To all the hard working Migrants on Xmas Day - thank you

Lefty Bicek

sk8erboii wrote: »

Whoa. Its almost as if politcians arent really sociologist or anything..

They have a lot to answer for, nonetheless.

Wibbs

sk8erboii wrote: »

Cultural exchange is a type of multiculturalism.

Indeed, but you said multiculturalism is good overall without first defining your terms.

The proper sociological term is ‘Cultural pluralism’

Well.. kinda. And one of the big issues with multiculturalism inEurope over the last few decades is that the problems come from it not being pluralistic, though as a sociopolitical aim I'd rate it far higher than the usual "multiculturalist" cultural equivalence stuff we're being fed.

sk8erboii wrote: »

Whoa. Its almost as if politcians arent really sociologist or anything..

Sociology while an interesting subject is quite the "soft science", where depending on whichever politic or strain within same one reads, different conclusions based on the same stats are regularly trotted out. And used for political ends in the wider world. Certainly at the dumbed down level. Though that's an issue for many sciences hard and soft.

cajonlardo

We've got good people in our Defense Forces working today in some of the troubled countries these migrants have fled. Safe home to all of them.

Cultural exchange is the default setting in Earth's options menu, and as such, it is just taken as a given. It's been happening for millennia.
Multiculturalism today is generally used to refer to forced or unnatural flows of people, resulting in a lack of assimilation.

Africa is a decent but extreme example of the difference between cultural exchange, and multiculturalism in the way we use the word today. Pre-Europe's arrival, natural flows created territories with natural borders between peoples. The arbitrary lines drawn up by Europe resulted in an unnatural "flow" of people where one country had many of these peoples.


To argue that all multiculturalism is good, because natural flows bring good, is to ignore the negatives. Just like the those lines in Africa have been causing major problems since they were drawn, modern ghettoisation in cities around Europe will too always exist.

If it was always good, African countries, and Myanmar etc. would live in harmony by now, cultures entwined. India wouldn't have split resulting in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

dr.fuzzenstein

rgodard80a wrote: »

Some guy was nailed to a cross for saying stuff like that.

He must have posted it on AH.

sk8erboii

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Cultural exchange is the default setting in Earth's options menu, and as such, it is just taken as a given. It's been happening for millennia.
Multiculturalism today is generally used to refer to forced or unnatural flows of people, resulting in a lack of assimilation.

Africa is a decent but extreme example of the difference between cultural exchange, and multiculturalism in the way we use the word today. Pre-Europe's arrival, natural flows created territories with natural borders between peoples. The arbitrary lines drawn up by Europe resulted in an unnatural "flow" of people where one country had many of these peoples.


To argue that all multiculturalism is good, because natural flows bring good, is to ignore the negatives. Just like the those lines in Africa have been causing major problems since they were drawn, modern ghettoisation in cities around Europe will too always exist.

If it was always good, African countries, and Myanmar etc. would live in harmony by now, cultures entwined. India wouldn't have split resulting in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

‘Its good. Except when its bad’

Ok

Try_harder

Try_harder wrote: »

Im greatful to all those working today, but a sizeable amount will be migrants
- who contribute far more to the Irish Economy that take out- but you wouldnt thing that from AH boards of late.

What about the non working migrants that take more than they give?

dr.fuzzenstein

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What about the non working migrants that take more than they give?

Yeah, damn those Poles. Or are you referring to brown people? Yeah, ugh, can't be having that in this lovely white, Christian country, sullying the bloodline and taking our jerbs.
What about Ireland's own "leisure class"?
What about sunrise? What about rain? What about all the things that you said we were to gain?

Gimme A Pound

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Yeah, damn those Poles. Or are you referring to brown people? Yeah, ugh, can't be having that in this lovely white, Christian country, sullying the bloodline and taking our jerbs.

You do tend to put words in people's mouths.

dr.fuzzenstein

Magnolia Jealous Paint wrote: »

You do tend to put words in people's mouths.

