Shotgun 2020

shotgunmcos

chickey2 wrote: »

"Could I have done 6 more as the program will require for the first SOS?"

But would you be doing 12*400m at the same speed as this session? What is the recommended 400m split for your plan?

That's part of the self talk I have during sessions :rolleyes: No, On the plan I'll have a target of 86-87 per rep, with an acceptable range of 1sec either way so range 85-88 (average yesterday was 84) I'll set it up on the watch as a range to help me control the pace during shorter reps so I can establish the pace for the longer reps in later weeks. The idea is that I should be able to hold my recovery or easy pace between reps.

I didn't use the watch for yesterdays session, just ran hard for each rep. Goes to show what actually happens when you don't put some control on a session. 5 out of 6 of those reps would have been outside the target range.

Even if I was feeling really good, I'd look to do them within the target pace range and not smash one or all out.

Here is a link to the session on the plan as I did it last cycle

chickey2

Thanks for that link. I've decided I'll try the Hanson half plan and I was just working our my own paces for the 12*400m. It's always interesting to see how others did the same session. My paces will be a lot slower than yours though!

RedB

shotgunmcos wrote: »

RedB thanks man, sorry I missed you. Heard a shout but didn't find your face. How was your day?

Hi Mike, apologies for the delay. I don't get on here much anymore. My day was good. Was optimistically targeting 3:50 but happy to get home in 3:59:xx. Ran with a buddy till M22 and then had to let him off as my head and legs were fried. Got a land when the Sub 4 pacer came alongside me at the Maternity Hospital so I had to push again and hope cramp didn't kick in. Enjoyed the day and the training block so hope to do DCM if I can get an entry in July. I'll keep a passing eye on here to see how it's supposed to be done!:)

shotgunmcos

Disaster of a week. Non running related quad strain! The one and only run with intervals during the week didn't help. I've put on 3kg since Limerick, just eating rubbish plus eating like I'm still running 8hrs a week.

The quad is improving, lots of walking around today. Trying something this week. Fasted Base miles. Essentially don't eat after 6pm and run every morning easy at 6am. It's a discipline exercise more than anything else to shake the sugar habit but in a way to get the body using fat straight away. Obviously depending on the quad holding up.

shotgunmcos

Monday 27 May
Fasted run 1/8
8.5m Easy @8:24, hr 129, time 1:11:24

The first of 8 fasted runs. Running before breakfast is no new thing for but not eating after 6pm the previous night is. I wouldn't even describe 70mins easy as fasted as usually eat so late. Why?

Lose weight. A week of sun with the kids from next week and I'd rather just not have the excess weight for running in the sun. Disgusted when I looked at the scale and 80+kg looked back to me yesterday. It will come off for sure when I get back into the plan but I'd rather start the plan without "needing" to lose weight.

Drop the sugar habit. More than weight, its the glycogen/petrol fuel. The plan is not bringing in double runs, just more out of most runs. I'd rather burn fat for as long as possible and this basically means having a better aerobic base oxidizing fat and progressing the aerobic threshold, VO2.

Back to morning training. Runs will likely get missed if I miss the morning. Life after work is too busy and I find that training at 10pm leads to late eating, late to sleep, late getting up, tired the next day and eating rubbish/coffee...

Niggle management: The quad strain is just annoying but lounging around waiting for it to "heal" was doing my head in. I've had a quad strain before and easy running did it no harm and it fixed itself with stretching and rolling after them. Worst case scenario I have another physio session after the kiddie hols.

The run itself was pleasant, a bright dawn. I meandered down a quiet road I haven't run before, using heart rate to cap the effort. The kids were delighted when I arrived in as I always make creamy scrambled eggs for breakfast after a run and they get a second breakfast

AuldManKing

I've been 80kg all my life - I reckon I was born 80kg and no mileage reduces it that much.
I'll be interested to see how that goes for you.

zico10

AuldManKing wrote: »

I've been 80kg all my life - I reckon I was born 80kg and no mileage reduces it that much.
I'll be interested to see how that goes for you.

Maybe look at food intake so.

After my first few years in triathlon, I thought I was stuck at 74-75kg. With concerted effort and a lot discipline, I got down to 71kg for a marathon in 2014 and never really came near that weight again until I started training for DCM last October. I would have previously thought there was no way I could have gotten my weight down below 70kg without compromising my performance, but I weighed in at 69.7kg on the morning of the marathon. This was in a fully carb loaded state and seven out of the seven mornings of marathon week, 69.something kg registered on my scales, so there was nothing contrived about it.

