Dublin’s traffic it’s a two part problem.

L1011

Cars are still mostly steel.

tom1ie

ELM327 wrote: »

Probably not much steel, cars are normally aluminium these days


To be honest if you'd like to debate this further there's a great EV forum on here, I don't want to detract further from the point here which is the impact on traffic.


To get back on topic somewhat, yes 80 people in a bus, regardless of propulsion method, can take up less space on the road of course than 80 cars. But you'll always have people that don't want to take the bus and will even pay a premium not to have to. If you're earning 70-100k you're not going to take a bus to work.

Lol! So it’s a class thing then!

AndrewJRenko

ELM327 wrote: »

If you're earning 70-100k you're not going to take a bus to work.

Bwaahaahaa Bwaahaahaa Bwaahaahaa

magicbastarder

i know people earning well in excess of that who take PT.

magicbastarder

random aside, that reminds me of a story once published in the irish times - a bank manager with one of the big banks wrote to him; he'd been given a company car (not that he particularly wanted it), but continued cycling to work. his wife used the car during the day, but it was spotted that she was using the car and he was not, and was given a dressing down and told 'we've provided this car to you, use it to get to work'.
they backed down when the IT contacted them, IIRC. but it was over 20 years ago, so my memory is fuzzy on some of the details.

FreudianSlippers

magicbastarder wrote: »

i know people earning well in excess of that who take PT.

I actually don't believe this. I can believe that these people may take the bus every now and then, I'd go so far as to say that they more frequently use the DART, but I don't know anyone earning in excess of €100k that frequently uses PT as a manner of commuting.

P_1

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I actually don't believe this. I can believe that these people may take the bus every now and then, I'd go so far as to say that they more frequently use the DART, but I don't know anyone earning in excess of €100k that frequently uses PT as a manner of commuting.

Depends on the industry I'd say.

Someone high up in the tech sector likely would, someone high up in the legal sector likely wouldn't

FreudianSlippers

P_1 wrote: »

Depends on the industry I'd say.

Someone high up in the tech sector likely would, someone high up in the legal sector likely wouldn't

Yeah fair enough, that's a good point. Most tech people that I would know earning over €100k live within walking distance of work/town though, so they wouldn't be using PT on a daily basis either.

P_1

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Yeah fair enough, that's a good point. Most tech people that I would know earning over €100k live within walking distance of work/town though, so they wouldn't be using PT on a daily basis either.

Would be interesting to see data from the last census that links employment sector and mode of transport taken to and from work

AndrewJRenko

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

magicbastarder wrote: »

i know people earning well in excess of that who take PT.

I actually don't believe this. I can believe that these people may take the bus every now and then, I'd go so far as to say that they more frequently use the DART, but I don't know anyone earning in excess of €100k that frequently uses PT as a manner of commuting.

The fact that you don't know such people does not mean that they don't exist.

They do exist. Here's one.

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/07/15/he-stole-summer/

P_1

magicbastarder wrote: »

random aside, that reminds me of a story once published in the irish times - a bank manager with one of the big banks wrote to him; he'd been given a company car (not that he particularly wanted it), but continued cycling to work. his wife used the car during the day, but it was spotted that she was using the car and he was not, and was given a dressing down and told 'we've provided this car to you, use it to get to work'.
they backed down when the IT contacted them, IIRC. but it was over 20 years ago, so my memory is fuzzy on some of the details.

I do wonder if some (particularly older) industries that generally seem to have an obsession about projecting a certain image would consider the fancy car to be part of the uniform so to say

OldMrBrennan83

P_1 wrote: »

I do wonder if some (particularly older) industries that generally seem to have an obsession about projecting a certain image would consider the fancy car to be part of the uniform so to say

I know some jobs that are insistent on giving people a car instead of a van to convey a certain image (and have the employee paying a huge amount more money).

magicbastarder

my father was a bank manager; he also was forced to take a company car (which he also resisted, but it was a bit more complicated as he was actually doing a lot of driving and getting good mileage expenses, which plummeted once a car was provided).
but IIRC (and this was over 20 years ago, so i'll have to check with him for details) a lot of other managers who weren't getting mileage were forced to take company cars, which many weren't happy about as the BIK wasn't worth the benefit.

for a good few years, he cycled into the city centre to his job, from D15 (before having to do the driving); i think he stopped after too many attempts to steal his bike, he had an early kryptonite lock and at one point after someone realised they couldn't break the lock, they squirted superglue into it.

L1011

My father was director / C level and took the train until retirement; our CEO in work takes the Luas. I use the train and I'd be at senior management level.

It's Thatcherite nonsense about not using PT - driving is so slow in cities that you are burning extremely valuable time at that pay scale doing it.

If I drive to work I lose a full hour a day versus the train - although I can't work on the train as I have to stand. It also costs approaching 500/month in tolls because it's another two hours a day gone to not use the tunnel - I wouldn't work for the equivalent salary of that cost to time ratio

Eric Cartman

Patww79 wrote: »

I know some jobs that are insistent on giving people a car instead of a van to convey a certain image (and have the employee paying a huge amount more money).

