Dublin’s traffic it’s a two part problem.

Eric Cartman

magicbastarder wrote: »

he wanted his half acre of lawn so he could pootle about on it on a ride on lawnmower.
a vehicle second only to the car in desirability for many irish people.

Is there any better way to spend a sunny saturday than mowing your half acre, beer in hand on a john deere ride-on, I certainly cant think of one.

Twenty Grand

magicbastarder wrote: »

he wanted his half acre of lawn so he could pootle about on it on a ride on lawnmower.
a vehicle second only to the car in desirability for many irish people.

That b*stard and his desire for a nice garden and to not have neighbours peering over his wall in some soulless estate, and for his kids to have space to ride their bikes and build a treehouse.

Why is it a binary thing? Why can't I live 10 miles outside the M50 and have access to decent public transport?
Why is it either that I live in a overpriced shoebox, or suffer through a long commute?

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I will always live in a detached house near a suburban village, will always need to get to the city to earn money and unless a private bus company sets up a bus stop right outside my door and brings me right to my office door with less than 5 other stops and a complete ban on children, being on the phone, junkies, smelly people and they bring back smoking and have effective air conditioning I think you'll find ill homd out on the car

I think we're starting to get to the nub of the issue.


Some of these people are clearly making a lifestyle choice, and expecting to impose the related costs of supporting this lifestyle on society at large.

Eric Cartman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I think we're starting to get to the nub of the issue.


Some of these people are clearly making a lifestyle choice, and expecting to impose the related costs of supporting this lifestyle on society at large.

Sure the amount of tax on a car, fuel and cigarettes, im more than paying my way.

tom1ie

Twenty Grand wrote: »

That b*stard and his desire for a nice garden and to not have neighbours peering over his wall in some soulless estate, and for his kids to have space to ride their bikes and build a treehouse.

Why is it a binary thing? Why can't I live 10 miles outside the M50 and have access to decent public transport?
Why is it either that I live in a overpriced shoebox, or suffer through a long commute?

So you think everyone living miles outside the m50 are entitled to pt direct to there workplace?
Sorry pal that’s just not gonna happen.
Pt works because of population density.

P_1

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Sure the amount of tax on a car, fuel and cigarettes, im more than paying my way.

Plus you'll pop your clogs sooner too. Nice saving to the taxpayer giving up your pension like that

magicbastarder

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Is there any better way to spend a sunny saturday than mowing your half acre, beer in hand on a john deere ride-on, I certainly cant think of one.

lawn is boring. plant trees!

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Sure the amount of tax on a car, fuel and cigarettes, im more than paying my way.

Not by a long way on the motoring side anyway


https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/cars-air-pollution-cost-nhs-vans-vehicles-health-bills-lung-disease-a8384806.html

Twenty Grand

tom1ie wrote: »

So you think everyone living miles outside the m50 are entitled to pt direct to there workplace?
Sorry pal that’s just not gonna happen.
Pt works because of population density.

Why not? It's been done in plenty of other cities around the world.

Why should people need to conform to sh*te services instead of pushing for better ones?

cgcsb

Eric Cartman wrote: »

why not make a good service so those not as dedicated switch

That's the plan

cgcsb

RayCun wrote: »

Probably not worth pointing it out since some people will never be satisfied, but the luas extension has just finished, metro link is in planning, as is bus connects, and so on and on. Public transport options are _constantly_ improving.
And the number of people switching from cars to public transport (and bikes) is also constantly increasing.
So the whole "we are forced to drive! Forced, I tell you!" thing is not convincing.

Exactly 30,000 motorists are 'forced' to drive from Lucan while avoiding the city's best bus corridor. A financial penalty might change that record somewhat.

cgcsb

L1011 wrote: »

See, some people won't change mode no matter what the carrot is. When there's sufficient capacity (the main issue now), the stick will be used. The carpark tax returning will be first I imagine

I think the NTA supports this idea over congestion charging. Essentially you tax companies that offer employee parking by the number of spaces they offer within the canals, or perhaps some other geographic area that includes Ballsbridge.

cgcsb

Patww79 wrote: »

I'd love to see some or all of them but there's also as many, or more, just want car drivers publicly flogged for the simple reason that they're right and everyone should do what they want regardless of whether it'll actually work or not.

Believe that if u want, having a persecution complex is often an excuse for behaviours you know to be counter productive.

