Dafuq is this bollox?

Pretzill

In my view methadone has been a disaster in getting heroin addicts off. It just keeps them in a state of drug and enables them to seek more. Now this, a place to inject in a sanitary environment, to make the addiction a little less unhealthy.

We need zero tolerance on all class A drugs and lots of padded rooms for cold turkey - it isn't easy to quit but it's a far better option than prolonging the inevitable and endorsing one of the world's nastiest crimes, drug lords, gun gangsters, trafficking, murder and all the despicable **** that comes from drug culture.

degsie

So most posters here would be quite happy to live next door to a facility like this?

skooterblue2

RaichuMGS wrote: »

are you comparing nicotine to herion? Is this real life?

There are over 2000 different chemicals in Cigarette filters including Toluene and loads of other nasty compounds. It is well recognised as a hard addiction to break. As tough as Heroin.

skooterblue2

degsie wrote: »

So most posters here would be quite happy to live next door to a facility like this?

F^&K NO!!! I wouldnt even go to my politician about it. I would have them run out of town. The ones that tell you its progressive havent been within an asses roar of these mucky puppies.

Sofiztikated

Pretzill wrote: »

In my view methadone has been a disaster in getting heroin addicts off. It just keeps them in a state of drug and enables them to seek more. Now this, a place to inject in a sanitary environment, to make the addiction a little less unhealthy.

We need zero tolerance on all class A drugs and lots of padded rooms for cold turkey - it isn't easy to quit but it's a far better option than prolonging the inevitable and endorsing one of the world's nastiest crimes, drug lords, gun gangsters, trafficking, murder and all the despicable **** that comes from drug culture.

It's also dangerous, alcohol, benzo and opiate withdrawal from cold turkey can kill.

skooterblue2

Sofiztikated wrote: »

It's also dangerous, alcohol, benzo and opiate withdrawal from cold turkey can kill.

That is the risk you take

circadian

Once people realise that drugs have won the war on drugs we'll actually be able to deal with the problem.

Pretzill

Sofiztikated wrote: »

It's also dangerous, alcohol, benzo and opiate withdrawal from cold turkey can kill.

So can prolonged use and the high chance of overdose? Merchants quay and its like make a good living from the fallout of drugs. People need to face up to withdrawl as a positive, life changing option. Those experimenting with any drugs should be given an education on the suffering, criminality and pain caused by the manufacture and sale of illegal drugs.

I'd rather see someone suffering getting themselves clean than hear another sordid, sorry story of young women being trafficked as sex slaves or any other of the sick vices that accompany the drug trade.

corner of hells

Sofiztikated wrote: »

It's also dangerous, alcohol, benzo and opiate withdrawal from cold turkey can kill.

I've worked in drug services for a while and low threshold services with addicts , you are at risk of death from detox from alcohol or benzos and I've seen people going into shock, convulsions, fits but I've never heard of any documetated case of anyone dying from opiate withdrawal.

I know one guy who had an aneurism while in treatment and died.

I suppose you could possibly die during cold turkey from untreated diarrhea and dehydration

corner of hells

Pretzill wrote: »

So can prolonged use and the high chance of overdose? Merchants quay and its like make a good living from the fallout of drugs. People need to face up to withdrawl as a positive, life changing option. Those experimenting with any drugs should be given an education on the suffering, criminality and pain caused by the manufacture and sale of illegal drugs.

I'd rather see someone suffering getting themselves clean than hear another sordid, sorry story of young women being trafficked as sex slaves or any other of the sick vices that accompany the drug trade.

Withdrawal from heroin or methadone ?

Pretzill

corner of hells wrote: »

Withdrawal from heroin or methadone ?

I don't understand the question - they are almost the same drug? But I would advocate getting rid of methadone as a treatment option. It may work for some as they lower dose incrementally but many drug users merely add methadone on top or search for another fix later.

corner of hells

Pretzill wrote: »

I don't understand the question - they are almost the same drug? But I would advocate getting rid of methadone as a treatment option. It may work for some as they lower dose incrementally but many drug users merely add methadone on top or search for another fix later.

At the moment heroin is illegal so you can't get any support detoxing off it , well there us one place that sets very strict criteria.
Methadone , you can get a supervised medical or therapeutic detox , either residential or in the community .

bilbot79

It worked in The Wire

Odhinn

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Define well? has (/..............)ug dealers and addicts

You already said you couldn't refute that, so why are you pretending to do so again here?

corner of hells

Pretzill wrote: »

I don't understand the question - they are almost the same drug? But I would advocate getting rid of methadone as a treatment option. It may work for some as they lower dose incrementally but many drug users merely add methadone on top or search for another fix later.

Methadone is prescribed primarily to stabilize an addict.Its not really a treatment option.