It is a fact that any thread mentioning migrants on AH turns into an utter cesspool of racism, ignorance, xenophobia and hate.
And 99% of the time a certain religion and Northern Africa and Middle East is the target of the bile.
There is a hateful element present especially on AH that, thankfully, usually gets a swift ban on the more serious and substantial forums.
Of course the OP was probably posted to elicit such a reaction, but the usual suspects weren't long biting.
I've worked with enough guys from ME and Africa not to fall for the hate and lies and you would be amazed how often Okan from the local Döner restaurant hasn't tried to Jihad me, even Batim and Ilyas who went to school with me haven't murdered me yet.
There absolutely is a certain element trying very, very hard to spread fear and hate of certain groups of foreigners. Of course there are murdering bastards in all walks of life, it would be idiotic to say otherwise. There are violent asshole Buddhists and certainly violent asshole westerners (My Word!), so of course there are murdering asshole foreigners.
The solution is not to fear and hate them all.

sk8erboii

sk8erboii wrote: »

Is there an Irish television brand?

Trading goods is not multiculturalism

Going back to the original post and twitter linked in it https://twitter.com/mccallion_naomi/status/1077521439790678016?s=21

We have an issue with Irish doctors and nurses leaving the country because they complain the pay and conditions are not good enough.
So we have what migrants picking up the slack, the image in the twitter feed is of a medical crew at what looks like a hospital (says Rotunda).

Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe if we paid the doctors and nurses more and hired more improving their conditions then we wouldnt have the issue of losing the people we trained in the first place. Also some poor countries wouldnt lose their trained medical staff to a richer country.

sk8erboii

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Trading goods is not multiculturalism

Going back to the original post and twitter linked in it https://twitter.com/mccallion_naomi/status/1077521439790678016?s=21

We have an issue with Irish doctors and nurses leaving the country because they complain the pay and conditions are not good enough.
So we have what migrants picking up the slack, the image in the twitter feed is of a medical crew at what looks like a hospital (says Rotunda).

Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe if we paid the doctors and nurses more and hired more improving their conditions then we wouldnt have the issue of losing the people we trained in the first place. Also some poor countries wouldnt lose their trained medical staff to a richer country.

Mate you do know if it werent for foreign cultural imports (economic modes, language, industrial policies) ireland would be a backwater satellite state?

Infact if it werent for multinational influence, the only export Ireland would have is its own people.

Lefty Bicek

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It is a fact that any thread mentioning migrants on AH turns into an utter cesspool of racism, ignorance, xenophobia and hate.
And 99% of the time a certain religion and Northern Africa and Middle East is the target of the bile.
There is a hateful element present especially on AH that, thankfully, usually gets a swift ban on the more serious and substantial forums.
Of course the OP was probably posted to elicit such a reaction, but the usual suspects weren't long biting.
I've worked with enough guys from ME and Africa not to fall for the hate and lies and you would be amazed how often Okan from the local Döner restaurant hasn't tried to Jihad me, even Batim and Ilyas who went to school with me haven't murdered me yet.
There absolutely is a certain element trying very, very hard to spread fear and hate of certain groups of foreigners. Of course there are murdering bastards in all walks of life, it would be idiotic to say otherwise. There are violent asshole Buddhists and certainly violent asshole westerners (My Word!), so of course there are murdering asshole foreigners.
The solution is not to fear and hate them all.

Neither is the solution in your puny 'can't we all just get along' attitude.

People like you think you're the only ones on first name terms with Hassan the Kebab Van Man.

You condescend towards everyone.

nthclare

The problem with Ireland, is Leo vodker and coke, never thought about employing people and putting them in job's where they have security.

A lot of the semistates are giving redundancies, getting rid of people who are on the old contracts.
Therefore bringing in people on 2 or 3 year contracts especially manager's, so then they work the three year's, then it's optional to come back and do another 3 year's...and so on....

In some semistates, the cleaners are on way more money than the new manager's, anyone on an incremental scale could be on really good money.

The gubbernent is trying to squash anyone's opportunity to get a full time job and work their way up the scale.

Therefore they're pissing in the wind, because if nobody has a full time job then they can't buy house's, so eventually a lot of people will be living on the edge constantly...

Renting off Vodker and coke's buddies at exorbitant rents prices..


Win win for the elite.....

Lefty Bicek

Before the thread goes any further, it should be required that people define their terms.

Otherwise, the uninformed are liable to continue to conflate multicultural with multinational.



So - define multiculturalism...

sk8erboii

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Before the thread goes any further, it should be required that people define their terms.

Otherwise, the uninformed are liable to continue to conflate multicultural with multinational.



So - define multiculturalism...