Just my 2c.

AuldManKing

zico10 wrote: »

Maybe look at food intake so.

After my first few years in triathlon, I thought I was stuck at 74-75kg. With concerted effort and a lot discipline, I got down to 71kg for a marathon in 2014 and never really came near that weight again until I started training for DCM last October. I would have previously thought there was no way I could have gotten my weight down below 70kg without compromising my performance, but I weighed in at 69.7kg on the morning of the marathon. This was in a fully carb loaded state and seven out of the seven mornings of marathon week, 69.something kg registered on my scales, so there was nothing contrived about it.

Just my 2c.

Thanks for that - food for thought (pun intended).

average_runner

AuldManKing wrote: »

I've been 80kg all my life - I reckon I was born 80kg and no mileage reduces it that much.
I'll be interested to see how that goes for you.

Understand where you are coming from. I am 6ft and the lowest I can get is 80kg myself.

shotgunmcos

Tuesday 28 May
Fasted Run 2/8
8.53m Easy @8:24, hr 130, time 1:11:38

Almost a carbon copy of yesterdays run, except I was out a few minutes earlier and the heart rate was 1bpm higher due to a few minutes of Garmin spiking. Just day 2 so I won't read much into it. Light rain and light wind made it feel chillier than yesterday. The last 10-15 minutes were a little ropey. I'd imagine if I have even a small kcal deficit each day this ropey feeling will show up earlier in the runs or my body will adapt? I'll report on the weight tracking at the end of the 8 days.

@AMK on the 80kg. I've dropped as low as 76 when fit (Ironman fit). I was 78+ for Limerick on the morning or 79+ after breakfast. I think I have seen 75 on the scale only when fit and after a long unfueled morning session. To Zico's point though , I can hand on heart say that I haven't really applied the discipline to food intake to see if <76 was possible.

shotgunmcos

average_runner wrote: »

Understand where you are coming from. I am 6ft and the lowest I can get is 80kg myself.

I'm just under 6ft and have shoulders and a back that spent years in the gym and in rowing boats. I have hamstrings that sprinted on track and rugby fields. I generally hover around 80-82 but dropped to 76 for my first Ironman but that was averaging 15hrs a week training for about 6 months. I was relatively disciplined about diet.

If you body fat is 10% or under then I'd imagine you are as light as you could be without losing muscle. Do you know what your BF is?

average_runner

shotgunmcos wrote: »

I'm just under 6ft and have shoulders and a back that spent years in the gym and in rowing boats. I have hamstrings that sprinted on track and rugby fields. I generally hover around 80-82 but dropped to 76 for my first Ironman but that was averaging 15hrs a week training for about 6 months. I was relatively disciplined about diet.

If you body fat is 10% or under then I'd imagine you are as light as you could be without losing muscle. Do you know what your BF is?

No idea about my BF. My stomach would be my bad area. Might get it checked out after the Charleville half.

shotgunmcos

Tuesday 28 May Session 2
Row Easy 30mins, hr 135, dist 7,230m
Core 10mins intensive and 15mins stretching

Basically warming up to do some quick tough core and stretches. The left hip is coming around with the focus on it. The row was another 400 kcal burned so definitely expecting the run in the morning to be ropey.

shotgunmcos

Wednesday 29 May
Fasted Run 3/8
8.53m Easy @8:20, hr bonkers, time 1:11:06

Forgot to mention that I had to wait my turn to use the rower yesterday. Zoe, my 4 year old, decided to jump on and pulled 1,000m over 11 minutes! Gushing I was.

Anyway the run sure was ropey. Up late last night so about 5hrs kip before this. Glass of water and out the door reluctantly into the miserable misty 6am rain. I was soaked within minutes and it felt chilly too. The Garmin hrm was acting up (often does with low battery and rain) so I ran on feel, the same loop, backwards. It felt like all the hills were in the first few miles. There was a growl from my belly at the end. Straight into the shower and the onto the scale. I'll report the outcome of the daily weigh ins on Monday. I've maintained 12hrs before each of these runs. So last eat at 6pm and run at 6am. Great to have it in the bank and sitting down to breakfast with the family Yawning now though..

