Peter Casey's beliefs of Travellers' ethnicity Part II

DChancer

Edgware wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

...by essentially attacking a marginalised community. That is easy to do. Ask any DUPer or UKIP voter about that tactic.

We knew (see my pre-election posts) there was a percentage of people who have this prejudice and bias. Casey succeeded in getting some of them off their backsides to a polling station...whoop de doop. :rolleyes:

He didn't attack anyone. He simply pointed out the ridiculous situation in Thurles while people are homeless all over the country.
It just suits the usual spas to try and label him racist

Anyone who uses a term as disgusting as "spas" is not wlrd paying any attention to though probably typifies the mentality of the average Casey voter.

Plumbthedepths

DChancer wrote:

Anyone who uses a term as disgusting as "spas" is not wlrd paying any attention to though probably typifies the mentality of the average Casey voter.

There is no average Casey voter as evidenced by where he got votes from and what areas.

tretorn

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He did win a landslide if you stay within the confines of those who voted.

You guys are bandying about 23% as if it was 23% of the electorate. It isn't. It is 10% of the electorate and 23% of the the 43% that voted.

A 43% which also happens to be the lowest ever turnout at a Presidential election.
Which kinda chills the wheels on talk of 'revolution', or 'mobilisation' of those '90%' who it is claimed 'know what Casey was talking about, really...nudge nudge wink wink'

If that is all that turned out - 10% of the electorate - the powers that be have feck all to be worried about tbh.

Its not ten per cent of anything, its a huge vote and in a General election Peter Casey could win a seat.

Most of the comments on this thread are anti traveller lifestyle, its the same with comments read out when radio hosts covered Pete Casey. The radio hosts in some cases admitted to being taken aback at the numbers who voted and emailed in support of Casey, he said himself he was going to pull out but didnt when mountains of emails arrived in support of him.

Anyone proposing that we should ignore the 347,000 who texted is not facing reality.

tayto lover

DChancer wrote: »

Anyone who uses a term as disgusting as "spas" is not wlrd paying any attention to though probably typifies the mentality of the average Casey voter.

You were going well and rightfully so and then you threw it all away.

Plumbthedepths

tayto lover wrote:

You were going well and rightfully so and then you threw it all away.

In fairness he threw it all away when he claimed Casey was a foreigner and wants the constitution changed to stop people like Casey seeking public office. We even had a referendum that included recognition of the Irishness of people born in NI.

7aubzxk43m2sni

Omackeral wrote: »

I think it's gas that the same poster automatically just thanks their post each and every time, regardless of content, even if it's something mundane or irrelevant. Sad or weird?

Who are you referring to?

Rory28

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He did win a landslide if you stay within the confines of those who voted.

You guys are bandying about 23% as if it was 23% of the electorate. It isn't. It is 10% of the electorate and 23% of the the 43% that voted.

A 43% which also happens to be the lowest ever turnout at a Presidential election.
Which kinda chills the wheels on talk of 'revolution', or 'mobilisation' of those '90%' who it is claimed 'know what Casey was talking about, really...nudge nudge wink wink'

If that is all that turned out - 10% of the electorate - the powers that be have feck all to be worried about tbh.

How do you keep dismissing the 23%? That is kingmaker numbers.

FrancieBrady

Rory28 wrote: »

How do you keep dismissing the 23%? That is kingmaker numbers.

Sitting in a house in Donegal trying to shoehorn yourself into political parties that don't want you, is not my idea of a 'kingmaker'.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sitting in a house in Donegal trying to shoehorn yourself into political parties that don't want you, is not my idea of a 'kingmaker'.

So, extrapolating from that, BREADMAN, who you spent many long hours on the keyboard defending is your idea of a ‘kingmaker’.

Rory28

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sitting in a house in Donegal trying to shoehorn yourself into political parties that don't want you, is not my idea of a 'kingmaker'.

Your idea of a kingmaker is irrelevant. 23% could make or break a major party.

Roger Hassenforder

Rory28 wrote: »

Your idea of a kingmaker is irrelevant. 23% could make or break a major party.

Shinners would actually śh1t themselves with 23% first preferences.
We'd never hear the end of it

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You guys are bandying about 23% as if it was 23% of the electorate. It isn't. It is 10% of the electorate and 23% of the the 43% that voted.

[...]

