Sisters wanting sites

Cashmerewrap

qwerty ui op wrote: »

I'd be genuinely interested to know how did it come to this?
When you consider all the documents and rigmarole you'd have do to transfer a family farm.
Was holding back part of the land ever even considered?

did anyone make this suggestion to hold back some land ? ( family members, extended family members, agri advisors,accountants, solicitors, neighbour's, friends) and if so how what was your fathers response to such suggestion?

In order to transfer a farm don't you have to do farm training course in some form, and in this isn't there a hole section that deals with farm succession. Doesn't this topic come up in the media time and time again.
Even if your brother was totally willing to transfer back what was already recently transfered to him, isn't that a very awkward time consuming costly way of doing things.

I can see how you would be interested. For a start the transfer was all done very quietly without anybody's knowledge save for my parents and brother so essentially it was done before myself or siblings knew. My brother had worked hard for years on the farm and had been ok to his parents up to this. None of us begrudge it to him but on the provision that he look after our parents financially in particular. Then the partner came along and decided that my parents should be cut off. My brother being the greedy article he is was soon persuaded. My parents solicitor did a poor job so if they wanted to persue him they would have had to take him to court. My parents were old and in poor health so cut to the chase they let it go. My father has since died from pure annoyance and upset. The other siblings did 100% of his care and are now caring for my mother. He hasn't darkened the door since he met his partner which is probably what upset my dad most.
I would urge farmers to be very careful and to make provisions for themselves and their other children before anything is signed. Greed takes over people and changes them completely.

croot

littelady wrote: »

My hubby is in the process of taking over the family farm. Now three of his sisters are looking for sites with intent to start building as soon as possible. My hubby is raging to the point he doesn't want to talk about it. How would you feel.

He'll be even more raging if its divided in four like happened a farm I know after they all fell out. Solicitors were the only winners. And a legacy of bitterness into the next generation so much so that some of the kids (1st cousins) go to a different primary school to avoid trouble.

Eric Cartman

beertons wrote: »

If ya wanted to spite them, give them the most shaded or wettest ground.

Or somewhere that would never get planning

Buford T. Justice XIX

fergus1001 wrote: »

started a poll to see what the general consensus is on this mater is

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057922540

Mod note: Hi folks, we've merged the poll thread with the discussion thread so we can keep the discussion in one thread and so all posters here can now vote as well.


Have fun:)


Buford T. Justice

Knex*

croot wrote: »

He'll be even more raging if its divided in four like happened a farm I know after they all fell out. Solicitors were the only winners. And a legacy of bitterness into the next generation so much so that some of the kids (1st cousins) go to a different primary school to avoid trouble.

Christ that's saddening.

JJayoo

OSI wrote: »

So having a dick magically grants him 197x as much land as his sister's?

It might be more the case that since the guy was a little kid he has been working on the land while the sisters have never once helped out.

I know a few cases like the one I have outlined above and the siblings who have never lifted a finger want an equal share.

Now in the OPs description 3 arches out of 200 shouldn't be an issue as long as it doesn't split the farm up logistically

croot

Knex. wrote: »

Christ that's saddening.

Yep. My dad always used to say the most land you will be left with is an 8 x 4 plot. I just cant understand such greed that a site for each sister is out of the question. I have offered all my sisters a site of their choosing if they ever want it but 3 of them are living away. One sister and her family moved back west and has an acre site with a new house built and I'm delighted that they want to live in the area. The offer stands for the other 3 if they ever want it.

Tell me how

Knex. wrote: »

Christ that's saddening.

And all too familiar. Am aware of two similar situations ongoing at the moment. In one, the home house is rapidly falling in to a state of disrepair while they "sort it out".

Kevwoody

TooOldBoots wrote:

Nothing worse than 1 off houses siting on the farm. If I were him I'd be looking to pay them off. Had a similar situation myself where my daughter was looking for a site. I discussed it with my son and neither he or I were in favor of it. As I told her she had no entitlement to the farm as She was hardly gonna go farming it. I paid towards her education, and thats more than enough. Raising Daughters is like ploughing another mans field for him

I'm not a farmer, but I do have 2 daughter's, and I would give them my last euro if I had too.

You and your son want to take a good long hard look at yourselves.

K.G.

i cant but that this thread is going ti end in tears -you have people coming out of the woodwork who are fairly heated about this.the bigger issue is the non stop building of one off houses in the country side while our villages are empty.only the farmer has any logically need to build on the farm and even thats not a necesscity nowadays.everyone wants their view but once they have built they dont want anyone else spoiling their view

qwerty ui op

Cashmerewrap wrote: »

For a start the transfer was all done very quietly without anybody's knowledge save for my parents and brother so essentially it was done before myself or siblings knew.

Ok, so these is a serious legal matter that would have taken some consideration prior to acting and then once the decision to transfer was made, the process itself would've taken some time.