Agreed. The usual suspects use ‘multiculturalism’ when they actually mean brown people.

I use the correct term

Kivaro

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It is a fact that any thread mentioning migrants on AH turns into an utter cesspool of racism, ignorance, xenophobia and hate.
........

No they don't, but that doesn't stop the likes of you claiming racism and xenophobia ad nauseum at every opportunity.
The hate is coming from you and the usual suspects on here.

You absolutely hate the fact that there is somewhere on the Internet where a impartial discussion on open border economic migration into Ireland can actually take place. You absolutely hate it when some people ask if the resources (hospital beds, GP access, mental services, housing, school places, basic infrastructure) are in place in Ireland to take in such a large number of non-EU economic migrants that are arriving into the country. We cannot ask logical, sensible questions like that in mainstream Irish because they scream the same insults as you.
You hate that we can ask those questions on here.

sk8erboii

Kivaro wrote: »

No they don't, but that doesn't stop the likes of you claiming racism and xenophobia ad nauseum at every opportunity.
The hate is coming from you and the usual suspects on here.

You absolutely hate the fact that there is somewhere on the Internet where a impartial discussion on open border economic migration into Ireland can actually take place. You absolutely hate it when some people ask if the resources (hospital beds, GP access, mental services, housing, school places, basic infrastructure) are in place in Ireland to take in such a large number of non-EU economic migrants that are arriving into the country. We cannot ask logical, sensible questions like that in mainstream Irish because they scream the same insults as you.
You hate that we can ask those questions on here.

Yikes.

‘Wtf? Cant you see we want open discussion here. Now stop talking because you dont agree with me!’

Mate we ARE having open discussion right now.

Gimme A Pound

nthclare wrote: »

The problem with Ireland, is Leo vodker and coke, never thought about employing people and putting them in job's where they have security.

A lot of the semistates are giving redundancies, getting rid of people who are on the old contracts.
Therefore bringing in people on 2 or 3 year contracts especially manager's, so then they work the three year's, then it's optional to come back and do another 3 year's...and so on....

In some semistates, the cleaners are on way more money than the new manager's, anyone on an incremental scale could be on really good money.

The gubbernent is trying to squash anyone's opportunity to get a full time job and work their way up the scale.

Therefore they're pissing in the wind, because if nobody has a full time job then they can't buy house's, so eventually a lot of people will be living on the edge constantly...

Renting off Vodker and coke's buddies at exorbitant rents prices..


Win win for the elite.....

Ah now, there is also constant whinging about the public sector/civil service. Can't win.

Varadkar is as centrist a politician as they come. The only evidence you need is the simultaneous allegations of thatcherite and leftist being flung at him.

Wibbs

sk8erboii wrote: »

Agreed. The usual suspects use ‘multiculturalism’ when they actually mean brown people.

I use the correct term

Odd that your version of multiculturalism you posted earlier was almost exclusively European in origin, which would be those pale people.

sk8erboii

Wibbs wrote: »

Odd that your version of multiculturalism you posted earlier was almost exclusively European in origin, which would be those pale people.

? I explicitly stated ANY beneficial multicultural influences.


If you ever liked a rock song congrats you Just appreciated afro-carribean beats. Or ever liked Star wars? Yeah spielberg aped kurosawa. Yoga? Fireworks? Christianity? All brown/asian

Lefty Bicek

sk8erboii wrote: »

Agreed. The usual suspects use ‘multiculturalism’ when they actually mean brown people.

I use the correct term

I suspect that you don't.

So to avoid doubt, please define the term.

FTA69

Depends what we mean by multiculturalism doesn’t it? I mean multiculturalism in London broadly works, despite all the bullsh*t horror stories and alarmism. My area has everybody and anybody living here, we all get on - if we didn’t there’d be constant bloodshed in the streets, the Tube and workplaces. The vast majority of people from different backgrounds get on and coexist with little real problems. Often those who rant and rave about how terrible it is come from areas that are overwhelmingly homogenous and have few if any foreigners.

That having been said, multiculturalism as a policy needs to be examined. If it’s just a case of different people living together and accepting each other then happy days. However if it’s the idea that anybody and everybody can come to the UK for instance and do whatever they like whenever they like is a recipe for disaster. We need to have a binding civic and secular identity as well that people should subscribe to. People living 25 years in London and not having a word of English isn’t a good thing. Weird insular faith schools aren’t positive. Alternative legal practices etc shouldn’t be tolerated.