If that is all that turned out - 10% of the electorate - the powers that be have feck all to be worried about tbh.

You don't seem to understand statistical sampling. On election night, RTE carried out an exit poll of just 3,500 people and got a pretty close indication of how the electorate as a whole voted. A sample of 43% of the electorate could be seen as providing an much higher level of accuracy -- given that the margin of error depends inversely on the square root of the sample size.

You're warbling on as if just 10% of the electorate supported Casey, which is completely wrongheaded. If every eligible citizen in the country had voted, the statistical likelihood is that Casey's support would have remained around 23%.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

FrancieBrady wrote: »

...by essentially attacking a marginalised community.

Would that be the same "marginalized community" that frequently attacks and terrorizes people around the country, and that often displays complete disregard for the laws and norms of civilized society?

I'm just trying to work out how Casey has "attacked" the Travellers here, when the latter are often the ones seen wreaking havoc around the nation.

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

What makes someone ethnically a Traveller, as opposed to just Irish?

oceanman wrote: »

the government..

The only answer I've really gotten since asking this. Literally nobody seems to know what makes them ethnically different.

Omackeral

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's 23% of 46% of the electorate that turned out to elect a president.

It's 23% (read:almost 1 in 4) of 100% of who voted. That's the relevant statistic at the end of the day. The jump from 2% to 23% is staggering if you want to discuss peripheral numbers though.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

...by essentially attacking a marginalised community. That is easy to do. Ask any DUPer or UKIP voter about that tactic.

We knew (see my pre-election posts) there was a percentage of people who have this prejudice and bias. Casey succeeded in getting some of them off their backsides to a polling station...whoop de doop. :rolleyes:

How did Casey attack a marginalised community?

Did he try to bomb them back to the mainland as others tried with a different community?

demanufactured

Omackeral wrote: »

The only answer I've really gotten since asking this. Literally nobody seems to know what makes them ethnically different.

They are not, they are the same as you or I.

JP Liz V1

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sitting in a house in Donegal trying to shoehorn yourself into political parties that don't want you, is not my idea of a 'kingmaker'.

Does he live in Ireland, I thought he was US based

tretorn

demanufactured wrote: »

They are not, they are the same as you or I.

Ahem, sorry but no, I am very different to the average traveller.

My grndparents didnt finish secondary school my parents did but neiter went to third level. I have two siblings and we all finished second level but didnt go onto third level. We have nine children between us and of those finished school all have gone to third level and the others have ambition to go on to Third level too.

My grandparents and parents had very little money but still put all their children through school and didnt get hand outs from anyone. We had very little materially but my parents didnt shop lift for clothes or anything else for us.

I know that we can go on for ever about the travellers having a terrible time but realistically how hard can it be for them to go on the housing list and pay rent and get their children to school. We have migrants arriving in with only the clothes are on their backs and coming from much worse situations than young travellers have come from and yet they seem to function ok here if given asylum.

Is it the case that there are special educational needs in the travelling community, if there are its probably pretty pointless for them to remain in education past the leaving cert, it might be better for them to leave at sixteen and learn a trade. And, no, by trade I dont mean making pots and pans and shooing horses, I mean a trade like carpentry, or woodwork or painting.

Has anyone studied the IQ of the travellers as a group, they all seem to intermarry so it actually wouldnt be that difficult to get an average IQ and then see does it fall far below the standard IQ of the general population.

Having watched the video of the brawl in Galway its fair to say the adults behaviour fell far short of normal behaviour expected of grown adults but if the adults are special needs then excuses probably can be made.

MrMusician18

tretorn wrote: »

Ahem, sorry but no, I am very different to the average traveller.

My grndparents didnt finish secondary school my parents did but neiter went to third level. I have two siblings and we all finished second level but didnt go onto third level. We have nine children between us and of those finished school all have gone to third level and the others have ambition to go on to Third level too.

My grandparents and parents had very little money but still put all their children through school and didnt get hand outs from anyone. We had very little materially but my parents didnt shop lift for clothes or anything else for us.

I know that we can go on for ever about the travellers having a terrible time but realistically how hard can it be for them to go on the housing list and pay rent and get their children to school. We have migrants arriving in with only the clothes are on their backs and coming from much worse situations than young travellers have come from and yet they seem to function ok here if given asylum.