I think it goes the other way to, renting everything , scooters , cycling , go cars are all very much part of the image a lot of 'hip' tech companies etc.. want to project.

As much as people want to have a go at a 5 series being part of the uniform for a mid level sales exec , the expensive city apartment , 5 euro coffee, 12 euro sandwich and an expensive scooter / bike are very much part of it for a lot of these tech companies.

Youre more likely to find the latter person complaining about being broke, unable to afford a house etc.. plenty of tech employees in the 75-100k a year band without a cent of savings whos paycheck is being eaten by keeping a mediocre enough lifestyle on the go and the excess cost of everything in the city

P_1

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think it goes the other way to, renting everything , scooters , cycling , go cars are all very much part of the image a lot of 'hip' tech companies etc.. want to project.

As much as people want to have a go at a 5 series being part of the uniform for a mid level sales exec , the expensive city apartment , 5 euro coffee, 12 euro sandwich and an expensive scooter / bike are very much part of it for a lot of these tech companies.

Youre more likely to find the latter person complaining about being broke, unable to afford a house etc.. plenty of tech employees in the 75-100k a year band without a cent of savings whos paycheck is being eaten by keeping a mediocre enough lifestyle on the go and the excess cost of everything in the city

You're not wrong there tbh.

Being honest there are times when I'd crave just living in a shack on Achill. Seems a simpler life.

Working in town sometimes bringing in a packed lunch or bringing in, gasp, a mug and a jar of instant coffee is frowned on.

You are always going to get some mug wasting a grand on a flash singlespeed bike that really should have only cost a hundred or some tour de France wannabe doing their 7k commute on some carbon monstrosity that would crack at the slightest mention of a pothole too

AlmightyCushion

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think it goes the other way to, renting everything , scooters , cycling , go cars are all very much part of the image a lot of 'hip' tech companies etc.. want to project.

As much as people want to have a go at a 5 series being part of the uniform for a mid level sales exec , the expensive city apartment , 5 euro coffee, 12 euro sandwich and an expensive scooter / bike are very much part of it for a lot of these tech companies.

Youre more likely to find the latter person complaining about being broke, unable to afford a house etc.. plenty of tech employees in the 75-100k a year band without a cent of savings whos paycheck is being eaten by keeping a mediocre enough lifestyle on the go and the excess cost of everything in the city

I have a friend in a tech multi national here in Dublin and it's the exact opposite. They're not on 100k but they get free meals in work, breakfast, lunch and even dinner if you want. Health care is paid for by the company, free gym too. She doesn't have a bike or a scooter but even if she did she could get it on the bike to work scheme and get a good bike for a net cost of about 500 euro.

Eric Cartman

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I have a friend in a tech multi national here in Dublin and it's the exact opposite. They're not on 100k but they get free meals in work, breakfast, lunch and even dinner if you want. Health care is paid for by the company, free gym too. She doesn't have a bike or a scooter but even if she did she could get it on the bike to work scheme and get a good bike for a net cost of about 500 euro.

the free healthcare and gym is getting more and more common across all employers, the free food for the 5 days in work is certainly an advantage a small percentage of tech companies offer. The bike to work scheme is an option for most companies too.

The issue is not 'things you can do', but 'things people often do / feel they are expected to do' Like a lawyer or a salesman may be expected to hit up a bmw dealership when buying a car , people in tech companies often have peer pressure put on them to live around grand canal dock, drop 50 quid a week on brunch , buy a 1500 quid bike , eat at expensive restaurants (usually organic / vegan / some other gimmick ) on the weekends, drink in bars selling craft brews for 7 euro a go, get coffee for a 5er in places like 3fe , and then theres the keeping up with the social media game of going on really exotic holidays to india or south america etc... The pressure of trying to fit in in some tech companies can often be overwhelming and leave you living paycheck to paycheck trying to keep up. Also in the tech world head hunting and who you know and reffering talent by friends whove moved to other companies is often the way to get on in there.

sure 75k gross is about 4000 a month take home, the grand canal dock apartment alone will eat 1200-1500 of that if youre sharing and over half your sallary if youre living alone / paying a partners rent. 500 a week to spend in that city goes very very quickly when youre dependant on taxis for any kind of long distance, delivery drivers for most things , and the excess cost of everything . friday pints, saturday lunch, saturday dinner, saturday night out, sunday brunch and even 2 15 euro taxis a week would eat in excess of half of that guaranteed, and thats not an unusual cycle for people in those circles.

P_1

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the free healthcare and gym is getting more and more common across all employers, the free food for the 5 days in work is certainly an advantage a small percentage of tech companies offer. The bike to work scheme is an option for most companies too.