Unfortunately in Ireland we tend to do badly at supporting addicts detox off methadone.

Pretzill

corner of hells wrote: »

At the moment heroin is illegal so you can't get any support detoxing off it , well there us one place that sets very strict criteria.
Methadone , you can get a supervised medical or therapeutic detox , either residential or in the community .

I'm not going to contradict you here but this means eventhough heroin is illegal you can now go to a centre to shoot up but not to detox?? You see that is madness really, isn't it?

corner of hells

Pretzill wrote: »

I'm not going to contradict you here but this means eventhough heroin is illegal you can now go to a centre to shoot up but not to detox?? You see that is madness really, isn't it?

Not really , it's a supervised injection centre , much safer than injecting in a squat or a restaurant toilet on your own.

Pretzill

corner of hells wrote: »

Not really , it's a supervised injection centre , much safer than injecting in a squat or a restaurant toilet on your own.

I think you missed the irony of my point. You are also missing the fact that I don't really care how safe it is to inject an illegal substance.

Sofiztikated

corner of hells wrote: »

I've worked in drug services for a while and low threshold services with addicts , you are at risk of death from detox from alcohol or benzos and I've seen people going into shock, convulsions, fits but I've never heard of any documetated case of anyone dying from opiate withdrawal.

I know one guy who had an aneurism while in treatment and died.

I suppose you could possibly die during cold turkey from untreated diarrhea and dehydration

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/add.13512

I only know that because I read it a while ago. You're right about the dehydration.

gctest50

Pretzill wrote: »

I'm not going to contradict you here but this means eventhough heroin is illegal you can now go to a centre to shoot up but not to detox?? You see that is madness really, isn't it?

Less of them end up in hospital and that's all that matters

and bonus points, it's cheaper than the methadone scam, they are supplying their own :

https://www.herald.ie/news/3300-heroin-addicts-on-hse-methadone-for-more-than-10-years-at-a-cost-of-20mayear-31068636.html


Sources estimate that running the methadone programme for the last 20 years could cost up to €200m. Currently it is running at almost €20m a year.

reganreggie

If nothing else it will reduce the numbers of people overdosing on our streets reduce pressure on emergency services and get users in contact with services.
It's a positive move imo

corner of hells

Pretzill wrote: »

I think you missed the irony of my point. You are also missing the fact that I don't really care how safe it is to inject an illegal substance.

No problem.

corner of hells

Sofiztikated wrote: »

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/add.13512

I only know that because I read it a while ago. You're right about the dehydration.

That's a good article.

corner of hells

gctest50 wrote: »

Less of them end up in hospital and that's all that matters

and bonus points, it's cheaper than the methadone scam, they are supplying their own :

Methadone is minimum 2 grand a year for each addict , thats not adding in doctors prescribing , chemists dispensing etc a lot money .

gctest50

corner of hells wrote: »

Methadone is minimum 2 grand a year for each addict , thats not adding in doctors prescribing , chemists dispensing etc a lot money .

The cheapest thing would be a bullet in the head but people get a bit touchy about that carry on

So instead the methadone costs about 20 million euro per year

According to several conservative estimates, every dollar invested in addiction treatment programs yields a return of between $4 and $7 in reduced drug-related crime, criminal justice costs, and theft.
When savings related to healthcare are included, total savings can exceed costs by a ratio of 12 to 1.

forgodssake

From someone who lost a very very loved person close to me from this disgusting drug I am at ease with this . The drug is vile the effects are vile but the person, the user isn't . Not in every case anyway . I used to be very much black and white about this until I had personal experience of it . Heroin addiction can happen to the strongest best people .

gctest50

gctest50 wrote: »

The cheapest thing would be a bullet in the head but people get a bit touchy about that carry on

So instead the methadone costs about 20 million euro per year

Yeah that’s how we should deal with our issues as a civilised society :rolleyes:

igCorcaigh

Next logical step is to provide safely dosed heroin to registered addicts in a supervised environment.

Get people on to the system, address underlying issues, do the criminal gangs out of business and provide a framework to help the people with addiction issues a way forward to an addiction free future.

Common sense if you ask me, but queue the outrage...

corner of hells

RaichuMGS wrote: »

Yeah that’s how we should deal with our issues as a civilised society :rolleyes:

If you listen carefully , you can hear the banjo music out of "Deliverence".

AndrewJRenko

mad muffin wrote: »

Round them up into boot camps and detox the **** out of them. They’ll be much better for it and happier.

Sure they won’t be happy going in but they will definitely be happy coming out the other side.

Did you look at much research as to what actually works in drug rehabilitation before coming to this conclusion? Or do you prefer to get your opinions from taxi drivers?