Peter Casey's beliefs of Travellers' ethnicity Part II

Cupatae

Why dont they cut the nonsense, and pandering and actually bring out the facts that they dont want to hear, alot of travellers got there reputations for good reasons, people didnt wake up one morning and randomly decided to dislike them the prejudice a lot of them are complaining about has been well earned by a large part of that community... and yet that is just brushed under the rug and ignored for the sake of political correctness and pandering for votes.

The whole "theres good and bad in every community" doesnt fly with me but it seems to be taken at face value alot of the time and is a go too response, while that is a true statement one could argue there seems to be an epidemic of bad in this community compared to most other communities, these opinions dont just spring up from the ground without any truth at all there is a reason so many people hold the same opinion of the travelling community.

The governments effort to help them should be mirrored by there own effort to help themselves.

Spanish Eyes

I really do not understand the total media bias in favour of Travellers.

For sure they are not all bad (small number), but the criminality, entitlement, litter throwing, animal cruelty, misogyny, education for the kids way down the list, and scamming is endemic. They know they can get away with it. That is the reality.

Ethnic status conveys nothing. I am ethnic Irish. Not that anyone cares.

Traveller ethnicity must bring entitlement and money. Does it?

Plumbthedepths

Captain Obvious wrote:

But you're talking about a group of people who are heavily involved in burglary and theft. Why do you think they won't just turn to crime to replace that income?

Refusing to send your child to school can also involve a custodial sentence. The laws are there. They need to be enforced. The cycle needs to be broken.

maxwell smart

I know it was inevitable with such an emotive topic but it seems that both sides of this debate are getting further and further apart.

On one side of the spectrum there is the 'Travellers are all roving bands of thieves, who can't work because they are too busy defrauding the welfare, beating up their spouses, making very poor quality documentaries on their home made fight clubs and organising very flashy communions / weddings etc' people.

On the other side are the 'Travellers never did me a days harm, are an ethnic minority, shouldn't be held to the same rules as the rest of us, marrying their cousins is what they do, no problem with them taking their kids out of education as early as possible, everyone is racist who doesn't agree with me' gang.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle.
There is a large number of them (a majority? I don't know) who are severely disadvantaged. Poor access to education, lack of basic sanitation, malnourishment, high suicide rate, large numbers in prison...all classic signs of being educationally disadvantaged. The only way these are going to become valuable members and contributors is by helping them get that education. I can't believe anyone would question or indeed begrudge them that help.
Then there is the section that carry out severe anti-social behaviour. Drug pushing, extortion, theft, social welfare fraud, intimidation. Again I'm sure that nobody would condone any of that behaviour.

The difficulty is that the anti-social section of this community are much more visible than the other section.

I grew up in a part of Dublin which has a high concentration of travellers and have never had anything but bad experiences with them. But I don't assume that they are all the same. I've grown up a bit maybe. I still wouldn't want any living next door to me, their values are different from mine and we wouldn't be able to get along. That's the truth.

What's needed and what Casey has put on the national agenda, is a frank and open discussion between both communities on how to develop and grow those travellers who want to become members of this society we all like in in Ireland, and how to deal with the criminal element in that community.

If Casey has done anything, he has brought that discussion out into the open, because when thoughts and feelings are hidden away, they fester, become bad, and ripe for exploitation.

So for those who think Casey is the Anti-Christ, and those who think he is the second coming of the Messiah. He's neither, and both.

Edward M

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Like all the entitlements across the state. They apply to many groups of people and individuals.

We set the republic up this way.
And some people will abuse those entitlements and welfare. But not all people do.
And yes travellers have a lot of them.

Look fair enough, I enjoyed our chat today.
I'm pulling out here, because there is a different element in this thread than I want to be associated with, other stuff coming in I'm not happy intermingling with.
I'm not against travellers to the extent of wanting them exterminated, I just want them treated by govt the same as anyone else and entitled to nothing more or less.
To be classed as only Irish and nothing ethnically special and if I speak my mind not to be called racist because of it, I have had many issues with them and have my reasons for believing as I do.
But I see other stuff appearing now I don't agree with.

DChancer

shady acres wrote: »

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

RTE and Tubridy must be reading Boards and trolling us now. Anyone remember that Chinese Green Party candidate that went on a looney rant about her friend voting Casey.

https://twitter.com/hazechu/status/1059504369513779201

wow how ungrateful
she should be given a one way ticket back to her third world ****hole

No more ungrateful than Casey
They are both immigrants that hold Irish Citizenship but at least she pays her taxes here unlike that scroungers Casey

Plumbthedepths

tretorn wrote:

But we have been having this same conversation since Margaret Cash was born and look wheres its got us. It has resulted in one of the most entitled people to ever get up on two legs screaming about the gubbermint doing nothing.

I believed she claimed the gubbermint was robbing her by giving her 52k of taxpayers money. Not sure she understands what robbed means and yes I get how ironic that is considering some of the convictions she has.

tretorn

shady acres wrote: »

no wonder padraig nally had to seek his own justice
the judges in this country would have left him to his fate with the travelling gangs

Poor Padraig Nally was driven completely insane.