The issue is not 'things you can do', but 'things people often do / feel they are expected to do' Like a lawyer or a salesman may be expected to hit up a bmw dealership when buying a car , people in tech companies often have peer pressure put on them to live around grand canal dock, drop 50 quid a week on brunch , buy a 1500 quid bike , eat at expensive restaurants (usually organic / vegan / some other gimmick ) on the weekends, drink in bars selling craft brews for 7 euro a go, get coffee for a 5er in places like 3fe , and then theres the keeping up with the social media game of going on really exotic holidays to india or south america etc... The pressure of trying to fit in in some tech companies can often be overwhelming and leave you living paycheck to paycheck trying to keep up. Also in the tech world head hunting and who you know and reffering talent by friends whove moved to other companies is often the way to get on in there.

sure 75k gross is about 4000 a month take home, the grand canal dock apartment alone will eat 1200-1500 of that if youre sharing and over half your sallary if youre living alone / paying a partners rent. 500 a week to spend in that city goes very very quickly when youre dependant on taxis for any kind of long distance, delivery drivers for most things , and the excess cost of everything . friday pints, saturday lunch, saturday dinner, saturday night out, sunday brunch and even 2 15 euro taxis a week would eat in excess of half of that guaranteed, and thats not an unusual cycle for people in those circles.

Ecquine feaces

OldMrBrennan83

P_1 wrote: »

Ecquine feaces

Yeah it all only works the way you agree with. Truth.

P_1

Patww79 wrote: »

Yeah it all only works the way you agree with. Truth.

There is no expectation on you to live in grand canal dock. Who'd want to live there anyway, its boujie as fook.

There is no expectation on you to go for brunch

There is no expectation on you to drink craft beer at silly prices

There is no expectation on you to spend silly money on a bike

Next assumptions please gowls

Eric Cartman

P_1 wrote: »

There is no expectation on you to live in grand canal dock. Who'd want to live there anyway, its boujie as fook.

There is no expectation on you to go for brunch

There is no expectation on you to drink craft beer at silly prices

There is no expectation on you to spend silly money on a bike

Next assumptions please gowls

Thats the lifestyle many of these tech company hipsters lead. They might be a new generation but the same pressures that made our parents put porches on their 3 bed semi, change the car every year or join a golf club are still manifesting themselves in the same way in living this lifestyle.

I get the sense that you see yourself as some sort of 'defying convention' type, you might bike to work and live in the city which is 'boujie' as hell these days mate, but the rest of it isnt for you, however its the new standard for many. "who the hell wants to live in grand canal dock" , judging by apartment prices- fooking loads of people.

Shai

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats the lifestyle many of these tech company hipsters lead.

no, they don't. I have no idea where this is coming from. I know several dozens of people making >100k that take the train or bus to work (cause it's easier than trying to find parking), nor doing any of the other silly things that were mentioned as being part of the "tech hipster lifestyle".

P_1

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats the lifestyle many of these tech company hipsters lead. They might be a new generation but the same pressures that made our parents put porches on their 3 bed semi, change the car every year or join a golf club are still manifesting themselves in the same way in living this lifestyle.

I get the sense that you see yourself as some sort of 'defying convention' type, you might bike to work and live in the city which is 'boujie' as hell these days mate, but the rest of it isnt for you, however its the new standard for many. "who the hell wants to live in grand canal dock" , judging by apartment prices- fooking loads of people.

Oh really. Where are those tech company hipsters you speak of pal? I work in tech and not a single one of my friends who work in the same sector fit that stereotype you speak of

Twenty Grand

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats the lifestyle many of these tech company hipsters lead.

I work with a hundred tech hispters and this may only describe one or two, and we think he's an oddball.

RayCun

P_1 wrote: »

Oh really. Where are those tech company hipsters you speak of pal? I work in tech and not a single one of my friends who work in the same sector fit that stereotype you speak of

Yeah, it's bollocks.

Young, single people in good jobs tend to spend a higher proportion of their income, that has always been true. But pressure on people in tech companies to go for brunch? Clearly some people learn about tech companies through disapproving editorials in Farmers Journal.

Eric Cartman

RayCun wrote: »

Yeah, it's bollocks.

Young, single people in good jobs tend to spend a higher proportion of their income, that has always been true. But pressure on people in tech companies to go for brunch? Clearly some people learn about tech companies through disapproving editorials in Farmers Journal.

Ahh yeah, there isnt a 2 hour long queue outside herbstreet every sunday , grand canal dock apartment demands are low , fresh doesnt charge 20% more there than other convenience shops, all bollocks

P_1

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ahh yeah, there isnt a 2 hour long queue outside herbstreet every sunday , grand canal dock apartment demands are low , fresh doesnt charge 20% more there than other convenience shops, all bollocks

Last time I checked people don't tend to work on a Sunday if they're going to Herb Street for brunch. Maybe they might actually like the food there? Most apartments in Gcd are rentals, airbnbs or knocking shops.

Fresh is a pain in the hole to shop in

trellheim

I know millionaires that take Bus Eireann into work - thats their commute - , or take the train cos traffic in dublin is cat . One I know walks or cycles in. Why would you not - the amount of people in this city who have to be prised out of their motors is loony. Where the OH works all you hear from her team is the traffic ( she is the only one who doesnt drive ) but when asked 90% of them live in decent cycling distance

RayCun

And the idea that there is peer pressure to have such a cliched lifestyle...

Some people like to live in the city centre. Some people have expensive bikes (generally not the ones who live in the city). Some people like craft beer. Some people like eating out. Some people like to travel.

None of them care if you don't. Everyone is into different things.