Air BnB [and other platforms] to be effectively outlawed in high demand areas

L1011

For copyright reasons, no they can't

GalwayGaillimh

Basically legislation coming into effect on July 1st and zero grace period , Airbnb crying for a grace period due to bookings but falling on deaf ears..
Meant to be some sort of publicity about new law between now and July 1st

TheChizler

GalwayGaillimh wrote: »

Basically legislation coming into effect on July 1st and zero grace period , Airbnb crying for a grace period due to bookings but falling on deaf ears..
Meant to be some sort of publicity about new law between now and July 1st

How long have they known this was coming? The laws being broken aren't new, bit cheeky asking for a delay in commencing laws being written to enforce the existing ones.

They're basically saying we knew customers were breaking the law and they made commitments thinking they'd get away with it for longer.

Dav010

TheChizler wrote: »

How long have they known this was coming? The laws being broken aren't new, bit cheeky asking for a delay in commencing laws being written to enforce the existing ones.

They're basically saying we knew customers were breaking the law and they made commitments thinking they'd get away with it for longer.

Actually these laws being “ broken” are so new, that haven’t been enacted yet. How many times over the years have we heard that the Government was to bring forward legislation to improve something, only for it to disappear? It would have been foolish not to take bookings just because something might happen.

I’m pretty confident that apart from a few, rare prosecutions, this will make zero difference.

TheChizler

Dav010 wrote: »

Actually these laws being “ broken” are so new, that haven’t been enacted yet. How many times over the years have we heard that the Government was to bring forward legislation to improve something, only for it to disappear? It would have been foolish not to take bookings just because something might happen.

I'll have to read back in the thread but aren't there existing laws that prevent long running short term lets of entire properties without planning permission? Didn't Dublin City Council take someone to court over this a while back?

Dav010

TheChizler wrote: »

I'll have to read back in the thread but aren't there existing laws that prevent long running short term lets of entire properties without planning permission? Didn't Dublin City Council take someone to court over this a while back?

There are literally thousands of Airbnb’s in Dublin at the moment, so whatever existing legislation is there is making no difference. This new legislation is supposed to firm up the restrictions on short term rentals and provide for enforcement, but enforcement will be logistically very difficult so the odd court case is unlikely to have any effect.

As posted earlier, the guests have to be literally caught in the property, internet listing, nor hearsay (complaints by neighbors) will be enough for enforcement.

dealhunter1985

dealhunter1985 wrote: »

link is gated
can you copy and paste the article?

It’s just confirmed that July 1st is d day. However, some hosts who are letting a second property via AirBnB are claiming they don’t know what the new rules are and are continuing to accept bookings past July 1st. AirBnB wants a grace period.

TheChizler

Dav010 wrote: »

There are literally thousands of Airbnb’s in Dublin at the moment, so whatever existing legislation is there is making no difference. This new legislation is supposed to firm up the restrictions on short term rentals and provide for enforcement, but enforcement will be logistically very difficult so the odd court case is unlikely to have any effect.

I think this is the case I was thinking of. ABP not court. A property being used full-time for short-term lets constituted a change of use and required planning permission. This referres to a specific case but that kind of thing is repeated all over the place.

Whether this common violation is practically enforcable or will have an effect or not or not doesn't mean they weren't breaking the law. The new laws just make this more enforcable in RPZs, presumably they won't have to go to ABP first.

TheChizler

TheChizler wrote: »

I think this is the case I was thinking of. ABP not court. A property being used full-time for short-term lets constituted a change of use and required planning permission. This referres to a specific case but that kind of thing is repeated all over the place.

Whether this common violation is practically enforcable or will have an effect or not or not doesn't mean they weren't breaking the law. The new laws just make this more enforcable in RPZs, presumably they won't have to go to ABP first.

If whole properties are being let out via AirBnB, then they have to apply for change of use planning. It’s doubtful that they’ll get it as the properties were built as private dwellings.

LuckyLloyd

By asking for a grace period AirBnB confirm that the legislative changes are necessary and impactful.

Dav010

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

By asking for a grace period AirBnB confirm that the legislative changes are necessary and impactful.