He hadnt had a nights sleep in months what will waiting for his visitors to call, he was so frightened he ended up sleeping in a shed, anyone with a shotgun would eventually use it in those circumstances.

Another poor old man got visitors too, he cycled thirty miles in the middle of the night to a nursing home and he never went back home again.

I was pretty intimidated watching that brawl in Galway and I am a hundred miles from there and watched it on my laptop. I cant imagine what it must be like to see that bringing your children home from school, you would like to think the people involved in it would be brought to justice, is there any sign of that happening.

What a stupid question to ask.

tayto lover

I actually love ethnic communities particularly the Poles. They work hard and rarely commit crime. You would hardly notice them in a pub, at a wedding or a funeral. Nice friendly people too.

tayto lover

DChancer wrote: »

No more ungrateful than Casey
They are both immigrants that hold Irish Citizenship but at least she pays her taxes here unlike that scroungers Casey

Ah go easy on poor Margaret. She gets a hard time in here.

end of the road

tayto lover wrote: »

Did you expect those people to say anything else?
They're under orders obviously. Casey must be stopped at all costs. Imagine if the electorate started voting differently. What would those main parties do?

who are they under orders from? matt cooper works for a private radio station.

shady acres

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I really do not understand the total media bias in favour of Travellers.

For sure they are not all bad (small number), but the criminality, entitlement, litter throwing, animal cruelty, misogyny, education for the kids way down the list, and scamming is endemic. They know they can get away with it. That is the reality.

Ethnic status conveys nothing. I am ethnic Irish. Not that anyone cares.

Traveller ethnicity must bring entitlement and money. Does it?

the only hope is the like of tubridy, darcy, ciara kelly jenifer zapatista and co and their families get a taste of cocaine fuelled traveler rampage
only then will they change their tune

FrancieBrady

maxwell smart wrote: »

I know it was inevitable with such an emotive topic but it seems that both sides of this debate are getting further and further apart.

On one side of the spectrum there is the 'Travellers are all roving bands of thieves, who can't work because they are too busy defrauding the welfare, beating up their spouses, making very poor quality documentaries on their home made fight clubs and organising very flashy communions / weddings etc' people.

On the other side are the 'Travellers never did me a days harm, are an ethnic minority, shouldn't be held to the same rules as the rest of us, marrying their cousins is what they do, no problem with them taking their kids out of education as early as possible, everyone is racist who doesn't agree with me' gang.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle.
There is a large number of them (a majority? I don't know) who are severely disadvantaged. Poor access to education, lack of basic sanitation, malnourishment, high suicide rate, large numbers in prison...all classic signs of being educationally disadvantaged. The only way these are going to become valuable members and contributors is by helping them get that education. I can't believe anyone would question or indeed begrudge them that help.
Then there is the section that carry out severe anti-social behaviour. Drug pushing, extortion, theft, social welfare fraud, intimidation. Again I'm sure that nobody would condone any of that behaviour.

The difficulty is that the anti-social section of this community are much more visible than the other section.

I grew up in a part of Dublin which has a high concentration of travellers and have never had anything but bad experiences with them. But I don't assume that they are all the same. I've grown up a bit maybe. I still wouldn't want any living next door to me, their values are different from mine and we wouldn't be able to get along. That's the truth.

What's needed and what Casey has put on the national agenda, is a frank and open discussion between both communities on how to develop and grow those travellers who want to become members of this society we all like in in Ireland, and how to deal with the criminal element in that community.

If Casey has done anything, he has brought that discussion out into the open, because when thoughts and feelings are hidden away, they fester, become bad, and ripe for exploitation.

So for those who think Casey is the Anti-Christ, and those who think he is the second coming of the Messiah. He's neither, and both.

Casey has put any chance of that rational discussion back years.

Why? Because in a cheap political stunt he has given oxygen to a voice that will never accept anything but their terms. The voice of prejudice and hate with no small amount of ignorance of the real issues.

Some of them won't even go to google to inform themselves and demand answers that they should know.

Spanish Eyes

shady acres wrote: »

the only hope is the like of tubridy, darcy, ciara kelly jenifer zapatista and co and their families get a taste of cocaine fuelled traveler rampage
only then will they change their tune

Seriously though.

I really hope those who have had to deal with degenerate Travellers preying on the vulnerable will be able to fight back with a voice who might speak for them.

It may not be Casey, but someone else taking on the baton.

Otherwise rural people will live in fear for ever more. That is awful.

givyjoe

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Casey has put any chance of that rational discussion back years.

Why? Because in a cheap political stunt he has given oxygen to a voice that will never accept anything but their terms. The voice of prejudice and hate with no small amount of ignorance of the real issues.

Some of them won't even go to google to inform themselves and demand answers that they should know.

Sorry, but that is absolute and utter nonsense. He did nothing of the sort and the gripes that vast majority of the people (i.e. average joes) who have gripes with travellers, do not hold such views out of prejudice or ignorance, its simply experience.

