Dublin’s traffic it’s a two part problem.

Eric Cartman

cgcsb wrote: »

So what do you want transport policy to be? the present one doesn't work.

Invest in the outer ring road to lighten the burden on the M50 , ease planning on commercial buildings surrounding that outer ring road to encourage working outside the city, increase building heights dramatically in the city , focus on elevated rail / non road based/interfering public transport, increase the number of loading bays to kerb vans obstructing traffic being on double yellows, commit to no further reduction of parking spaces in dublin.

Raisins

Eric Cartman wrote: »

cgcsb wrote: »

So what do you want transport policy to be? the present one doesn't work.

Invest in the outer ring road to lighten the burden on the M50 , ease planning on commercial buildings surrounding that outer ring road to encourage working outside the city, increase building heights dramatically in the city , focus on elevated rail / non road based/interfering public transport, increase the number of loading bays to kerb vans obstructing traffic being on double yellows, commit to no further reduction of parking spaces in dublin.

I’d hate to live in your vision of Dublin. Sounds horrendous.

cgcsb

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Invest in the outer ring road to lighten the burden on the M50 , ease planning on commercial buildings surrounding that outer ring road to encourage working outside the city, increase building heights dramatically in the city , focus on elevated rail / non road based/interfering public transport, increase the number of loading bays to kerb vans obstructing traffic being on double yellows, commit to no further reduction of parking spaces in dublin.

That'd result in an increase in car commuting.

P_1

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Invest in the outer ring road to lighten the burden on the M50 , ease planning on commercial buildings surrounding that outer ring road to encourage working outside the city, increase building heights dramatically in the city , focus on elevated rail / non road based/interfering public transport, increase the number of loading bays to kerb vans obstructing traffic being on double yellows, commit to no further reduction of parking spaces in dublin.

That sounds horrific. People don't want to work in soulless business parks on the outside of the city. They want to work in the city where you can go for a stroll during lunch, go grab lunch somewhere, go for a sneaky pint after work.

What you've described is basically an American hellhole where people live to work.

ELM327

I live in Meath and commute 70km each way to work in Dublin.
If public transport was free I would not take it. I'd have to get a Bus Eireann bus to the city centre, then a dublin bus from the city centre to work, doubling my commute time each way.

ELM327

P_1 wrote: »

That sounds horrific. People don't want to work in soulless business parks on the outside of the city. They want to work in the city where you can go for a stroll during lunch, go grab lunch somewhere, go for a sneaky pint after work.

What you've described is basically an American hellhole where people live to work.

Plenty of people work in that type of location now. Myself included.

The funny thing is that free enterprise will set up those businesses, (eg restaurants, gyms, pub etc) near the business parks.


Generally I get through 10000 steps a day mostly in walks around the area, in a park etc.

P_1

ELM327 wrote: »

Plenty of people work in that type of location now. Myself included.

The funny thing is that free enterprise will set up those businesses, (eg restaurants, gyms, pub etc) near the business parks.


Generally I get through 10000 steps a day mostly in walks around the area, in a park etc.

Guess I'm just an extreme urbanite in that case!

cgcsb

ELM327 wrote: »

I live in Meath and commute 70km each way to work in Dublin.
If public transport was free I would not take it. I'd have to get a Bus Eireann bus to the city centre, then a dublin bus from the city centre to work, doubling my commute time each way.

But with widescale car bans and bus priority your bus commute would shorten significantly.

cgcsb

Office development over time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMz_ZG6m5K8

ELM327

cgcsb wrote: »

But with widescale car bans and bus priority your bus commute would shorten significantly.

I have a 20 minute walk to the bus station, then a 1 hour bus journey to City Centre, then another unidentified walk to a bus stop to get a 45 minute bus to work.


70km on the motorway takes me less than 50 minutes usually.


There's a long way to go before they are time equal even excluding the cost of the hassle of public transport.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

cgcsb wrote: »

So what do you want transport policy to be? the present one doesn't work.