How many Hosts have asked for a grace period? Not a one.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

How many Hosts have asked for a grace period? Not a one.

AirBnB has. They’re being more proactive than the hosts, who have known for some time that this was in the pipeline.

NoQuarter

Does anyone have the exact legislative details of this?

There was a Short-term Lettings Bill published in June of last year but on the Oireachtas website it seems to still be stuck at the Seanad. Was there some recent amendment to the Planning legislation, i.e. where is this July 1st date coming from? It needs to be written into law somewhere to be effective so I'm just trying to find that piece of legislation.

Or is it simply they have confirmed that the Short-term Lettings Bill 2018 is going to be enacted on 1 July?

wowy

NoQuarter wrote: »

Does anyone have the exact legislative details of this?

There was a Short-term Lettings Bill published in June of last year but on the Oireachtas website it seems to still be stuck at the Seanad. Was there some recent amendment to the Planning legislation, i.e. where is this July 1st date coming from? It needs to be written into law somewhere to be effective so I'm just trying to find that piece of legislation.

Or is it simply they have confirmed that the Short-term Lettings Bill 2018 is going to be enacted on 1 July?

I think it's the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2018?

Samuel T. Cogley

NoQuarter wrote: »

Does anyone have the exact legislative details of this?

There was a Short-term Lettings Bill published in June of last year but on the Oireachtas website it seems to still be stuck at the Seanad. Was there some recent amendment to the Planning legislation, i.e. where is this July 1st date coming from? It needs to be written into law somewhere to be effective so I'm just trying to find that piece of legislation.

Or is it simply they have confirmed that the Short-term Lettings Bill 2018 is going to be enacted on 1 July?

Jesus, haven't seen you around in a while. I hope this marks a boards.ie comeback. I think it's still in bill form.

Claw Hammer

wowy wrote: »

I think it's the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2018?

“Short term lettings
3A. (1) The use of a house or part of a house situated in a rent pressure zone
for short term letting purposes is a material change in use of the house
or part thereof, as the case may be.
(2) For the purposes of this section, the Minister may make regulations
requiring such persons as are specified in the regulations to provide a
planning authority with such information as may be so specified and at
such intervals as may be so specified in relation to short term lettings
in the administrative area of the planning authority.
(3) A person who contravenes a provision of regulations under this section
that is described in the regulations as a penal provision shall be guilty
of an offence and shall be liable, on summary conviction, to a class A
fine.
(4) This section shall not operate to abrogate or amend the law with
regard to—
(a) lettings (including short term lettings) outside a rent pressure zone,
or
(b) lettings (other than short term lettings) in a rent pressure zone.
42
5
10
15
20
25
30
35
40
(5) In this section—
‘rent pressure zone’ means—
(a) any area standing prescribed for the time being under section 24A
of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, or
(b) an administrative area deemed to be a rent pressure zone under
section 24B of that Act;
‘short term letting’ means the letting of a house or part of a house for
any period not exceeding 14 days, and includes a licence that permits
the licensee to enter and reside in the house or part thereof for any
such period in consideration of the making by any person (whether or
not the licensee) of a payment or payments to the licensor.”.

serfboard

wowy wrote: »

I think it's the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2018?

Since this has been passed by the Oireachtas, it is now the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2019, and can be read here.

NoQuarter

Thanks, looks to be the one. If so, it looks like at the moment they are just relying on it being a material change of use and outlawing it outright if you let the property for less than 14 days.

The Short Term Lettings bill went into much more detail so I wonder will that come into force at any point. It allowed for 90 day periods etc for your house while you travel etc etc.

NoQuarter

serfboard wrote: »

Since this has been passed by the Oireachtas, it is now the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2019, and can be read here.

I can't find the order enacting it. I presume that's what is going to be signed on 1 July then

NoQuarter

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Jesus, haven't seen you around in a while. I hope this marks a boards.ie comeback. I think it's still in bill form.

Needs must! you must have had a name change because I don't recognise the name!

tvjunki

I just had a quick look and the government must think landlords are loaded..E40 yearly to rtb and if late 10e per month. Then if the rtb board say you need to pay you have to give a reason why you do not.
I wonder if the Irish Reits pay this? Very much doubt it.

