IIRC the expert was talking about the common or garden .308Win.

Goes 5 miles??? Really?

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

I can't remember exactly and I'm sure Grizzly or one of the guys will be able to tell you but I think one Government expert gave evidence and said a rifle is dangerous out to 5 miles. Must be some rifle.

There have been a few comedians like that in courts and spewing their BS on Irish MSM as well. The comedian that said that was from the Irish officer corps, who has /had set him up quite comfortably as "technical advisor" to RTE and the Irish Times as well as a teaching job in one of Dublin's tech schools /colleges on all things military related.
I dunno what or who he was commanding in the Irish army, maybe he was OC in digging latrine pits or Hesco/sandbag filling? But he knew Jack sht about firearms in one hatchet job on shooting in prime time investigates back in 07. Then when he realised what sort of damage he did to his reputation, he wrote an article in the IT on how good shooting really is in Ireland.

"Inspector Google" was the nickname given to the then AGS ballistic expert. Not by us shooters mind! But by his own dept and the DOJ!
So yes in a way Battle corp was spot on !. This is the expert who was ......No! I just can't mention some of the stuff and incidents in courts across the land that I both witnessed, experienced, and heard about. Especially when he was facing his mentor and trainer in ballistics in the witness box.If it weren't so serious, it was the stuff of Father Ted episodes.

I think one of our experts did a weekend course in a college in Scotland.

Yup.Inspector Google's apprentice and current man in charge? in the AGS ballistics dept.Got a degree in either engineering or technical studies and this weekend course off some Scottish university.[Edinburgh or Dundee methinks]Compared to what most EU ballistics experts working for the police have..Things like doctorates, masters ten plus years experiance working in the arms industries and proof houses etc...

Still, he was the good fellah that stated in his expert opinion, that the EU directives on noise abatement, and shooting in valleys where the shot will echo multiple times and spook livestock,is good enough reason to grant a .308 silencer to me. So I can't write him off completely.:D

Zxthinger

solarwinds wrote: »

As usual the only thought the PTB put into this was how can we f**k it up for everyone.

It's seems that's their plan alright.

Zxthinger

tac foley wrote: »

Also, and it might just have been the same Einstein of Firearms, a comment was made that the .303 was FAR too accurate to be allowed in the hands of civilians...


You'd be hard-pressed to make it up.

Thanks for the laugh. I needed it.

Sika98k

BattleCorp wrote: »

They seem to get their info from Google.

And the movies.

judestynes

I don't understand this when our defence forces have competent armourer's well capable of giving insightful and pertinent evidence in court.

Grizzly 45

One of us posters here is in that position,and I'm sure he'll tell his story one day,as to what kind of dirty tricks were pulled on him for being in that position as both a gun owner and for trying to go as an independent witness for gun owners by AGS.:(

GolfVI

BattleCorp wrote: »

I can't remember exactly and I'm sure Grizzly or one of the guys will be able to tell you but I think one Government expert gave evidence and said a rifle is dangerous out to 5 miles. Must be some rifle.

5 miles is 8km.. for comparison the max range of the Defence Forces 120mm Ruag Mortar is 7.5km..

so ive no idea what kind of “rifle” this “ expert “ is talking about.

tac foley

GolfVI wrote: »

5 miles is 8km.. for comparison the max range of the Defence Forces 120mm Ruag Mortar is 7.5km..

so ive no idea what kind of “rifle” this “ expert “ is talking about.

We said already - the actual rifle was not mentioned, just the calibre - .308Win.

GolfVI

tac foley wrote: »

We said already - the actual rifle was not mentioned, just the calibre - .308Win.

Must have been fired out of one of hitlers rail guns so

Zxthinger

Maybe someone more advanced than I could include a pole upon which we could vote on some of the law that we would like to see changed.
The we could quote percentages at political puppets and make statements that 97% of shooters agree that air rifle laws need to be relaxed as the sport is being stifled.

Seriously though these posts just turn into sessions of mad posts.

Air rifles need to be given some consesions thereby allow civilian shooters to actually have, dare I say it, fun..

Air rifles are nearly a completely different branch of shooting. Let us have some degree of modern freedom by reducing the shackles of standard licensing protocol which severs to curtail the free trade in these "5mile guns" and leave it at that.

The pigeon man

GolfVI wrote: »

5 miles is 8km.. for comparison the max range of the Defence Forces 120mm Ruag Mortar is 7.5km..

so ive no idea what kind of “rifle” this “ expert “ is talking about.

I suppose this would be possible if you pointed your 308 at a 45 degree angle into the air. Not that you'd be able to hit anything accurately.

Dropping a rock from a helicopter at a height would be far more lethal if it hit anything.

BattleCorp

GolfVI wrote: »

Must have been fired out of one of hitlers rail guns so

As a member of an Garda Siochana firearms bureau, based on my knowledge of firearms, I can categorically state that the firearm weapon in that picture is a .22lr.*











*May not actually be a member of An Garda Siochana.

BattleCorp

The pigeon man wrote: »

I suppose this would be possible if you pointed your 308 at a 45 degree angle into the air. Not that you'd be able to hit anything accurately.
.

Technically the Garda is right. The .308 bullet can easily go 5 miles........ If you fire it in space.

solarwinds

BattleCorp wrote: »

GolfVI wrote: »

Must have been fired out of one of hitlers rail guns so

As a member of an Garda Siochana firearms bureau, based on my knowledge of firearms, I can categorically state that the firearm weapon in that picture is a .22lr.*











*May not actually be a member of An Garda Siochana.

And it has a magazine capacity of less than 5 rounds, a barrel longer than 4". Happy days I expect good news from my application.

Heckler

Can't have more than 5 rounds so put one up the spout and 5 in the mag for a t&P, multi etc.as you go on the line ? Are they insane ?

A holstered gun with a round chambered. Jeez what could go wrong there...

Just as well anyone with common sense won't do that but can still fire a course :rolleyes:

Grizzly 45

GolfVI wrote: »

Must have been fired out of one of Hitler's rail guns so

The Nazis "Dora" or "Big Gustav" gun in the pic. Only needed to fire.
A 500 man crew to fire it.1,500 man crew to disassemble, move, reassemble, on a special train of 25 cars on double railway tracks at its new position, and about a month of work to get it ready to fire. 250 shots and the barrel is kaputt,and needed replacement.
But it could lob a 7metric ton AP/HE shell 40 kilometres that could go thru 8meters of re-enforced concrete combined with 1meter re-enforced armour plate. The Germans only needed 47 shots to reduce the Crimean fortress peninsula along with the city of Sevastopol to an utter ruin within 6weeks.

Utterly trifling firepower altogether compared to the "Irish 308":rolleyes:

solarwinds

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

GolfVI wrote: »

Must have been fired out of one of Hitler's rail guns so

The Nazis "Dora" or "Big Gustav" gun in the pic. Only needed to fire.
A 500 man crew to fire it.1,500 man crew to disassemble, move, reassemble, on a special train of 25 cars on double railway tracks at its new position, and about a month of work to get it ready to fire. 250 shots and the barrel is kaputt,and needed replacement.
But it could lob a 7metric ton AP/HE shell 40 kilometres that could go thru 8meters of re-enforced concrete combined with 1meter re-enforced armour plate. The Germans only needed 47 shots to reduce the Crimean fortress peninsula along with the city of Sevastopol to an utter ruin within 6weeks.

Utterly trifling firepower altogether compared to the "Irish 308":rolleyes:

Not 308 you mean 303 lazer rounds surely.