Twenty Grand

cgcsb wrote: »

Exactly 30,000 motorists are 'forced' to drive from Lucan while avoiding the city's best bus corridor. A financial penalty might change that record somewhat.

Hows about instead of penalising them,you try to understand why 30 THOUSAND plus people choose cars over public transport, then work to make the system more appealing?

Hmm?

Any takers?

cgcsb wrote: »

Believe that if u want, having a persecution complex is often an excuse for behaviours you know to be counter productive.

Or is "Tax de drivers!!" the height of your problem solving ability? I'd love to see the total collapse of Dublin Bus if 30k extra people tried to use it over the next year.

Also, explain how driving is counter productive? In terms of speed, convenience and comfort, its by far the best choice for me and many others. Sure it may be more expensive, but the benefits far outweigh the costs.

cgcsb

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Hows about instead of penalising them,you try to understand why 30 THOUSAND plus people choose cars over public transport, then work to make the system more appealing?

Well funny you should say, being a transport engineer and currently doing some research into commuter behaviour. Turns out psychology is a much bigger factor than previously thought. All sorts of factors are at play. Not just fares and tolls but modal choice is affected by some really complicated factors including psyco-sexual issues and the cultural remnants of the British colonial cast system.

Regardless of the causes though, research shows carrot and stick is the best way to achieve change and this can modelled by simple mathematics.

Twenty Grand

Brilliant! So we have you to blame for the current system.

Bit more carrot, little less stick please.

TommyGun2017

Car pooling is a good compromise. Share the cost with others going to the same general area and alternate who does the driving. The amount of vehicles you see in and around Dublin with just one person in the car is unreal. Might clear up the roads a bit

cgcsb

TommyGun2017 wrote: »

Car pooling is a good compromise. Share the cost with others going to the same general area and alternate who does the driving. The amount of vehicles you see in and around Dublin with just one person in the car is unreal. Might clear up the roads a bit

There have been studies on same but it's one of those things that is just terminally American. Turns out it's not too workable here for a variety of reasons that I can summarize in a post tomorrow if u wish.

L1011

the_syco wrote: »

In the last few months, the amount of carriages on the Maynooth line have been reduced, to encourage more people to use the train

This has not happened.

the_syco wrote: »

aynooth train station has SFA parking spaces.

80 something in planning or construction. Its in a town centre, leixlip Louisa is the PnR.

the_syco wrote: »

more frequent service is needed.

Happened last week

ELM327

tom1ie wrote: »

Just wondering, but why? If it was cheaper, quicker and better for the environment why wouldn’t you use pt?

Cheaper , perhaps in terms of financial cost but not mental health cost.
Quicker, but again don't want to be sitting beside smelly people (or anyone)
Better for the environment, not my problem. Anyway I drive an EV so I am already doing my bit there.

ELM327

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Is there any better way to spend a sunny saturday than mowing your half acre, beer in hand on a john deere ride-on, I certainly cant think of one.

Certainly better than listening to your next door neighbours arguing about marital relations. Like in a cardboard 3 bed terraced "house" in the city!!

cgcsb wrote: »

Well funny you should say, being a transport engineer and currently doing some research into commuter behaviour. Turns out psychology is a much bigger factor than previously thought. All sorts of factors are at play. Not just fares and tolls but modal choice is affected by some really complicated factors including psyco-sexual issues and the cultural remnants of the British colonial cast system.

Regardless of the causes though, research shows carrot and stick is the best way to achieve change and this can modelled by simple mathematics.

lol wut.


This post is unexpected. I like to drive to work because I am sexually maladjusted? Best tell herself so.:p

RayCun

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Why is it a binary thing? Why can't I live 10 miles outside the M50 and have access to decent public transport?

Because that's not what you want.
You want to live 10 miles outside the M50
In a detached house with a big garden
And you want to be able to drive to your public transport connection, and have free, but supervised, parking there
:rolleyes:


There are tens of thousands of people who live outside the M50 but within walking distance of decent public transport - but transport connections mean denser development. Train station and major bus stops are found in towns, not somewhere with a dozen houses in a mile radius.

And if you put a big car park beside a country train station, you are reducing density, making the station less accessible to walkers, making people more likely to drive there, and then complain that there aren't enough parking spaces. (and complain that there is no security in the free car park, but also the train ticket is too expensive :rolleyes:)
There are tens of thousands more people who are within a short (<5k) cycle of a decent public transport connection, but would rather drive and complain.