Then page 26 if someone wants to bring a case of improper conduct they can!! Big fines.

What about tenants??

Then prove a house by 7 points on the ber scale which is subjective at the best of times or increase the square footage of the house.

Also they have put in student accomodation as well as short term lettings.
This will not help the homeless it will make more landlords sell up or leave their properties empty if they have no mortgage.

I wonder will President Higgens actually read this or just sign it into law??

Very silly what they are doing..more homeless on the way...

Graham

Article in todays Indo discussing the changes:

[URL="
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/council-staff-to-track-airbnb-ads-to-block-breaches-of-new-rules-38163042.html"]Council staff to track Airbnb ads to block breaches of new rules[/URL]

Not much additional information but a couple of things do jump out:

Housing Minister Eoghan Murphy said it will be easy to detect rogue homeowners who breach the new rules.

People making their homes available for short-term letting will have to notify planning authorities of their intent to do so.

They must also notify the authority when they have reached the 90-day limit and "confirm all the details of homesharing undertaken at the end of each year", Mr Murphy told the Oireachtas Housing Committee yesterday.

From that, I'd infer there is going to be some sort of registration process with the LA. If that is the case, does that mean booking platforms will be expected to check registration status before a property is listed.

Fian

serfboard wrote: »

Since this has been passed by the Oireachtas, it is now the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2019, and can be read here.

That website is showing it as passed by the Dail, I don't know why it hasn't been updated. Nor do I know if any amendments were made in the Seanad, though it is unlikely since if they had it would need to go back to the Dail before being enacted.

So you are probably correct that is the final text of the Bill it has not been absolutely confirmed.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

Article in todays Indo discussing the changes:

[URL="
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/council-staff-to-track-airbnb-ads-to-block-breaches-of-new-rules-38163042.html"]Council staff to track Airbnb ads to block breaches of new rules[/URL]

Not much additional information but a couple of things do jump out:





From that, I'd infer there is going to be some sort of registration process with the LA. If that is the case, does that mean booking platforms will be expected to check registration status before a property is listed.

In America, the hosts have to show a license from their local authorities before they can register with AirBnB.

Dav010

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In America, the hosts have to show a license from their local authorities before they can register with AirBnB.

Probably the way it will go here as well. I suspect the reason Airbnb are being to vocal in their objection to the new legislation is that they know hosts will move to other platforms. Airbnb is actually the most proactive and tax compliant of the platforms, payment is to a bank account and Host income records are forwarded to Revenue. Other platforms allow for cash payment and will not be as accountable for checking planning. Chances are Airbnb will lose a considerable percentage of its business here and other platforms will benefit. Punishment for compliance.

Graham

I suspect AirBnB account for the bulk of transactions, some of the major hotel booking sites mopping up the scraps.

All the bluster about people trying to work around the rules aside, the vast majority of people with comply with the changes.

machalla

Graham wrote: »

I suspect AirBnB account for the bulk of transactions, some of the major hotel booking sites mopping up the scraps.

All the bluster about people trying to work around the rules aside, the vast majority of people with comply with the changes.

Is it likely to result in a flood of long term rental accommodation all hitting the market at once?

Dav010

Graham wrote: »

I suspect AirBnB account for the bulk of transactions, some of the major hotel booking sites mopping up the scraps.

All the bluster about people trying to work around the rules aside, the vast majority of people with comply with the changes.

They will if they can Graham, but if planning is not an option then like rent caps/RPZs/ evictions, people will ignore it.

Samuel T. Cogley

machalla wrote: »

Is it likely to result in a flood of long term rental accommodation all hitting the market at once?

I'd call it a mild shower. Don't expect it to depress prices at all, although it might cause them to stagnate a bit.

Dav010

machalla wrote: »

Is it likely to result in a flood of long term rental accommodation all hitting the market at once?

Any property that has been out of rental market for 2 years will come back in at high rental price. Also, many owners went over to Airbnb due to concern about long term tenancies so will not be eager to re-engage, preferring to try and look at alternative ways to short let, or sell.