Invest in the outer ring road to lighten the burden on the M50 , ease planning on commercial buildings surrounding that outer ring road to encourage working outside the city, increase building heights dramatically in the city , focus on elevated rail / non road based/interfering public transport, increase the number of loading bays to kerb vans obstructing traffic being on double yellows, commit to no further reduction of parking spaces in dublin.

That's a brilliant transport policy, if you just put NOT () around it.

cgcsb

ELM327 wrote: »

I have a 20 minute walk to the bus station, then a 1 hour bus journey to City Centre, then another unidentified walk to a bus stop to get a 45 minute bus to work.


70km on the motorway takes me less than 50 minutes usually.


There's a long way to go before they are time equal even excluding the cost of the hassle of public transport.

Given that bus connects aims to roughly achieve centre to M50 bus journies of circa 30 minutes in peak times, I'd imagine the time will work out pretty well for buses.

OldMrBrennan83

P_1 wrote: »

That sounds horrific. People don't want to work in soulless business parks on the outside of the city. They want to work in the city where you can go for a stroll during lunch, go grab lunch somewhere, go for a sneaky pint after work.

What you've described is basically an American hellhole where people live to work.

Well that's one line of thinking that needs to go for a start. Let people go to work and go home, it's not a social day out and trying to mush people onto buses to cater for some idyllic movie version of a job is the furthest thing away from what needs to be done.

ELM327

cgcsb wrote: »

Given that bus connects aims to roughly achieve centre to M50 bus journies of circa 30 minutes in peak times, I'd imagine the time will work out pretty well for buses.

So that's the centre to M50 reduced from 45 mins to 30.
What about the 20 min walk, the 1 hour bus in, and the walk from the bus eireann bus to the dublin bus?

tom1ie

Twenty Grand wrote: »

This is the mentality you're dealing with.

Pay higher tax so you can drive to a car park miles from work, wait for a shuttle into town, then a walk or cycle to your job.

Where's the encouragement there??

So the encouragement comes from having a tax saver public transport ticket that works on ALL public transport, so that, in the case of hazlehatch p+r, you could use the train or bus to get to your destination. There would be minimal waiting, dedicated bus lanes for the bus and there is 4 tracks from hazlehatch to Heuston Station where the red line Luas interchange is.

tom1ie

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Invest in the outer ring road to lighten the burden on the M50 , ease planning on commercial buildings surrounding that outer ring road to encourage working outside the city, increase building heights dramatically in the city , focus on elevated rail / non road based/interfering public transport, increase the number of loading bays to kerb vans obstructing traffic being on double yellows, commit to no further reduction of parking spaces in dublin.

Ah the outer ring road. How many billion will that cost? How long before it’s built? How many p+r’s could be built for that money? How do you plan on reducing carbon emissions from cars if we build an outer ring road?

The p+r plan removes traffic, and improves air quality around Dublin.
The outer ring road removes traffic from Dublin until it gets clogged up with traffic again and we are back to square one. (And by the way it won’t really remove traffic from Dublin as you still have people that travel from maynooth to the cc, who would otherwise be hovered up by the p+r)

tom1ie

ELM327 wrote: »

I live in Meath and commute 70km each way to work in Dublin.
If public transport was free I would not take it. I'd have to get a Bus Eireann bus to the city centre, then a dublin bus from the city centre to work, doubling my commute time each way.

What area of the city do you work in? If there was a p+r at clonee with busses to the cc, that have minimal stops at interchange spots that have bus connects busses going through them, would that change your mind? If not why not?

P_1

Patww79 wrote: »

Well that's one line of thinking that needs to go for a start. Let people go to work and go home, it's not a social day out and trying to mush people onto buses to cater for some idyllic movie version of a job is the furthest thing away from what needs to be done.