shotgunmcos

Thursday 30 May
Fasted Run 4/8
8.56m @8:30, hr 133, time 1:12:45

Another easy base run around suburbia and lonely country roads. The alarm went off at 0530 but it was 0612 by the time I got out. Really dragged my heels but the house snored away. The first couple of miles were stiff and creaky. Niggles are still niggles. Around 4m or half way through I just got lost in thought and started to feel great. The legs were in a groove and the miles flew, as much as slow miles can :rolleyes: It was a muggy morning so the heart rate was a shade over the cap even with a slower pace than the last few days. A lot going on in life this week so it all contributes. Happy to keep up the mornings. Its just 4 days and it takes what, 21? to make a habit? Sunday morning will be a test as we are out at Jenny Green on Saturday night and my Bro will be mad for road.

Energy levels are solid enough but the runs are very easy. I haven't been ravenous for breakfast. That would be very different if I was doing 8m tempo! For the next 4 mornings I'm going to build a little the last few miles or add strides for the sake of sanity more than anything else.

shotgunmcos

Friday 31 May
Fasted Run 5/8
8.57m Easy @8:10, hr 138, time 1:09:56

Hmmm ropey. It felt like, not quite summer. Still, I was out there getting it done. Day 5 of 8, asking myself why? I progressed the pace over miles 5-8 to the steady side of easy. The legs were sort of wondering what was going on that I was asking them to move quicker than plod! The left hip niggle is still a thing and the weighing scale looked back at me to say.. you again?

Then porridge this morning, exactly what I needed after an hour of sweating in the warm soupy humid air and a hot shower. I may stop sweating sometime this afternoon :rolleyes:

Looking forward to the weekend when I can spend lots of time post run stretching and rolling. I need to get the blue spiky ball into the hip, assuming Evan, my 2 year old didn't hurl that over the ditch last weekend too.

ReeReeG

shotgunmcos wrote:

Then porridge this morning, exactly what I needed after an hour of sweating in the warm soupy humid air and a hot shower. I may stop sweating sometime this afternoon

Would you try overnight oats to avoid the heat of porridge in the summer?!

chickey2

ReeReeG wrote: »

Would you try overnight oats to avoid the heat of porridge in the summer?!

That's exactly what I was about to suggest. I've been making it in advance and it's so handy to take from the fridge and eat straight after a run. Nice and cold but with the benefits of porridge. I throw in some berries and chia seeds too.

shotgunmcos

Yep I've made a chocolate and peanut butter version for early trains to Dublin. We always soak oats overnight in coconut milk so I could just add yoghurt and berries etc

It was on by the time I was back from the run this morning. I'll separate out a portion next time. Thanks guys!

shotgunmcos

I stopped running after the last update. The body was giving me signs that I was pushing it. Work too was taking its toll so I had to back off. Plus my hip was not improving.

Overall it was 43m running at base aerobic level last week. Each day I last ate at 6pm. I got up at 5:30, drank a pint of water, ran 8m on the same route and at the same effort, then weighed in.

M: 78.8kg
T: 78.4
W: 78.3
T: 78.1
F: 78.3

Interestingly on Wednesday night I did a half hour on the rower and that slight extra kcal deficit was the lowest weigh in next morning. I didn't change eating habits, just ate more at different times. It was boring though. I'm looking forward to getting back to a structure of running. I'll just make small changes and the weight will come down slowly.

The hip is annoying though. I've taken a few complete rest days and it feels worse than when I was running! The DCM plan is a few weeks away and I have a week away with the kids this week so there is time. A physio session next week will hopefully find it out and give me a solution.

Due to the work thing I may have to go to a weekly update. I'll still read and follow all your logs though

shotgunmcos

Weekly roundup
June 3-9

Monday: Nothing. Mowed the lawn before a downpour.

Tuesday: Nothing. Travel

Wednesday: Easy 7.75m @ 8:04 on the Playa Blanca Prom out East 2m to the end. Climbed a steep trail up onto the cliff the meandered around dirt steep trails for a couple of miles. Pretty warm and sunny on the return.

Thursday: Out first thing. Or an hour before first thing as my clocks were still on IE time. Easy 8.03m @ 8:18. Just me and cats on the East Prom. Thought I might catch a sunrise over the volcanoes but 0530 was way too early. Dark and cloudy but the lovely sound of the coast waters crashing off rocks. Hip sore at slow paces.