When you and siblings were growing up or as young adults what were your views on all this, as is only reasonable, it seems like you(s) were of the view you'd be in line to inherit something. So if you had these reasonable views; surely you're parents were aware of that!(thats the part I can never understand about these type situations) it goes without saying that you would greatly appreciate something that would make your life easier and would be bitterly disappointed not getting something that would mean so much to you and your own family.


It's hard to tell, all the ins and outs of a situation from a few posts, but on the face of it, I think your folks set a terrible bad example to your brother on how to behave with family, when they did all this in the quiet. Knowing there is or could be a very serious issue here.

Pete_Cavan

The solution to all the issues raised in this thread is to ban the building of unnecessary houses on agricultural land. No more farms, or families, split up, simple.

qwerty ui op

JJayoo wrote: »

It might be more the case that since the guy was a little kid he has been working on the land while the sisters have never once helped out.

What about filling the dishwasher and hoovering the floor!! that has to count for something.
If someone didn't do it, the hero himself would have enough time to hang a gate or whatever.

BarryD2

If OP's husband's parents are still alive - think too about who may do the donkey work down the road when they need increasing amounts of help & care. Tasks that are often left to daughters.

Green&Red

qwerty ui op wrote: »

Ok, so these is a serious legal matter that would have taken some consideration prior to acting and then once the decision to transfer was made, the process itself would've taken some time.



When you and siblings were growing up or as young adults what were your views on all this, as is only reasonable, it seems like you(s) were of the view you'd be in line to inherit something. So if you had these reasonable views; surely you're parents were aware of that!(thats the part I can never understand about these type situations) it goes without saying that you would greatly appreciate something that would make your life easier and would be bitterly disappointed not getting something that would mean so much to you and your own family.


It's hard to tell, all the ins and outs of a situation from a few posts, but on the face of it, I think your folks set a terrible bad example to your brother on how to behave with family, when they did all this in the quiet. Knowing there is or could be a very serious issue here.

I don’t think this poster was looking for something themselves, I think the issue is that the son didn’t provide for the parents after the land was transferred over.
If that is the case it’s very poor by the solicitor, there’s a common enough clause that allows the parents use of the family house while they are alive, our solicitor insisted on it, she stated that things can change, that while it might seem unthinkable at the time these things change. Basically a woman can come in and scupper the lot!

Coolfresian

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The solution to all the issues raised in this thread is to ban the building of unnecessary houses on agricultural land. No more farms, or families, split up, simple.

Absolutely, we talk about the environment, green image of the Irish countryside and carbon footprint. One off houses serve to promote none of these. If one off houses continue to be built many countryside lanes and roads will look like a housing estate. Leaving emotion out of it, if not involved in agriculture, does it make sense to build away from services in the local town or village?

Cashmerewrap

Green&Red wrote: »

I don’t think this poster was looking for something themselves, I think the issue is that the son didn’t provide for the parents after the land was transferred over.
If that is the case it’s very poor by the solicitor, there’s a common enough clause that allows the parents use of the family house while they are alive, our solicitor insisted on it, she stated that things can change, that while it might seem unthinkable at the time these things change. Basically a woman can come in and scupper the lot!

You basically have it in a nutshell. They have right of residency but no income having given their lives to the farm. My brother was all sweetness and light until he got the farm transferred and until the partner came along.
I totally disagree with the 'you got your education what more do you want?' line that some farmers pull. In general the tax payer pays for uni fees, most students work and Any way is it not a parents duty to provide for all their children and not just the farmer of the family?

TPF2012

Coolfresian wrote: »

Absolutely, we talk about the environment, green image of the Irish countryside and carbon footprint. One off houses serve to promote none of these. If one off houses continue to be built many countryside lanes and roads will look like a housing estate. Leaving emotion out of it, if not involved in agriculture, does it make sense to build away from services in the local town or village?

I don't know about your local town or village but there is limited "services" in my local villages. Internet no better, piddly shop, one bar, no Post Office, no doctor. The graveyard is there so it would be a short spin to put me under but other than that I cant see the benefits. Maybe rural Ireland should die and be let empty to the frogs and nettles just like An Taisce want??

pc7

I really thought this was a thing of the past, very sad to read it all. We've had a family fight in our family over money (pennies!) and it has been devastating. Guide your husband well, put yourself in the sisters shoes (perhaps she thinks the same of you - we're opposites), family first, give his sisters some land, its minuscule in the scheme of 200 acres.

TheBoyConor

littelady wrote: »

We have a son and daughter if they don't want it. It will be handed over to the next generation or close relative. We would never want it sold

Hang on a second. How is it you think you're making a call on a decision like this? Sure it's not even your land, you only married in there!:mad:

K.G.