The idea of multiculturalism should be to foster inclusivity regardless of background, not accelerate and exacerbate division and accommodate some frankly regressive practices.

Omackeral

sk8erboii wrote: »

If you ever liked a rock song congrats you Just appreciated afro-carribean beats. Or ever liked Star wars? Yeah spielberg aped kurosawa. Yoga? Fireworks? Christianity? All brown/asian

It's kinda like if you posted this absolute pugwash it suggests you've an affinity for the culture of American high school teens. OMG!

sk8erboii wrote: »

My emotions are high right now

After acting rehearsals i was in a studio with an attractive blonde classmate and shes teasing me being sexy, just goofin around, we’re acting out a scene. Shes got her bare midriff out and ugh i wanted it but shes outta my league. She says ‘do u know a lot of girls keep pictures of themselves when they were fat? Why do you think that is?’

‘To motivate them?’

Then she came up to me and made out.

‘There. If you can get a girl like me you can get anyone’

Then her boyfriend arrived and they drove off

I get what shes trying to do, like im pretty much the class wallflower but man im not prepared for that and now i feel anxious

sk8erboii

Omackeral wrote: »

It's kinda like if you posted this absolute pugwash it suggests you've an affinity for the culture of American high school teens. OMG!

Imagine going through someones post history to dig up a joke thread that has nothing to do with the thesis.

Strawmanchild.

Omackeral

sk8erboii wrote: »

Imagine going through someones post history to dig up a joke thread that has nothing to do with the thesis.

Strawmanchild.

It was a a few days ago. I commented on the thread so it's fresh in my mind. Didn't dig up anything. It's not your first rodeo around here anyway cowboy, you always come back and make a holy show of yourself.

sk8erboii

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I suspect that you don't.

So to avoid doubt, please define the term.

Its an umbrella term. The one ‘’conservatives’ here are referring to is immigration, meanwhile it can also mean modes of economy, political ideology, languages, pluralism, religion, syncretism, commerce, technology etc etc etc.

In other words, its the default state of humanity. To say that its bad while speaking the english language, while wearing a bangladeshi t shirt then drinking heineken with the lads is why im pointing out the myopic view of the people here. Ireland would be clans picking off gourds from Blathnaids farm like that isolated tribe in madagascar if it werent for cultural exchange

Lefty Bicek

FTA69 wrote: »

Depends what we mean by multiculturalism doesn’t it? I mean multiculturalism in London broadly works, despite all the bullsh*t horror stories and alarmism. My area has everybody and anybody living here, we all get on - if we didn’t there’d be constant bloodshed in the streets, the Tube and workplaces. The vast majority of people from different backgrounds get on and coexist with little real problems. Often those who rant and rave about how terrible it is come from areas that are overwhelmingly homogenous and have few if any foreigners.

That having been said, multiculturalism as a policy needs to be examined. If it’s just a case of different people living together and accepting each other then happy days. However if it’s the idea that anybody and everybody can come to the UK for instance and do whatever they like whenever they like is a recipe for disaster. We need to have a binding civic and secular identity as well that people should subscribe to. People living 25 years in London and not having a word of English isn’t a good thing. Weird insular faith schools aren’t positive. Alternative legal practices etc shouldn’t be tolerated.

The idea of multiculturalism should be to foster inclusivity regardless of background, not accelerate and exacerbate division and accommodate some frankly regressive practices.

Multiculturalism is not necessary for fostering inclusivity.

Experience tells that it has done the opposite.

sk8erboii

Omackeral wrote: »

It was a a few days ago. I commented on the thread so it's fresh in my mind. Didn't dig up anything. It's not your first rodeo around here anyway cowboy, you always come back and make a holy show of yourself.

Yeah mate its so fresh you memorized and quoted all of it.

Omackeral

I actually have gone back through your posts for the giggles and you are indeed a scholar. I retract my precious statements such is the profundity of your viewpoints.

sk8erboii wrote: »

? Why are you mad that young people are eating ass?

sk8erboii wrote: »

Eating ass is really a gen Z thing. Instagram and girls/guys magazines are printing about it.

I feel like the old lads here just feel left out

Deep.

So to speak.