Friday: Early again and caught the dawn in time to see the sun peak over the black hills. 10.22m as 3m easy, 5m progression, 2m easy including 5x20sec strides. East Prom this time took me to a lighthouse on the SW tip of the Island. Lovely undulating scenic route. Very enjoyable. Focused on cadence to average 170. High for me and WIP.
Progression miles: 7:40, 7:34, 7:05, 6:51, 6:48

Saturday: Easy/Steady 8.12m @7:58 out and back to the lighthouse in the afternoon sun and strong wind. Took 500ml drink on this and needed it. Mainly easy for most the a couple of 7:30ish miles. Felt good on the run but hip sore later in the evening carrying a tired little boy.

Sunday: Recovery 4.12m @8:48. Out at dawn again with the intention of a longer one. However the hip was in a jock. Hobbled through the first 2m hoping it would loosen but it was sore even after a good stretch. Turned and hobbled back to the hotel. Physio booked for Wednesday so hope he finds the trigger point as I want to build the miles up to the start of the plan.

Overall 38m of mostly super enjoyable running.
Swim in the med later and long stretches on the beach after I turn Zoe into a sand mermaid.

Wubble Wubble

Pretty good week overall, hope the hip is ok.

Fair play trying progression runs over there. I've run between PDC and Pocillos a few times on previous trips, and I've never tried anything other than easy, even starting at 7:30 AM!

shotgunmcos

Monday 10 June
Easy AB 9.6m @7:57 (AB is Easy Start and Steady finish), HR 134 avg

Out just before dawn again under clouds along the Playa Blanca Prom. I headed East first up onto the main road and up a long hill into the wind. It was rather boring so I jumped down onto a rocky beach for some quick sandy trails and then back onto the prom. Mainly cats lazily looking at the few runners unimpressed. No sun but lovely to run with the sound of crashing waves.

Tuesday 11 June
8.1m as 2m Easy, 5m Progression, 1m Easy, HR 139-168

Out and back to the light house again. Warm and windy early morning. Planned a little work so after a couple of easy miles I pushed on the next 5m in 7:43, 7:23, 6:50, 6:31, 5:58. I was surprised to see that split on that last mile as there was a hill to negotiate. I was working hard for it so felt like a good split for the effort. A short warm down to get back for a long relaxed breakfast. Last run on hols was a good one. My hip was a bit sore later walking through airports though

Wednesday 12 June
Physio - Dry Needling the Glute Med - Ouch! He prescribed Glute strengthening exercises so I need to get the S&C going regularly. Advised 2 days off too as it would be tender.

Thursday 13 June
Day off on Physio's orders. Needed it as it was achy

Friday 14 June
Steady 7.53m @7:34 in the pouring rain!

The hip/Glute felt ok, still a little tender but better. Out before 7 for this and it was raining. The rain then got heavier and heavier. I was saturated! It was wet enough to be jumping over or stepping around puddles. I was also cold but focused on improving my cadence. On average I'd be at 165 but managed to hold 175 this morning in miserable conditions, welcome back to Ireland! Planning a longer run with my sub3 run buddy Niall on Sunday.

shotgunmcos

Saturday 15 June
8.73m Easy AB @8:18

The first 3m were very easy dragging a reluctant teenager around a local loop. Heading into Junior Cup Rugby year so some aerobic stuff while they get into the gym over the summer. Dropped him panting at the door then pushed on to a progressively steady effort around town. It was very muggy and my own legs felt reluctant to participate. The Thomond swim was on in the river so a lap of the quay watching that from the bank distracted me for a mile or so No significant effort in this run but I felt wrecked afterwards.

Sunday 16 June
Happy Fathers Day to all the early morning Daddy runners!
12.37m LR with some progression with my buddy Niall

Beautiful morning for a run and first run with N since the marathon. The easy miles flew by around town catching up then into some work. 5m progressing from 7:30 pace to 6:30 pace. I had planned another mile at 6:15 but we were both feeling it, me more so. I found the 6:30 mile a real effort. As we ran easy back up town my hips and glutes were pretty tight as they were yesterday. I think it could be down to my focus on cadence.

Looking at options for new shoes I noticed the wear pattern on my current pairs. Interesting that there is a lot of wear on the outside heel even though I don't consciously heel strike. I'm pretty sure I start out midfoot but as I tire I fall back onto my heel rather than landing on my heel. This is down to form. My weak glutes not holding me up there, my hips sinking back etc.. My cadence is usually in the 160-164 range. I've been pushing for 170 average this week and its bringing my whole form up and forward slightly as I engage my glutes to do more work. Interesting that I felt better at higher paces but maintaining a shorter stride to keep the cadence up at slower paces is challenging. In summary my hips, glutes and quads are all adapting and I'm assuming that's why I feel so stiff.

