Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Penn

Incredible thread on twitter analysing the Cohen stuff. Very informative

https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1071201140010815489?s=19

For Forks Sake

Jesus christ, he's still going... https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1071454998414921728

pixelburp

All joking aside, when you consider all the resignations, firings, reshuffles and Trumps own aversion to knowledge, who's likely left in the White House that could be bothered correcting him? Do we even know if he even still gets the bullet pointed briefings anymore? Nobodys will is ironclad, and even the most patient would likely find less effort and stress in their day avoiding having to inform that no Mr President, the riots are not about the Paris Agreement. What spectacular ignorance, what colossal hubris.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

All joking aside, when you consider all the resignations, firings, reshuffles and Trumps own aversion to knowledge, who's likely left in the White House that could be bothered correcting him? Do we even know if he even still gets the bullet pointed briefings anymore? Nobodys will is ironclad, and even the most patient would likely find less effort and stress in their day avoiding having to inform that no Mr President, the riots are not about the Paris Agreement. What spectacular ignorance, what colossal hubris.

I almost miss RIGOLO popping in to tell us about how the grown ups in the White House have everything in hand, and Trump's master plan is going smoothly.

TomOnBoard

Unfortunately theres gonna be no-one left there who could write an op-ed after Kelly leaves. Thankfully the House committees will at least be able to perform some real Congressional oversight for the first time in this administration..

eagle eye

I'm watching Army vs Navy American football and he is at the game.
Smart move from him to turn up there as regards positive pr.

spacecoyote

https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/12/08/the-legal-battle-that-could-undermine-law-at-center-of-mueller-probe-1052217?__twitter_impression=true

A potentially interesting angle here that Trump could latch on to, depending on the outcome.

In essence, there is a case challenging the legality of the ban on foreign contributions to campaigns.

The article is basically stating that it could set a precedent which could impact on Muellers investigations & the potential charges he could bring

TomOnBoard

spacecoyote wrote: »

https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/12/08/the-legal-battle-that-could-undermine-law-at-center-of-mueller-probe-1052217?__twitter_impression=true

A potentially interesting angle here that Trump could latch on to, depending on the outcome.

In essence, there is a case challenging the legality of the ban on foreign contributions to campaigns.

The article is basically stating that it could set a precedent which could impact on Muellers investigations & the potential charges he could bring

I'm sure Giuliani and his team will be happy to throw this into the obfuscation mix. However, it seems a huge stretch to me. Even if the legal arguments succeeded in this case, it's a local mayoral election that's in focus here and not a federal Presidential election.

Itssoeasy

I have to recommend the podcast that Rachel Maddow( I know i'm not a big fan but admire her research) has out about former VP Spiro Agnew and the carry on he was up to. I knew the audio played was from the late sixties/early seventies but honestly the language used then is not far away from Trump's playbook. The podcast is called Bagman is it's excellent and I doubt anyone to not notice the striking similarities between then and now.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/Amy_Siskind/status/1071625780092911616?s=19

This is, to me, the kind of story that precipitates the Reps turning on him.

Even without many Court dates left in Cohen & Manafort, the scandals keep coming. 2020 isn't that far away and he's becoming more and more toxic.

Another point which may have been raised here before. It appears that if Trump is not re-elected, the statue of limitations won't have expired on some of his crimes. Which means that if he runs again and loses, he could be toast.

What are the chances that a Dem president would pardon him? Zero.

However, if he reigns before then, Pence takes over and Pence could pardon him.

I still believe that with his family likely to be indicted, he might step down to make a deal to save them but others say he is too self centred, so if that's true maybe self preservation might force him to take the resign option.

Gbear

Hopefully a string of cynical pardons would outrage the American people and the Dems enough that they'd move to remove it as a presidential power, although I don't know what process that would involve.

This entire case would be drastically different if Trump didn't have the absurd ability to arbitrarily dismiss the work of one of the branches of government that's supposed to act as a check to his power.

He probably already would've resigned and fled to the Middle East.

Penn

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Amy_Siskind/status/1071625780092911616?s=19

This is, to me, the kind of story that precipitates the Reps turning on him.

Even without many Court dates left in Cohen & Manafort, the scandals keep coming. 2020 isn't that far away and he's becoming more and more toxic.

Another point which may have been raised here before. It appears that if Trump is not re-elected, the statue of limitations won't have expired on some of his crimes. Which means that if he runs again and loses, he could be toast.

What are the chances that a Dem president would pardon him? Zero.

However, if he reigns before then, Pence takes over and Pence could pardon him.

I still believe that with his family likely to be indicted, he might step down to make a deal to save them but others say he is too self centred, so if that's true maybe self preservation might force him to take the resign option.

