Irish rail fleet and infrastructure plans

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757552#Comment_119757552

Should be doable. a surprising number or locomotives and EMUs are multi-voltage capable, including the ICE 3 trainsets operating into the Netherlands from Germany, who have to switch from 15KV on the German network to 1.5KV on the Dutch network. Swiss railways have to deal with similar issues when operating into France or Italy, including with regional or suburban type trainsets.

SeanW

If they're going down this route of sort of sometime partially electrifying the Dublin-Belfast line with caveats, then it strikes me that continuing to divide the service with locomotives and carriage sets (with a DVT) would be ideal. A good start might be to acquire a replacement for the 201 class locomotive that can use both diesel and draw from the DART (1.5 kv DC) OHLE for start, then if it later turns out that the Northern Ireland rail network is to be electrified with 25kv AC but with gaps for tunnels, bridges etc, then the DVT could be replaced with an AC powered locomotive that includes batteries or something.

dublinman1990

What types of locomotives are currently suitable to carry out that purpose for the Enterprise? Do NIR & IE have a fair idea as to what type of new locomotive they can order for that purpose when it's used on an Irish rail guage.

I would have some confidence to say that type of technology is available for rail lines right across Central Europe as lot of them are equipped with OHLE for locomotives to carry out passenger and freight runs.

Economics101

25kv AV electrification with gaps (for bridges, tunnels)? What a laughing stock Translink or IE would be if they went for this nonsense, They might save on the fixed OHLE but what about the cost and complexity of having hybrid stock? Dual voltage electric traction is no problem, perfectly routine in Europe and totally proven technology.

Does anyone in Ireland ever go to the Continent and see how things should be done?

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119825883#Comment_119825883

My reading is NIR have no intention of electrifying Newry-border and like today keep the line just about functional at minimun cost. IE would probally go north of Dundalk but maybe not the full way to border.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119773059#Comment_119773059

Can't see locomotive been considered all, various commentarty on the route have all referecned multiple units.

Pete_Cavan

IÉ have issued a tender for passenger seat replacement for 2600 & 29000 DMU Fleets;x

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/228747/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

loyatemu

they need to do the floors on the 29ks as well.

end of the road

and a hell of a lot more to boot.

they need a complete refurbishment at this stage they are almost clapped out.

loyatemu

yeah, I sort of assumed they'd be scrapped as new stock gets delivered, they're wrecked. Surprised to hear about this tender so...

end of the road

wouldn't surprise me if they do get scrapped but to be honest it would be stupid as chances are they could be refurbished reasonably enough.

if they are i can guarantee just like last time the new stock won't be enough to replace what was scrapped and deliver the necessary increased services and capacity.

Barna77

About time!

Pete_Cavan

Presumably there won't ever be orders of new DMUs again (EMU/BEMU only), and a large part of the network will remain non-electrified and beyond battery range. Could they are looking to flog the DMUs for as long as physically possible because they know they won't have any other options?

loyatemu

I'd have thought they're due a full mid life refurb at this stage; if they're only doing the seats that would suggest they're not planning to keep them running for 35-40 years.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119920273#Comment_119920273

They've had a hard life, mainly due to there being insufficient stock to cover for them. IE probably couldn't take them out of service for a midlife refurb even if they wanted to, at least not until the DART is extended to Drogheda.

p_haugh

According to Rail Users Ireland on twitter, there's been an additional order of 90 DART carriages ordered to replace the original fleet...

https://twitter.com/RailUsersIe/status/1597477175367962624?t=v9k2oMizI7F8EBt7iyeyRw&s=19

loyatemu

I wonder if there's any potential for preserving one of the 8100 sets?

Pete_Cavan

From Barry Kenny's comments in the IT article, it looks like the new carriages won't replace any/many existing DART carriages but are for the Northern commuter route to Drogheda and required for Dart+.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119934424#Comment_119934424

that was in relation to the original order of 95 carriages. An extra 90 has now been announced, it seems likely the LHB Darts will be retired as those come on stream. As RUI points out, those original units are becoming very unreliable.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119920273#Comment_119920273

Are you referring to the original LHB Dart units?. If so, these were all taken to Germany a few years ago for a very extensive mid-life refurbishment.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935198#Comment_119935198

They're referring to the 29000 DMUs, that's what is getting new seats (along with the 2600) and had further discussion of the significant corrosion problems they are showing (floors bubbling up etc).

The LHB DART units were taken to Germany nearly two decades ago for a mid-life refurbishment and are now exceptionally close to their official end of life date. Time marches on terrifyingly!

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119934199#Comment_119934199

So update on this tweet, the additional order has been made official. Interesting to note some of the order is intended for use in Cork.

https://twitter.com/EamonRyan/status/1597581645468549123?t=bjM_ndVcwibD3v3JXKuV2A&s=19

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935742#Comment_119935742

I don't get the Cork angle here. They are not going to Cork as there is no electrification plan medium term.

Pick a non Dublin area and get some positive press!

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119936324#Comment_119936324

I believe the press release clarifies it further, the BEMUs could potentially be used in the short term on the cork network, which would require significantly less infastructure compared to fully electrifying the network.

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119936324#Comment_119936324

Yes there is, I'm pretty sure they are electrifying Cork's railways in the medium term. Like by 2030.

thejuggler

There has been coverage in Cork local media of this announcement. Talk of adding new stations on existing commuter lines. This has been discussed for around 30 years so nobody here is holding their breath until they materialise. Biggest problem I can see is that Kent station is not central enough in the city to make commuting by rail an attractive prospect.

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119937810#Comment_119937810

Had a look at the release and it confirms they are for Dublin and will eventually be handed down to Cork just like the 2900s which makes prefect sense.

Jim Meade's comment sums it up

"The funding for 90 additional battery-electric carriages for DART+ is hugely welcome, as it will enable us to bring capacity and emission benefits to current and future commuters in advance of electrification. Additionally, the benefits will be felt nationwide, as existing Intercity and Commuter carriages operating in the Greater Dublin Area are freed up for use around the national network for more frequent services and more capacity on a range of routes.”

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/b0ca8-minister-ryan-announces-major-expansion-of-irish-rail-fleet/

Just googling it there the original DARTs are coming up on 40 years old. They’re actually older than some of the MK3 orange intercity trains that were scrapped by 2009.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119937895#Comment_119937895

Properly maintained EMUs should have a long life, especially with mid-life upgrades. Europe has loads of examples of this.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119938383#Comment_119938383

~45 on retirement is pretty normal, particularly for lighter weight models (the LHB units are pretty much just 1600mm Amsterdam Metro M1 cars I believe). That these have spent their entire life by the sea won't have helped either.

You do get Isle of Wight things of 80+ year old kit but that is the outlier not the norm!

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119934729#Comment_119934729

What I couldn't understand was why they would oder BEMUs to replace DART carriages. If replacing existing DART on already electrified lines, why not order EMUs instead? The initial order is for six five-car EMUs and thirteen five-car BEMUs, so the facility for EMUs is there and they would presumably be cheaper (no batteries).

I think RUI are wrongly speculating that they are to replace existing DART carriages, also while seemingly patting themselves on the back for a story they helped "expose".