Irish rail fleet and infrastructure plans

Peregrine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121776#Comment_118121776

https://www.railwaygazette.com/traction-and-rolling-stock/iarnrod-eireann-orders-stage-v-mtu-powerpacks/57039.article

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Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121776#Comment_118121776

Always slot the middle cars in them isolate the engine if needed like they used to do when they rolled out the ICRs first. Given the delays and demand can't see there been a major rush to get them into service anyway.

I do wonder if they are saving as much fuel as alleged.

ohographite

I have a couple of questions regarding the battery-electric trains that Irish Rail plan to order as part of DART+.

Is it known what route(s) Irish Rail plan to run these trains on? Is it known how far the trains will be able to go without needing their batteries charged?

Peregrine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296858#Comment_118296858

Yes. Initially, Drogheda. After Drogheda is electrified, we don't know. Wicklow, Naas and Kilcock could receive them before they're electrified in 2031-2042. Or Dundalk even. The Navan railway line study assumes the BEMUs will eventually be transferred to Navan in the 2040s after all DART lines are electrified. They could even go to Cork or something.

No, we don't know the precise details of the tender but it's expected that it won't be able to do a return trip to Drogheda and that a charging station will be needed at Drogheda to top up the batteries.

Jamie2k9

DART fleet contracts signed. Pic of fleet.

Also the first TFI branding. Internally is very Thameslink.

https://twitter.com/irishrail/status/1470354920440320005?s=21

dowlingm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296858#Comment_118296858

80km range for the BEMUs - release linked below

https://ml-eu.globenewswire.com/Resource/Download/ed0a1d0b-b2f7-4520-ab06-3eacf947303d

Zebra3

Trains look decent.

My only question is does this order make any part of the DART+ project more uncancellable, or a lot more so?

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315487#Comment_118315487

Well they need the new depot for these new trains and that is part of DART+ West so this makes that infinitely more uncancellable at the very least. The battery units will need charging at Drogheda so works will have to happen there also.

loyatemu

the main risk is that if the BEMU units work well, they might think "well why bother electrifying extra lines".

But the overhead line works should be underway at least on the Maynooth and Hazelhatch lines by the time these trains arrive.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317218#Comment_118317218

that is ultimately it unfortunately, i still remain believing that electrification would have been the best option.

in saying that, we are going to be stuck with these now so they better work, we cannot afford more lemons and if they don't work it's hundreds of millions down the drain on a failed experiment.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317680#Comment_118317680

Alstom have to maintain them for 15 years, while obviously it would make sense for Irish Rail to develop these skills themselves this ensures Alstom have to keep the damn things running for 15 years.

On past experience with Alstom EMUs with a 7 year service life, 15 would be a huge improvement!

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317694#Comment_118317694

that is good news and i agree, though i don't think the 8200s even saw 7 years in service did they?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317733#Comment_118317733

Think it was 00-08 with gaps, might have been more like 6 actually in service. I think they were more GEC designs than Alstom but the support was appalling.

patrickbrophy18

I think the train experience for those as far out as Drogheda will be downgraded given that the DART will be stopping at all stations to Dublin City and they will be lacking in the on-board toilet department. Yeah, Intercity trains will still stop there. But, we need to keep the deal sweet for passengers too.

Kudos on the wheelchair friendly retractable ramps, the USB docks and ease of movement between carriages. Also, the overall look of the exterior is very nice with a continental touch in keeping with the X'Trapolis image.

Praetorian

Does anyone have information on the models that are being ordered? What top speed? I think anything less than 160kph would be disappointing. Assume they will have DART like acceleration running connected with a pantograph. What acceleration / top speed running on batteries?

I hope they don't end up being a disaster like the 8200's as well.

Ireland trains

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118319050#Comment_118319050

To be fair to Alstom they also built the Luas trams which are fine.

In regards to Drogheda service it's been mentioned that there will be fast(er) services which don't stop everywhere.

Ireland trains

Will there be a similar number of seats to the current 8500 fleet.

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118320805#Comment_118320805

A five car set will have room for 550 passengers, a 29000 has room for 819 passengers according to official figures, the DART fleet has similar capacity so a reduction in passenger capacity per set, however, service frequency and number of sets used would then need to be taken into account to see any +/- in passenger capacity.

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118320784#Comment_118320784

To be fair most Alstom products are very good products, the 2700s (and for example the UK 458s and 460s) of the GEC Alstom days came at a time of poor unreliable (and cheap?) builds from the late 90s/early 00s, a tradition which thankfully has not followed Alstom post the mid 00s.