Is it the case that there are special educational needs in the travelling community, if there are its probably pretty pointless for them to remain in education past the leaving cert, it might be better for them to leave at sixteen and learn a trade. And, no, by trade I dont mean making pots and pans and shooing horses, I mean a trade like carpentry, or woodwork or painting.

Has anyone studied the IQ of the travellers as a group, they all seem to intermarry so it actually wouldnt be that difficult to get an average IQ and then see does it fall far below the standard IQ of the general population.

Having watched the video of the brawl in Galway its fair to say the adults behaviour fell far short of normal behaviour expected of grown adults but if the adults are special needs then excuses probably can be made.

They are more likely to be specially indulged than special needs tbh.

end of the road

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Your commentary us getting more shrill the longer you keep this up. I notice the language you are using is getting more insulting and emotive trying to illicit an actionable response methinks. On another thread you accuse Casey of hate mongering and claiming he wants to set up concentration camps. You really are becoming a laughing stock. As for the 10 per cent it's not, it's 23 per cent . Your voice only counts when you use it. You continually engage in that nasty behaviour you accuse without proof I may add the 23 per cent of engaging in.
You really need to take a step back it's you is becoming pathetic.

casey was hate mongering. hate mongering to get votes because he knew he would get some. when one makes generalisations about a whole group of people based on the actions of some, that is hate mongering.
23% of the voters in the election doesn't equate to 23% of the whole population. the whole population didn't vote in this election.

Calhoun wrote: »

Bridget Kelly from the Galway traveller group on newstalk just now foaming at the mouth, wanting the conversation on travelers shut down for good by bringing in hate speech legislation.

Obviously when pushed on any hard topic about her community its always the same old deflection and throwing it back onto the settle community. Essentially they want to be untouchable but not have to answer for their own crimes.

Net-net the relationship between settled and travelers probably wont get better.

travelers like everyone else, answer for their crimes in a court of law if the evidence can be got to bring a case.

tretorn wrote: »

If there was the slightest acknowlegment from travellers about why people are afraid of them then those people who voted for Peter Casey might take some of what travellers have to say on board.

somehow, i very much doubt it.

mickdw wrote: »

Casey wants equality.
No more than travellers getting same welfare and housing as settled people.
Abide by the law of the land same as settled people.
If all was equal, we would have animal cruelty people visiting many traveller camps and removing animals. We would have child welfare staff visiting frequently due to attendance records etc,
we would have welfare / revenue inspectors spot checking, auditing and cutting welfare where undeclared cash businesses are found to be operating.
I would like to see a settled person draw full welfare then put a new van on the road selling random gear all over the country and see how long before a revenue official would come knocking. It would not be too long and rightly so.
Travellers don't have to worry about such problems.
Driving a new van and getting a free house does not compute. It cannot even be argued to be a tool of the trade as they are officially not working so how does that work?
Maybe it's that special status they have. Either that or the outright fear authority has of them.

casey wants equality except in terms of taxation. we have to pay our taxes but he doesn't have to pay any in this country. no thanks.
travelers get the same wellfare and housing as settled people unless the council decide otherwise, which i'd think they rarely do decide otherwise. plenty of settled people don't abide by the law, so the police numbers should be increased, and the justice system should be reformed, to insure people abide by the laws whether traveler or settled. we don't have enough animal cruelty people, child wellfare staff, wellfare/revenue inspectors etc, hence only some people will get visits from those people, because they can't get to everyone. + if travelers are nomadic, then they can be gone in a flash meaning the process starts all over again, which will cost. unless you are willing to pay higher taxes, then this isn't going to change. some settled people are drawing the wellfare and working, it has been going on for years and some are getting away with it. the recognition of their ethnicity does not allow them to get out of, or protect them from, the consiquences of breaking the rules. it's not a special status they have, but an equal status with the recognition of their ethnicity.

tretorn

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/pat-kenny-objects-to-apartment-block-next-to-his-dalkey-home-1.3688490

This is more of the not in my back yard stuff. You cant put an apartment block beside me because someone might be able to look in my bedrrom window and a shadow might fall on my patio. Pat like Tubridy has been making a packet out of talking about the housing crisis and the solutions to it, ie higher density housing and then when developers propose to stick a high density development in Killiney Pat writes a book to the council complaining about it. I wonder what portion of the proposed development is for social housing including housing for travellers.

Are there any halting sites in Killiney.