So dystopian capitalistic, work, sleep, consume it is then? Be a good little lad and buy your car, buy your petrol that funds despotic regimes in the middle east. Be a good little cog in the machine and slave away making a rich man richer and get nothing in return.

Fcuk that noise

ELM327

tom1ie wrote: »

What area of the city do you work in? If there was a p+r at clonee with busses to the cc, that have minimal stops at interchange spots that have bus connects busses going through them, would that change your mind? If not why not?

North west Dublin.

P+R at clonee wouldnt make much difference as it's 30 mins from home to Clonee and 20 mins from Clonee to work, so if I've driven that far I'm driving the rest.

the_syco

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

As we are seeing clearly on this and other threads, some people choose to drive because they can't bear the thought of sitting beside a stranger.

I agree some are. Most drive because they have to.

Mystery666 wrote: »

So the commute contains driving for 25 mins, taking 2 trains and a short walk afterwards.

If you're lucky. Most people will have to get the train, followed by walking to get a bus. Waiting on a bus that's not full, getting said bus near their job, and walking some more.

My new job will be the following; 10 minute walk, 30 minute train ride, 20 minute walk, 40 minute bus ride. When I get a car, that entire commute will be 40 minutes.

cgcsb wrote: »

When you decided to live in a place inaccessible to public transport, you hardly did so thinking it'd always be cheap and easy to drive your vehicle into Dublin City Centre?

"Only place able to afford, that's not a crime ridden cesspit" is usually what they're thinking of.

cgcsb wrote: »

The level crossings on the Maynooth line are to be closed, which will allow for better frequency. Perhaps additional tolls or congestion charging would encourage more to use it.

Got a link to this? I'd say Kilmacredock residents will be happy about it. Although the Clonsilla crossing could be closed, I doubt the Coolmine crossing will be. If they both are, as well as the crossing at St Mochtas Football Club, that overpass near St Mochtas Football Club will see a doubling of traffic, and the roads near it will be hell.

cgcsb wrote: »

When you consider the 10s of thousands of people who join the N4 at the Lucan bypass heading inbound in the morning, is it really believable that these are mostly people with no alternatives.

The further out you go, the less Dublin Bus reaches. There are no P+R facilities along the N4. Once you get on it, you have to keep driving.

cgcsb wrote: »

But with widescale car bans and bus priority your bus commute would shorten significantly.

=-=

The only way for Dublins transport issue to be fixed would be for multiple P+R facilities to be set up near all major M50 junctions, that are specifically for P+R, and that are manned by security. Anytime I'm at the LUAS stop at the Red Cow, I see scattered piles of car window glass. If you charge people a flat fee for the week, and 24/7 shuttle buses (maybe less frequent outside of core business hours) going into the city centre AND to the other P+R facilities, it'll cut down on the car traffic going into the city centre.

Once this is in effect, you can then start doing other P+R facilities further outside of the city.

Fining people from going into the city won't work without working P+R facilities.

tom1ie

ELM327 wrote: »

North west Dublin.

P+R at clonee wouldnt make much difference as it's 30 mins from home to Clonee and 20 mins from Clonee to work, so if I've driven that far I'm driving the rest.

So am I right in thinking you work in the corduff area? Or are you inside the m50?
I’m just wondering as the drive to p+r can’t be changed. So your base time is 30 mins + whatever it’d be on pt. So if you had dedicated qbc’s on the n3 with interchanges along the way that’d surely be more attractive?

P_1

the_syco wrote: »

I agree some are. Most drive because they have to.


If you're lucky. Most people will have to get the train, followed by walking to get a bus. Waiting on a bus that's not full, getting said bus near their job, and walking some more.

My new job will be the following; 10 minute walk, 30 minute train ride, 20 minute walk, 40 minute bus ride. When I get a car, that entire commute will be 40 minutes.


"Only place able to afford, that's not a crime ridden cesspit" is usually what they're thinking of.