On the shoes both the Nike Pegegus 35 and NB 880v8 have 280m and 340m respectively. After just 2 runs with the Nikes the last 2 days I have blisters on my toes. They are just too narrow. The NB are a wide fit and lovely all round shoe but not helping to improve my form. I need to bring a lighter shoe into rotation that helps to keep me on the front foot for general mileage (Leaning towards the Boston 7s for these) and I need to replace the Nikes with some alternative for tempo and speed, that are less cinderalla like. Maybe one of the lighter NB shoes as they do wide sizes...hmmm

Overall 46m for the week over 5x runs which is alright. I move onto the plan next week, or rather the planned 2 base weeks prelude. I also need to get the mat out and get the S&C done.

skyblue46

Interesting thoughts on the cadence. What benefits do you feel are to be gained by getting closer to the 180 range than your current rate? Or perhaps more importantly what do you think the negative impacts have been of having the 160-164 cadence rate?

Swashbuckler

Would you consider Drills, hill reps etc to improve form and cadence rather than trying to consciously think about it?

shotgunmcos

skyblue46 wrote: »

Interesting thoughts on the cadence. What benefits do you feel are to be gained by getting closer to the 180 range than your current rate? Or perhaps more importantly what do you think the negative impacts have been of having the 160-164 cadence rate?

The lower rate and longer stride is sinking my hip and running 'shorter' putting more load per stride. These are assumptions and from pics of my running form. It puts more pressure on the stabilising glute. When that's under pressure it drags in the hip, quad and calf. So often I've gone to physios with calf, hammer or hip issue and the root cause is weak glutes. I invariably come away with exercises to strengten the glutes. The higher cadence has been a challenge for me as I'm top heavy. I tend to push it with my arms and shoulders rather than engage my glutes.

shotgunmcos

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Would you consider Drills, hill reps etc to improve form and cadence rather than trying to consciously think about it?

You know what I considered hill reps. My hips/glutes feel better driving up a hill than down them due to the same glute stabilising effect I mentioned in the other post.

However drills no. Last time I did those was when I ran track for a bit in college! S&C, hills, drills.. many ways to skin a cat I guess. Any drill recommendations? I'm going to try and get to a club speed session once a week soon. I've seen guys n gals doing drills in the warm up to speed reps there before. (Joe Chawkes Tuesday UL track session)

skyblue46

shotgunmcos wrote: »

The lower rate and longer stride is sinking my hip and running 'shorter' putting more load per stride. These are assumptions and from pics of my running form. It puts more pressure on the stabilising glute. When that's under pressure it drags in the hip, quad and calf. So often I've gone to physios with calf, hammer or hip issue and the root cause is weak glutes. I invariably come away with exercises to strengten the glutes. The higher cadence has been a challenge for me as I'm top heavy. I tend to push it with my arms and shoulders rather than engage my glutes.

The reason I ask is not for my own benefit. I tip around at in or about 180 most of the time. 172/174 on very easy runs, 180 for most of a 5k and about 200 for the sprint finish. I've been following someone on Strava who has a rate of 155. They get occasional leg niggles and had a legs failure at 20 miles in DCM, their first marathon. My little bit of research suggests that the effort needed to propel the body so far in a stride places unneeded stress on the legs. I just don't know if I'm right or should mention my thoughts to him.

shotgunmcos

skyblue46 wrote: »

The reason I ask is not for my own benefit. I tip around at in or about 180 most of the time. 172/174 on very easy runs, 180 for most of a 5k and about 200 for the sprint finish. I've been following someone on Strava who has a rate of 155. They get occasional leg niggles and had a legs failure at 20 miles in DCM, their first marathon. My little bit of research suggests that the effort needed to propel the body so far in a stride places unneeded stress on the legs. I just don't know if I'm right or should mention my thoughts to him.

155 wow, I feel like I'm plodding at 160 and certainly sitting back more. 155 heel striking perhaps? Kenyan strides propel them as far (due to the speed) but they are still clipping along at 180+ despite making it look so much more relaxed. Whats the harm in saying it to him?