I think as was the case with Manafort, Pence could conceivably pardon the Trumps on federal crimes, but once that door is kicked open there's likely a lot of state crimes that could come out of it, particularly relating to Trump Org and Trump Foundation, and Pence may not be able to pardon those. As such I see Trump hanging on to the Presidency as long as he can to try shift the laws enough to protect himself and his family. Right now it's up to the House Dems to stop that from happening.

Igotadose

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I have to recommend the podcast that Rachel Maddow( I know i'm not a big fan but admire her research) has out about former VP Spiro Agnew and the carry on he was up to. I knew the audio played was from the late sixties/early seventies but honestly the language used then is not far away from Trump's playbook. The podcast is called Bagman is it's excellent and I doubt anyone to not notice the striking similarities between then and now.

Some of us grew up in that era, listening to that creep go on about the "nattering nabobs of negativism." Worst VP at least until Dick Cheney showed up.

Then, Nixon picked Nelson Rockefeller as his replacement, who famously flipped the bird at a speech to a university. Being from NYC, knew Nelson's antics well and the level of corruption he stood for. What is it with the Republicans and the corruption and nepotism?

dr.fuzzenstein

John Kelly gone, the game of musical chairs in the White House continues.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/08/us/politics/john-kelly-chief-staff-trump.html

The announcement of Mr. Kelly’s departure comes as the White House braces for the final stages of the investigation by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, including a report detailing his findings on questions of collusion and obstruction of justice. The president also faces a string of oversight investigations into his administration from Democrats after they take control of the House next month.

He must have done something right

“John Kelly will be leaving — I don’t know if I can say ‘retiring,’” the president said. “But he’s a great guy. John Kelly will be leaving at the end of the year.”

Gbear

Igotadose wrote: »

Some of us grew up in that era, listening to that creep go on about the "nattering nabobs of negativism." Worst VP at least until Dick Cheney showed up.

Then, Nixon picked Nelson Rockefeller as his replacement, who famously flipped the bird at a speech to a university. Being from NYC, knew Nelson's antics well and the level of corruption he stood for. What is it with the Republicans and the corruption and nepotism?

Traditionalists and other religious thinkers aren't good at holding people to account for their actions.

The Republicans, right and far right parties in general are hardly the only ones for whom this is the case, but that is what most of their base is comprised of.

Their platform is one of an identity that revolves around morality, but it's only an identity. The actions that accompany it are irrelevant.
Again and again, Democrats are punished for misbehaviour because their constituents judge them on behaviour and policy, while the Republicans are willing to vote en masse for a literal paedophile like Roy Moore if he shares their identity.

Why do people still stand by the Catholic Church, or pretty much any organised religion? They've all engaged in similar institutional abuse.

It's a mindset that's fundamentally at odds with the kind of secular humanism that has become the central pillar of progressive thought.
It's a puzzling dichotomy in what is outwardly such an individualistic country like the US. They talk about being self-actualised free individuals, but they cling to the institutions of the past at the expense of the individual, including themselves.

Perhaps it's the result of a society that pushes individualism, where many are unable to actually live and flourish as individuals.

Tell me how

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I have to recommend the podcast that Rachel Maddow( I know i'm not a big fan but admire her research) has out about former VP Spiro Agnew and the carry on he was up to. I knew the audio played was from the late sixties/early seventies but honestly the language used then is not far away from Trump's playbook. The podcast is called Bagman is it's excellent and I doubt anyone to not notice the striking similarities between then and now.

I'm listening to that also. It is incredible the parallels between then and now.

And you know what, If we had audio recordings from interactions and public messages throughout the history of the human race i bet you would find the same motivations and manipulation and misleading statements.

Human nature and behaviour is largely consistent even as technology has progressed even if some of the more outlandish practices have been curbed.

duploelabs

With each of these reports I read of Mueller's net tightening, Ennio Morricone's The Strength of the Righteous plays louder and louder in my head.

https://youtu.be/GGN6Z6iFR0E

amandstu

Gbear wrote: »

.

Perhaps it's the result of a society that pushes individualism, where many are unable to actually live and flourish as individuals.

Individualism as an ideology has its limits.

Circumstances can favour it (as when authoritarianism looses the run of itself) or when particular individuals attract genuine admiration (not phony cult leaders or self serving authority figures) but there is a balance that will reassert itself in a boom and bust way over the time periods.


....so long as I am not asked for historical references:)

Gbear

Tell me how wrote: »

I'm listening to that also. It is incredible the parallels between then and now.

And you know what, If we had audio recordings from interactions and public messages throughout the history of the human race i bet you would find the same motivations and manipulation and misleading statements.

Human nature and behaviour is largely consistent even as technology has progressed even if some of the more outlandish practices have been curbed.

I'd also recommend Slow Burn by Leon Neyfakh for Slate.

You hear very similar kinds of talk from supporters about how some actually want an autocracy so long as big strong Nixon deals with the feminists hippies, cucks anti-war protesters, and gets tough on immigration crime.

