Zappi charge points

postsnthing

Hi all need a charger at home I see zappi is extremely popular here, I don't have solar and no plans for next 5 years at least. What charger would be recommended ?

unkel

postsnthing wrote: »

Hi all need a charger at home I see zappi is extremely popular here, I don't have solar and no plans for next 5 years at least. What charger would be recommended ?

Then the extra cost for going Zappi is a waste. If I were you I'd get a new or even second hand 32A charger and have your usual electrician install it. Should come under or around the €600 mark, so with the €600 it will effectively be free

postsnthing

unkel wrote:

Then the extra cost for going Zappi is a waste. If I were you I'd get a new or even second hand 32A charger and have your usual electrician install it. Should come under or around the €600 mark, so with the €600 it will effectively be free

That would be great but it seems that all electricians have gotten the memo to charge a fortune for installation !

Bluefoam

I'm planning to move into a house with PV energy, although theres only 3 panels on the roof & I'm struggling to get more info on output. How effective is the Eco+ mode on the Zappi? How long does it take to power up (slow charge or fast?). I'm new to all this (solar engery & electric cars)... but eager to get involved.

stimpson

There is a good summary of how it works here: https://www.spiritenergy.co.uk/kb-ev-charging-myenergi-zappi

I don’t have PV so can’t comment but it looks like you can set it to charge when you have enough sunlight (you need 1.4kW minimum to charge an EV) or supplement your grid with PV.

Bluefoam

stimpson wrote: »

There is a good summary of how it works here: https://www.spiritenergy.co.uk/kb-ev-charging-myenergi-zappi

I don’t have PV so can’t comment but it looks like you can set it to charge when you have enough sunlight (you need 1.4kW minimum to charge an EV) or supplement your grid with PV.

Thanks, that is the most easily understood explanation I've read yet. I get it now. I'm also going to guess that the roof will output the 1.4kW required, I'm also going to guess that it'll take a very long time to charge the car...

Mickeroo

Bluefoam wrote: »

Thanks, that is the most easily understood explanation I've read yet. I get it now. I'm also going to guess that the roof will output the 1.4kW required, I'm also going to guess that it'll take a very long time to charge the car...

You'd only really get the benefit when the car happens to be sitting at the house all day.

TheChizler

Bluefoam wrote: »

Thanks, that is the most easily understood explanation I've read yet. I get it now. I'm also going to guess that the roof will output the 1.4kW required, I'm also going to guess that it'll take a very long time to charge the car...

Depends how much you need to charge up by. People quite often make the mistake of using the full battery capacity when calculating charge times, but unless you've a long commute you basically only need a top-up which might only be a few kWh.

stimpson

Bluefoam wrote: »

Thanks, that is the most easily understood explanation I've read yet. I get it now. I'm also going to guess that the roof will output the 1.4kW required, I'm also going to guess that it'll take a very long time to charge the car...

That depends on your daily usage, your PV array output and the weather. If you have a 30kWh car and you always arrive home with an empty battery then it will take about 20 hours of full sunshine if your output is 1.4kW. And that assuming you can charge while the sun is shining.

You can use a timed boost on the Zappi to ensure you have a full battery when you need it by drawing from the grid. Personally, I use the smart boost to charge on night rate at 9c/kWh. With a 10kW battery it would take 20 years to save the cost of a €10K EV install.

Bluefoam

Thanks all... It sounds like Zappi is the waty forward for me. The solar will already be in place & the charger seems to give flexibility... Plus if required in the future, I can just throw up a couple more panels.

n97 mini

Bluefoam wrote: »

I'm planning to move into a house with PV energy, although theres only 3 panels on the roof & I'm struggling to get more info on output. How effective is the Eco+ mode on the Zappi? How long does it take to power up (slow charge or fast?). I'm new to all this (solar engery & electric cars)... but eager to get involved.

Don't waste your money on a Zappi if you've only 3 panels. At midday on a perfectly clear day they won't generate close to enough to start charging, and charging therefore will be largely on (expensive, daytime) grid.

Modern panels are 300 watt (each) in perfect conditions, and some of that will be lost by the inverter. Car needs about 1400 watt to start charging, and that'll be at snail's pace.

Save your cash, and just charge on night rate.

unkel

If you plan to install a lot more solar soon enough, you might go for a Zappi. Otherwise just go for a cheaper charger.

postsnthing

n97 mini wrote:

Don't waste your money on a Zappi if you've only 3 panels. At midday on a perfectly clear day they won't generate close to enough to start charging, and charging therefore will be largely on (expensive, daytime) grid.

n97 mini wrote:

Modern panels are 300 watt (each) in perfect conditions, and some of that will be lost by the inverter. Car needs about 1400 watt to start charging, and that'll be at snail's pace.

n97 mini wrote:

Save your cash, and just charge on night rate.

What cash is to be saved ? I'm struggling to find a reasonable unit and install, prices are outrageous

unkel

A Zappi costs €600, you can buy a second hand 32A charger from about €200 - they come up from time to time on electric car forums like here, on adverts.ie, on UK forums, etc.