Got a link to this? I'd say Kilmacredock residents will be happy about it. Although the Clonsilla crossing could be closed, I doubt the Coolmine crossing will be. If they both are, as well as the crossing at St Mochtas Football Club, that overpass near St Mochtas Football Club will see a doubling of traffic, and the roads near it will be hell.


The further out you go, the less Dublin Bus reaches. There are no P+R facilities along the N4. Once you get on it, you have to keep driving.



=-=

The only way for Dublins transport issue to be fixed would be for multiple P+R facilities to be set up near all major M50 junctions, that are specifically for P+R, and that are manned by security. Anytime I'm at the LUAS stop at the Red Cow, I see scattered piles of car window glass. If you charge people a flat fee for the week, and 24/7 shuttle buses (maybe less frequent outside of core business hours) going into the city centre AND to the other P+R facilities, it'll cut down on the car traffic going into the city centre.

Once this is in effect, you can then start doing other P+R facilities further outside of the city.

Fining people from going into the city won't work without working P+R facilities.

That's what people are proposing though

ELM327

tom1ie wrote: »

So am I right in thinking you work in the corduff area? Or are you inside the m50?
I’m just wondering as the drive to p+r can’t be changed. So your base time is 30 mins + whatever it’d be on pt. So if you had dedicated qbc’s on the n3 with interchanges along the way that’d surely be more attractive?

You're correct. My main base is in the corduff area, with some days at other offices.


And to answer your question, even if I got free bus transfers from Clonee to work I'd still skip the P+R and just drive to work.

cgcsb

ELM327 wrote: »

So that's the centre to M50 reduced from 45 mins to 30.
What about the 20 min walk, the 1 hour bus in, and the walk from the bus eireann bus to the dublin bus?

Without knowing the specifics of your commute, it's hard to tell what specific improvements busconnects will offer you.

cgcsb

ELM327 wrote: »

You're correct. My main base is in the corduff area, with some days at other offices.


And to answer your question, even if I got free bus transfers from Clonee to work I'd still skip the P+R and just drive to work.

So you're not coming into Dublin City anyway??

ELM327

cgcsb wrote: »

So you're not coming into Dublin City anyway??

Very few people will commute into dublin city centre.
You're talking about those commuting to or past the m50 from commuter towns.
Like the example earlier of commuting from Naas to Citywest

AndrewJRenko

P_1 wrote: »

Patww79 wrote: »

Well that's one line of thinking that needs to go for a start. Let people go to work and go home, it's not a social day out and trying to mush people onto buses to cater for some idyllic movie version of a job is the furthest thing away from what needs to be done.

So dystopian capitalistic, work, sleep, consume it is then? Be a good little lad and buy your car, buy your petrol that funds despotic regimes in the middle east. Be a good little cog in the machine and slave away making a rich man richer and get nothing in return.

Fcuk that noise

https://goo.gl/images/HXoKNx

RayCun

ELM327 wrote: »

Very few people will commute into dublin city centre.

over 200,000 people cross the canal cordon every morning

cgcsb

ELM327 wrote: »

Very few people will commute into dublin city centre.

212,000 people crossed the canals inward bound during the morning peak 07-10 in 2017. The highest number ever recorded.

Of these 29% made that journey by car, the lowest proportion of total crossings since counting began in the 1990s and a continuing downward trend is evident.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Canal_Cordon_Report_2017.pdf

less than 150,00 vehicles are counted between the N2 and N3 junctions on an AADT basis, i.e. the number of vehicles across the whole day in both directions. The same figure for Newlands X is only 101,000.

From this it's obvious the critical area is Dublin City Centre not peripheral areas, hence the area where transport policy will concentrate on reducing car usage. I don't think there'll be any serious policy measures aimed at discouraging Naas-Citywest trips in the near future.

Carlingford Locked

Reading this thread makes me want to pray for traffic to just get worse and worse. You deserve to sit in horrible traffic getting fat with your attitudes.