Similar kinds of self-serving snakes behind the scenes, similar brazen lying. One might even say, similar stupidity in how Nixon recorded meetings where they discussed illegal actions.

I wonder was it just a question of it being another time of upheaval in history springing this forth, or is it actually just like this all the time and it's only a matter of chance whether one villain or another happens along with enough support to get into power, while the institution is there the whole time creating the environment for them to flourish when they do.

It's both reassuring in that it was stopped before, and terrifying on how it might not have been.

aloyisious

I'm waiting to see who will be on the running list for W/H COS for the new year. I wonder will both Don and his national security adviser run with the idea to have both posts filled by the one person. I'd like to know what finally pushed Kelly over the edge with an early leaving announcement, like with the UN Ambassador still in the job till year end.

Carry

aloyisious wrote: »

I'm waiting to see who will be on the running list for W/H COS for the new year. I wonder will both Don and his national security adviser run with the idea to have both posts filled by the one person. I'd like to know what finally pushed Kelly over the edge with an early leaving announcement, like with the UN Ambassador still in the job till year end.

Trump favours Nick Ayers, COS of Pence. He is a favourite of Kushner and Ivanka - go figure.
Otherwise he is apparently hated for his naked ambition and his youth (he is 36). There could be some mud-slinging in the White House about that position.

As for Kelly: Maybe he prefers to get out of the firing line when the Dems start serious action in January. Who knows. But being finally pushed over the edge is a given with Trump, I guess. It's a miracle he lasted that long.

relax carry on

His Twitter Tourettes/distraction tactic (whichever one you favour, continues). Everyone is against him boo hoo. He's like a spoiled child. If there's a business genius or whatever he supposed to be lurking behind these tweets, I can't see it. It's shocking that this is what US politics is right now. When he's gone will they learn their lesson from this debacle?

spacecoyote

Carry wrote: »

Trump favours Nick Ayers, COS of Pence. He is a favourite of Kushner and Ivanka - go figure.
Otherwise he is apparently hated for his naked ambition and his youth (he is 36). There could be some mud-slinging in the White House about that position.

As for Kelly: Maybe he prefers to get out of the firing line when the Dems start serious action in January. Who knows. But being finally pushed over the edge is a given with Trump, I guess. It's a miracle he lasted that long.

Well it looks like Ayers has already taken himself out of the running. Is the writing really on the wall?

Check out @nick_ayers’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/nick_ayers/status/1071879332283453440?s=09

Water John

If you know you are a shoe in for the Chief of Staff job and turn it down, you know something.

mcmoustache

spacecoyote wrote: »

Well it looks like Ayers has already taken himself out of the running. Is the writing really on the wall?

Yes. A few weeks ago, political types could lie in support of Trump, safe in the knowledge that it was only the "fake news media" making up lies about Trump. Now, he's Individual 1 who directed felonies according to his own Justice department.

duploelabs

Water John wrote: »

If you know you are a shoe in for the Chief of Staff job and turn it down, you know something.

The boat is taking on water, will the captain go down with the ship?

prawnsambo

Water John wrote: »

If you know you are a shoe in for the Chief of Staff job and turn it down, you know something.

Well he's leaving the WH atogether, so it may well be that he had something else lined up already. That doesn't negate the possibility you allude to, but it could also be as I say as well. I suspect a lot of WH staffers are looking around and probably have been for a while. It's nice on your CV, but after a while you have to cash in on it.

Leroy42

Kelly leaving has been in the works for a while, and Ayers was obviously the replacement choice.

So they would have tried to talk him into taking the role and somehow were not able to.

Sure he may have other things lined up, but CoS to the POTUS is a pretty serious job, not one that a person turns down lightly. Certainly not someone that is already involved.

So whatever the real reasons behind the decision, this is yet again another failure for Trump.

TomOnBoard

All the 'surprises' that have been signalled by Mueller's indictments so far kinda pale compared to the matters and innuendos presented in 'Active Measures', although they are clearly inter-twined. If you accept the thrust of that documentary's content, you'd have to ask
a) did an actual Russian-organised coup d'etat take place in 2016, and if not,
b) how in God's name did all these sleazeballs get away with what appears to be massive criminal activity for so long without prosecution??

Then, you'd also have to.ask
a) would anyone be caring about all this at all if Trump had not taken the Presidency, and
b) how many thousands of other similarly wide-ranging crooks are operating throughout the U.S. and getting away with it, by not making the mistake of running for President?

What a fcukin awful world we live in when these activities are carried out by some while they sh*t down on top of the rest of us and call it democracy. It makes an almost atheist hope there really is a Heaven and a Hell, and that the latter is keeping many p!aces very hot indeed to welcome some of these monsters home...

everlast75

Monday's schedule for DJT is clear, other than one meeting.... with Mike Pence.