As for the real issues, what you really mean is the excuses thrown out to justify unjustifiable behaviour.

Captain Obvious

tretorn wrote: »

But we have been having this same conversation since Margaret Cash was born and look wheres its got us. It has resulted in one of the most entitled people to ever get up on two legs screaming about the gubbermint doing nothing.

Don't think being a traveller has much to do with that though. She'd still be entitled. We've seen sob stories from non travellers too.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Refusing to send your child to school can also involve a custodial sentence. The laws are there. They need to be enforced. The cycle needs to be broken.

See you are looking at this from a perspective of what would work on you. Criminal records don't bother travellers. And what happens when they are in prison? Kids go into care? Still won't go to school. I agree the cycle needs to be broken and education is key. I just don't think your stick approach is going to be effective on it's own.

Spanish Eyes

shady acres wrote: »

the only hope is the like of tubridy, darcy, ciara kelly jenifer zapatista and co and their families get a taste of cocaine fuelled traveler rampage
only then will they change their tune

They are the quintessential so called SJWs. All talk for others, and no problems for them.

shady acres

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Seriously though.

I really hope those who have had to deal with degenerate Travellers preying on the vulnerable will be able to fight back with a voice who might speak for them.

It may not be Casey, but someone else taking on the baton.

Otherwise rural people will live in fear for ever more. That is awful.

lets be honest here
the status quo is the traveler gangs can raid you 24/7
if they are caught and free legal aid defends them they will get a suspended sentence from a traitor judge
or you go full padraig nally
there is no middle ground

maxwell smart

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Casey has put any chance of that rational discussion back years.

Why? Because in a cheap political stunt he has given oxygen to a voice that will never accept anything but their terms. The voice of prejudice and hate with no small amount of ignorance of the real issues.

Some of them won't even go to google to inform themselves and demand answers that they should know.

But playing devils advocate here, the side opposite to Casey's views will never accept anything other than their viewpoint. So they are just as entrenched in their view and stopping any proper discussion on the issues.

shady acres

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

They are the quintessential so called SJWs. All talk for others, and no problems for them.

well it's against my good nature but i really hope tubridy and his loved ones get the snot beat out of them by a traveller gang

Plumbthedepths

DChancer wrote:

No more ungrateful than Casey They are both immigrants that hold Irish Citizenship but at least she pays her taxes here unlike that scroungers Casey

You need to educate yourself on the tax arrangements for free card holders and dual taxation treaties.

Plumbthedepths

*green card holder.

Spanish Eyes

shady acres wrote: »

lets be honest here
the status quo is the traveler gangs can raid you 24/7
if they are caught and free legal aid defends them they will get a suspended sentence from a traitor judge
or you go full padraig nally
there is no middle ground

I would be of the opinion that most of them never come within a mile of court.

We are talking of those who do. And judges really need to send out a message I agree. But seems to me they don't

Plumbthedepths

Captain Obvious wrote:

See you are looking at this from a perspective of what would work on you. Criminal records don't bother travellers. And what happens when they are in prison? Kids go into care? Still won't go to school. I agree the cycle needs to be broken and education is key. I just don't think your stick approach is going to be effective on it's own.

Well the carrot is an abysmal failure as figures from secondary and third level attendance can prove.

DChancer

shady acres wrote: »

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Seriously though.

I really hope those who have had to deal with degenerate Travellers preying on the vulnerable will be able to fight back with a voice who might speak for them.

It may not be Casey, but someone else taking on the baton.

Otherwise rural people will live in fear for ever more. That is awful.

lets be honest here
the status quo is the traveler gangs can raid you 24/7
if they are caught and free legal aid defends them they will get a suspended sentence from a traitor judge
or you go full padraig nally
there is no middle ground

Seldom if ever have I seen such utter bulls hit attempting to masquerade as fact.
A little less hyperbolic crap and a few more facts might help make your point appear reasoned.

Spanish Eyes

DChancer wrote: »

Seldom if ever have I seen such utter bulls hit attempting to masquerade as fact.
A little less hyperbolic crap and a few more facts might help make your point appear reasoned.

You referenced two posts there.

Which poster are you having a problem with.

I think you doth protest too much. :pac:

Captain Obvious

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Well the carrot is an abysmal failure as figures from secondary and third level attendance can prove.

Which carrot are you referring to?

Plumbthedepths

DChancer wrote:

Seldom if ever have I seen such utter bulls hit attempting to masquerade as fact. A little less hyperbolic crap and a few more facts might help make your point appear reasoned.

Hyperbolic? lol you described Casey as a megolomanic earlier.

Plumbthedepths

Captain Obvious wrote:

Which carrot are you referring to?

Social welfare. Rights also come with responsibility. As I said don't send your child to school no CB. Simple. There are numerous supports in schools for traveller children including home support.

Captain Obvious

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Social welfare. Rights also come with responsibility. As I said don't send your child to school no CB. Simple. There are numerous supports in schools for traveller children including home support.

Social welfare isn't unique to travellers though. It doesn't address the issues I raised. There are some supports for traveller children but they aren't effective.