ELM327

RayCun wrote: »

There are tens of thousands more people who are within a short (<5k) cycle of a decent public transport connection, but would rather drive and complain.

To quote someone I rarely agree with but she's got this one nailed:

A man who, beyond the age of 26, finds himself on a bus can count himself as a failure.

Expecting people to cycle to public transport outposts to get to work is frankly risible. Why the hell would we go back to that?

RayCun

ELM327 wrote: »

To quote someone I rarely agree with but she's got this one nailed:



Expecting people to cycle to public transport outposts to get to work is frankly risible. Why the hell would we go back to that?

Yeah, quoting Thatcher is a good look...

Why would people cycle to a train station? (Oh, the humanity - cycling 10 minutes to a train station :eek: )

Because they chose to work in Dublin, and live outside Dublin, and don't want to live in a town so it is too far to walk to the station, and can't drive to the station because there isn't free, supervised parking for their car.

Or, sure, they could drive to work. But if they do, they should realize it is a result of their choices, not something they are forced into, and transport (and housing) policy can't, and shouldn't, be built around those choices.

Nermal

cgcsb wrote: »

Exactly 30,000 motorists are 'forced' to drive from Lucan while avoiding the city's best bus corridor. A financial penalty might change that record somewhat.

Do 30,000 people from Lucan really drive into the city centre? Or are you including ones who drive to the various industrial estates along the M50?

ELM327

RayCun wrote: »

Yeah, quoting Thatcher is a good look...

Why would people cycle to a train station? (Oh, the humanity - cycling 10 minutes to a train station :eek: )

Because they chose to work in Dublin, and live outside Dublin, and don't want to live in a town so it is too far to walk to the station, and can't drive to the station because there isn't free, supervised parking for their car.

Or, sure, they could drive to work. But if they do, they should realize it is a result of their choices, not something they are forced into, and transport (and housing) policy can't, and shouldn't, be built around those choices.

Or maybe, just maybe, we could just drive to work and the government could build some more roads and butt out!

AlmightyCushion

ELM327 wrote: »

Or maybe, just maybe, we could just drive to work and the government could build some more roads and butt out!

If even half the people who currently use the bus decided to drive to work as you suggest it would be pandemonium. The amount of roads that would need to be widened and new roads built to accommodate it would be insane. Improving public transport is a lot more cost effective and is actually realistic.

Eric Cartman

RayCun wrote: »

Yeah, quoting Thatcher is a good look...

Why would people cycle to a train station? (Oh, the humanity - cycling 10 minutes to a train station :eek: )

Because they chose to work in Dublin, and live outside Dublin, and don't want to live in a town so it is too far to walk to the station, and can't drive to the station because there isn't free, supervised parking for their car.

Or, sure, they could drive to work. But if they do, they should realize it is a result of their choices, not something they are forced into, and transport (and housing) policy can't, and shouldn't, be built around those choices.

Sure some posters think all the jobs should be in the city, because putting them in business parks in the suburbs is 'nightmarish' or 'soulless' , yet at the same time saying that nobody should be driving to the city , but then the others saying that park and rides lower density so shouldnt be a thing either, then we have you saying its peoples fault for not living within walking distance of public transport. But as weve seen public transport adjacency brings up housing prices.

Where are people who cant afford a house in the city or within a 5 minute walk of the train supposed to live and work and how are they supposed to get there if all the jobs are in the city and they live outside walking or even cycling distance of pt

RayCun

ELM327 wrote: »

Or maybe, just maybe, we could just drive to work and the government could build some more roads and butt out!

Build more roads and more people will drive and then the roads will be full and you'll want more roads and if they are built then...

It's a hole that can't be filled, it is senseless to try.

cgcsb

ELM327 wrote: »

lol wut.


This post is unexpected. I like to drive to work because I am sexually maladjusted? Best tell herself so.:p

yes(not you personally) but it is a factor in modal choice. The car as a status symbol and/or penis extension isn't actually a new discovery, people have sort of laughed about it before, but it is a real phenomenon. I have no doubt that it applies to some of the lads in Audis who think that they deserve to be able to drive through the 24hr bus gate on Bachelors walk.