Coolfresian wrote: »

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The solution to all the issues raised in this thread is to ban the building of unnecessary houses on agricultural land. No more farms, or families, split up, simple.

Absolutely, we talk about the environment, green image of the Irish countryside and carbon footprint. One off houses serve to promote none of these. If one off houses continue to be built many countryside lanes and roads will look like a housing estate. Leaving emotion out of it, if not involved in agriculture, does it make sense to build away from services in the local town or village?

carefull now if we carry onthis type of thinking we will come to the nub of the whole issue.money.for example uf the council slapped a planning charge of 100k on each house out the country would they want to build there probaly not but a site is really just another check.site value in the short term and long term potential value.is it really healthy for a family to live close to each other.then move it on the next generation where does it stop.

Mooooo

Local needs is getting stricter anyway, just because a parent owned the site doesn't guarantee planning anymore depending on the county etc. Every situation is different. Asking others opinion is all well and good but decisions have to be made and once they are accept it and move on.

Tell me how

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Hang on a second. How is it you think you're making a call on a decision like this? Sure it's not even your land, you only married in there!:mad:

I honestly can't tell if this is genuine or sarcasm...

spurious

The clue is in the name 'family farm'. Not 'oldest or favourite child farm'.

Split evenly or come to an arrangement where whoever gets the biggest part compensates the others.

I know a family squabbling for years over a scabby bit of land that by the time it is finished will have to be sold to pay for all the solicitors.

irishman86

I dont know about ye but i look forward going to war for the family farm.
In our house its the favourites(girls) lined up to inherit but just cause they are dicks ill go out of my way to ruin it for them
Dont want a penny from them, anything that comes my way will be handed to the black sheep of our house just to annoy the others even more :pac:

lakill Farm

I wonder how many farms don't actually have a suitable site left due to numerous reasons.

We had 1 and I build on it for a separate business purpose. The other 3 or 4 remaining sites are not suitable due to land conditions and or line of sights

The funny thing is the FIL had a full blown fall out with me for building on that site . Said we should have kept it for a then expectant baby. FIL didn't even hand it over to us, the land was bought by us.

Pixel Eater

TPF2012 wrote: »

I don't know about your local town or village but there is limited "services" in my local villages. Internet no better, piddly shop, one bar, no Post Office, no doctor. The graveyard is there so it would be a short spin to put me under but other than that I cant see the benefits. Maybe rural Ireland should die and be let empty to the frogs and nettles just like An Taisce want??

Maybe there would be a post office, doctor and generally more shops and services if more people actually lived there rather than being scattered all over the countryside in one-off houses.

lakill Farm

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Maybe there would be a post office, doctor and generally more shops and services if more people actually lived there rather than being scattered all over the countryside in one-off houses.

Was the countryside not a lot more populated years ago compared to now?

Where my dad is from , the 4 houses over 1 mile has something like 43 kids between them. Same 4 houses next generation had zero offspring .

Gravelly

I grew up on a farm, which was left to my oldest brother (who was the only one interested in a career in farming anyway!). When it was handed over (more than 20 years ago), we were all taken aside and asked if we wanted a site - we were told we should only take one if we really needed it. I already owned a house at that stage, as did two of my siblings, so we didn't take one. One of my sisters was renting, and she took one and lives on it to this day. I felt then, and still do now, that this was the fairest way, and left nobody bitter. My parents helped all of us out, and made sure we were well educated.

TheBoyConor

lakill Farm wrote: »

Was the countryside not a lot more populated years ago compared to now?

Where my dad is from , the 4 houses over 1 mile has something like 43 kids between them. Same 4 houses next generation had zero offspring .

And that's what cause the famine. The country was overpopulated. On our farm there were at least 2 other houses pre-famine that I know of where no trace remains. My father found a few skeletons when removing a ditch that were determined to be from famine times.

Rural over population now would be far, far more damaging than back in those days because back then they were born, raised, lived in destitute misery, starved, married and died within the same square mile. Nowadays it's all McMansions, SUVs, ferrying spoilt little brats of children to endless "activities" and so on. Completely unsustainable.

Anyway, on my family farm I don't know what will happen. My sister is already sorted having taken on an out farm. One brother is interested in farming but cannot do so as he emigrated, married a foreigner and is childered over there. Other brother has 0 interest in actual farming, as do I. I see one of three outcomes :
1. Farm is left between us leased out and we split the rent.
2. it's left between us and the favourite brother buys us out and either leases it out.
3. farm is sold and proceeds are split 3 ways.

In all of the above, someone might have their share covered by holding on to the house.

The chances of someone actually taking it over to run a farm are slim to none. It's been leased already for 15 years and has been de-asseted in terms of facilities and equipment and farming knowledge and it would be financially impossible (let alone make any economic sense) to re-establish the enterprise. Plus we all have good jobs and see no attraction in breaking our holes in the rain and muck for less than minimum wage.