The rest of the cost of materials and labour is the same for either, so you would save €400 by not going Zappi

stimpson

The tethered Zappi is pretty good value. €585 from electricautos.ie

n97 mini

postsnthing wrote: »

What cash is to be saved ? I'm struggling to find a reasonable unit and install, prices are outrageous

I sold our 7.2kw tethered Chargemaster for 220 euro on adverts last year. Keep an eye out. They are there. The 400 odd saving buys a lot of electricity.

n97 mini

stimpson wrote: »

The tethered Zappi is pretty good value. €585 from electricautos.ie

That's a competitive price for a Zappi, but unless you have a very large solar installation, and the car is at home to take advantage, it's going to be a waste of money.

unkel

I have a fairly large solar installation. And my car is at home a lot during the day as I work mostly from home most days bar maybe 2 days and my other half commutes by public transport. I contemplated selling my ABL 32A charger and then buying a Zappi. I could swap the units myself. But the cost to change (€400 plus I need a lot longer of a cable than the max 8m that Myenergi can provide) is just too much. And every kWh of solar PV that goes through the Zappi is only worth 8c as I could charge the car at night

Instead I am focussing on a cheap but powerful home attached battery storage solution :cool: A lot of the kWh of solar PV that go through the battery are worth 18c as it powers my house in the evening at the higher rate (which is likely to go up big time in future - the night rate might very well go down in future as we install more wind farms)

Nedved85

Tweet from MyEnergi yesterday showing some screenshots of the upcoming Hub App - Looks decent enough:

https://twitter.com/myenergiuk/status/1118949480676642819

stimpson

n97 mini wrote: »

That's a competitive price for a Zappi, but unless you have a very large solar installation, and the car is at home to take advantage, it's going to be a waste of money.

The Zappi will load balance so you save the cost of a priority switch (€100 plus labour). If you buy an untethered charger then you also need to factor in €150 for a charge cable. the Outlander has an issue if you use the charge timer where preheating/cooling uses the battery, so I use the Zappi smart boost, then any preheating comes from the mains.

The total installed cost for me after the grant was €155. If and when I get around to solar/battery I don’t need to replace my charger. I think the marginal cost of a Zappi after the grant makes it worthwhile.

daheff

unkel wrote: »

plus I need a lot longer of a cable than the max 8m that Myenergi can provide

2nd gen Zappi will (Eventually) be available untethered -but i think more expensive

postsnthing

stimpson wrote:

The total installed cost for me after the grant was €155. If and when I get around to solar/battery I don’t need to replace my charger. I think the marginal cost of a Zappi after the grant makes it worthwhile.

Would appreciate a pm for the install on this trying to get one at the moment but prices are crazy

stimpson

postsnthing wrote: »

Would appreciate a pm for the install on this trying to get one at the moment but prices are crazy

http://whelehanelectric.com/

Ray was in doing the electrics for my new kitchen at the time and the Zappi is within a couple of feet from my fuseboard, so I’d say that was a rock bottom price, but he’s a good spark. I was very happy with the job.

KCross

The gotcha with electricians installing EVSE's under the grant is that they have to provide a cert and fill-in the paperwork.... both of which take extra time and real money.... I've seen very reasonable quotes for labour costs to install an EVSE but €150 for the cert/paperwork.

If you happen to have a mate who is willing to do you a twist and submit the cert for free or if you are getting other electrical work done at the same time then the cert would not be an issue but as a once off job from a certified electrician following the rules and providing certs and paperwork etc it's going to be ~€300, depending on the job..... add in the cost of a new EVSE and its easy enough to go over the €600 grant allowance.... it still makes sense to utilise it though.

postsnthing

KCross wrote:

If you happen to have a mate who is willing to do you a twist and submit the cert for free or if you are getting other electrical work done at the same time then the cert would not be an issue but as a once off job from a certified electrician following the rules and providing certs and paperwork etc it's going to be ~€300, depending on the job..... add in the cost of a new EVSE and its easy enough to go over the €600 grant allowance.... it still makes sense to utilise it though.

Yeah I know and would expect grant tax but when they are looking for 600+ on top of the zappi price it definitely seems a bit over the top

Mickeroo

I told my electrician what the going rate was for installing the likes of the zappi after he did mine and his jaw hit the floor.

KCross

postsnthing wrote: »

Yeah I know and would expect grant tax but when they are looking for 600+ on top of the zappi price it definitely seems a bit over the top

€600 is over the top unless its a very awkward install.

postsnthing

KCross wrote:

€600 is over the top unless its a very awkward install.

This is just the "price" and could be extra depending on difficulty !

stimpson

I just remembered I saw a post on EV owners buy and sell group on Facebook. These guys were at the ideal homes in the RDS said they do a Zappi install countrywide for €900 supplies and fitted. Not the cheapest, but far from the most expensive.

https://pvsolarireland.com/

unkel

That's the cheapest I have heard. Not a bad deal, given the paperwork involved, the guts of €100 in materials and a proper company charging VAT on the lot. €300 net cost to you.