Decuc500

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318899#Comment_118318899

I doubt every DART from Drogheda will be stopping at existing DART stops. It was overcrowded enough already in rush hour at Raheny for DART's from Malahide. Imagine trying to get on one from Drogheda!

DumbBrunette

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1266732/

The article doesn't actually say what the 90m will be spent on. Is it the level crossings removal project?

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118322048#Comment_118322048

This sounds like continued track renewal and ballast cleaning. Interested to know what minor works they refer to at Limerick Junction and does this funding include the Curragh upgrade assuming not.

The Cork LC project will be separate funding and this might be the first reference to 125mph running not that it can happen anytime soon.

As for journey, presume that is just restoring the 2019 schedule before they added 8-10 minutes to Cork services.

Jamie2k9

Funding is for:

• Support ‘improved line speeds’ on the Cork route with additional funds allocated to the Cork Line Rehabilitation Project (CLRP). While this route is a key piece of national infrastructure and is the highest earning revenue Intercity route for Iarnród Éireann, it has some of the oldest track infrastructure in the network and is nearing its end of life cycle. The project will bring the line speed up to 100mph and will involve over the three year period 2022- 2024 track renewal (50.5 kms), ballast cleaning (44kms) and drainage (25.6kms). Works undertaken in recent years has delivered 160kph (100mph) running from outside Heuston to Portlaoise and through Ballybrophy. As track work is being renewed, the geometry and materials of the replacement track is being put in place to accommodate future speeds of up to 200kph (125mph )subject to fleet and signalling capabilities).
• Support a ‘Sustainable Railway’ by targeting spend on the Limerick - Waterford line. Works will include elimination of 1-2 level crossings per annum and minor geometry improvements and upgrades at 2-3 locations per annum.
• Support a ‘Climate Resilient Railway’ including feasibility studies to assist with the identification and scoping of climate resilience projects.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/0c427-minister-ryan-announces-additional-funding-for-heavy-rail/

Geuze

I believe it's 266km from Heuston to Cork?

In my opinion, two hours should be the target timing.

That means 133kph average speed.

After the 94.5 million expenditure, is that achievable, assuming few stops?

Or is it achievable non-stop?

loyatemu

I thought they said on the news they were targeting a 2h30 journey time but the non-stop service is already 2h20 so knock 10 mins off that I guess.

Ireland trains

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330963#Comment_118330963

Express was 2h15

Pre-covid average journey time was 2h30 with fastest non-express taking approx 2h25.

Has there been any time trials before and if so what was the fastest jt.

Geuze

The proposed revisions to TEN-T suggest a min speed of 160kph by 2040.

https://transport.ec.europa.eu/news/action-plan-boost-passenger-rail-2021-12-14_en

I think TEN-T in Ireland is just Connolly to Belfast and Heuston to Cork?

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118332023#Comment_118332023

There doesn't need to be trails.

Can Cork-Dublin non-stop be done in 2h yes, can it ben done in 2 hours during peak periods not reliably so 2h05-2h10m is reasonable. Its been discussed before the 2h15m (now 2h19m) is like this because IE taught they could just slot the service and screw other services. That didn't work and its ran over 2h15m late almost every single day so they added a few more minutes to make it on time.

From day one it was un acceptable to arrive in Heuston at 08.25, 08.35 or 08.40. It had to be 08.30 but they had to admit defeat. I am sure when there is a full shake up of the timetable in future they will force the 08.30 arrival again and make sure it works but other services will suffer.

There is no reason the 07.00/09.00 etc and every second train after isn't 2h20m while the 08.00/10.00 have a block time of 2h25-30m.

The current timetable is shocking, great for the poster printers of on time performance but I think its the worst timetabling casting in years by so called experts.

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330963#Comment_118330963

Tell me a target Irish Rail have ever achieved, they promise a lot but rarely deliver or if they do its short term delivery before adding time back because they cannot produce a workable timetable.

Economics101

Some questions on the new DART+ order:

Does the 80km range imply that a journey on batteries can only be for <40kms each way assuming no charging at the turn-around point?

Assuming charging is necessary, how long will it take? Remember existing trains can be turned around in under 10 minutes if necessary.

Why 5-car trains? Existing platforms can take 8 suburban or DART cars. However the Alsthom document refers to 83m-long trains, which implies very short cars (c 16m). Of course in this case 2 five-car units would fit existing platforms.

Are the sets articulated? This makes for much reduced weight and less maintenance on bogies. Of course it makes any deletion or addition of cars a much more difficult operation.

Finally, back to range: given the low rolling resistance of railway rolling stock, 80km looks quite short (some cars can do I would have thought that there would be much bigger improvement since the days of the Drumm battery trains of nearly a century ago.