KrustyUCC

Do as I say not as I do

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Quite clear from those figures that SF vote held from the initial poll and survived Casey going from 1% ~ 23%

This was a disaster of an election for Sinn Fein, anyone who says differently is living in cloud cuckoo land, but will get a thanks from the silent poster.

323,300 votes in the European elections in 2014.
242,030 votes in the Presidential election for Martin McGuinness in 2011 (but there was a whiff around him).
93,987 for Liadh Ni Riadha.


By any standards, that is a disastorous slide. Not quite the elimination of the Labour Party, but an awful awful electoral performance. The boys in Belfast won't be pleased.

tretorn

That looks like a fine site beside Pat, why dont the council go in and CPO it.

You could definitely put a five bay halting site in there.

Omackeral

Briella Tender Shark wrote: »

Who are you referring to?

Literally look at any FrancieBrady post and you'll get your answer. Actually, look at who thanked your own post... odd.

end of the road

Idbatterim wrote: »

That is entirely different, stop talking crap. Casey wasn’t trying to be inflammatory, he was asked a question and replied with the answer that hundreds of thousands of us would have! I don’t understand the furore, the entire media and political system here is on the left, what’s the problem with another voice, a moderate one in my opinion. Does it scare you or cause offence?

he generalised in the aim of getting votes. that is certainly being inflammatory. the entire political system and media is not on the left, there is a mix of left and right but mostly centrist. there is just little to no demand for far right or ultra-right politics. as for casey being a "moderate" voice, nope.

Idbatterim wrote: »

In fairness he got the bit about the banana republic right. Our shower of morons here are laughable ... over there their politicians are of a far higher standard and will actually take positions, unlike our shower of populist wasters here!

their governments are much better at selling out and screwing over their own people and blaming it on everyone else as well, so frankly as much as we have lots of problems, i'd take our republic over britain any day.

Plumbthedepths

end of the road wrote:

casey was hate mongering. hate mongering to get votes because he knew he would get some. when one makes generalisations about a whole group of people based on the actions of some, that is hate mongering. 23% of the voters in the election doesn't equate to 23% of the whole population. the whole population didn't vote in this election.

Hate mongering? Care to back it up with something more than just your opinion, prehaps some evidence.
The voter turnout and the polling percentage was dealt with comprehensively by a more informed poster than me. Maybe have a read back. Just as I like to point out inaccuracies to your buddy I will do the same with you. I never said the whole population voted. I assume though you have heard of polls.

MrMusician18

end of the road wrote: »

casey was hate mongering. hate mongering to get votes because he knew he would get some. when one makes generalisations about a whole group of people based on the actions of some, that is hate mongering.
23% of the voters in the election doesn't equate to 23% of the whole population. the whole population didn't vote in this election.



travelers like everyone else, answer for their crimes in a court of law if the evidence can be got to bring a case.



somehow, i very much doubt it.



casey wants equality except in terms of taxation. we have to pay our taxes but he doesn't have to pay any in this country. no thanks.
travelers get the same wellfare and housing as settled people unless the council decide otherwise, which i'd think they rarely do decide otherwise. plenty of settled people don't abide by the law, so the police numbers should be increased, and the justice system should be reformed, to insure people abide by the laws whether traveler or settled. we don't have enough animal cruelty people, child wellfare staff, wellfare/revenue inspectors etc, hence only some people will get visits from those people, because they can't get to everyone. + if travelers are nomadic, then they can be gone in a flash meaning the process starts all over again, which will cost. unless you are willing to pay higher taxes, then this isn't going to change. some settled people are drawing the wellfare and working, it has been going on for years and some are getting away with it. the recognition of their ethnicity does not allow them to get out of, or protect them from, the consiquences of breaking the rules. it's not a special status they have, but an equal status with the recognition of their ethnicity.

That argument might stack up if travellers were truly nomadic, but many stay in encampments for years, not to mention those that have semi permanent housing on state provided halting sites.

The real reason no enforcement action is taken is because it's too difficult and dangerous for ordinary civilian animal welfare officers to go into these sites.

You really would need the ERU or ranger wing as back up to go into some of these sites.

Cessna_Pilot

end of the road wrote: »

hence only some people will get visits from those people, because they can't get to everyone. + if travelers are nomadic, then they can be gone in a flash meaning the process starts all over again, which will cost

Same theory could be applied to rural homeowners.