Dafuq is this bollox?

mad muffin

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/first-ever-state-funded-heroin-injection-centre-will-cater-for-60-addicts-a-day-878351.html

I thought drugs where illegal? Why are they spending all this money to enable drug users, instead of focusing their money and effort to get them off it?

Come bring your own drugs and shoot up… it’s grand…

Any why do they always insist on having these kind of facilities in built up areas?

No one wants to see drugged up addicts roaming their streets like fûcking scummy zombies.

I’m all for helping them out to get off the blasted thing but not to enabling them.

Better than looking at a junkie shooting up on the street.
You want your kids seeing that?

Omackeral

mad muffin wrote: »

I’m all for helping them out

mad muffin wrote: »

fûcking scummy zombies.

You'll have to pardon my cynicism

mad muffin

bubblypop wrote: »

Better than looking at a junkie shooting up on the street.
You want your kids seeing that?

Like I said. Spend the money and effort to get them off the stuff in the first place. Hiding them in a “safe” place isn’t going to fix the problem.

It’s not like they won’t be on the street drugged up anyway.

Shoot up… off you go. NEXT!

mad muffin

Omackeral wrote: »

You'll have to pardon my cynicism

Criticise away my good fellow.

Fr_Dougal

mad muffin wrote: »

Like I said. Spend the money and effort to get them off the stuff in the first place. Hiding them in a “safe” place isn’t going to fix the problem.

There isn’t a magic pill to get them off the gear.

Better having them shoot up in a controlled environment, with clean needles and medical staff who can help them if they OD than have them shootup in a doorway somewhere throwing their needles where kids can find them.

I think it’s a progressive move.

Ipso

mad muffin wrote: »

Like I said. Spend the money and effort to get them off the stuff in the first place. Hiding them in a “safe” place isn’t going to fix the problem.

It’s not like they won’t be on the street drugged up anyway.

Shoot up… off you go. NEXT!

Not ideal but this way you deal with one problem instead of two.

riffmongous

Well hopefully it's the first step on the road to getting them clean, but for some people it's going to be a very very long journey, if it can be done at all, so better to have them somewhere controlled and safe and yes, out of the way

0cp71eyxkb94qf

This post has been deleted.

Inviere

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

I think it’s a progressive move.

I agree, it has to be better than in the streets. However, we've a ways to go...I always think of kids who respond so well to CBD oil but can't get it here because "ooh, cannabis, can't be havin' that shtuff now" - http://www.thejournal.ie/cbd-oil-seizures-3824301-Jan2018/

mad muffin

Oh here we go… the bleedin lefties are out in force… :rolleyes:

Round them up into boot camps and detox the **** out of them. They’ll be much better for it and happier.

Sure they won’t be happy going in but they will definitely be happy coming out the other side.

Fr_Dougal

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

There isn’t a magic pill to get them off the gear.

B.

There is. It is sold by calibre.

Might make O' Connell St more palatable for five minutes.

Dyr

Wonder what the cost of drug addiction is to the tax payer per junkie?

Crime, Policing, Courts, Prison, Health Service, Rehab. None of that is cheap.

I can think of better things to spend money on than people who missed the memo that heroin is bad for you.

mad muffin

Deleted User wrote: »

Might make O' Connell St more palatable for five minutes.

Why is that? Won’t they be letting them out after they shoot up?

mad muffin

mad muffin wrote: »

Why is that? Won’t they be letting them out after they shoot up?

Right you are Sherlock.

Sonovagun

Who Dafuq is this Bollox?

dudara

We have a long way to go, but supervised injection centers provide a place where addicts can get help, treatment and dispose of their gear. Its not going to improve things overnight, but hopefully it will help make life better little by little.

0cp71eyxkb94qf

This post has been deleted.

Pac1Man

Would they offer a free sample for new customers?

Arrival

You are a moron if you can't see the logic behind this sort of thing. It's been a huge success in other countries. The only enabling this does is giving access to professional help to people who need it. If you don't criminalise addicts and allow them to regularly have access to clean and safe clinics they will recurringly interact with professionals who stand much more of a chance of getting these people into rehab than if we just let them off around the streets. But of course you're not capable of this sort of reasonable and outside the box thinking, you just see 'drugs' and instantly recoil into your little sheltered cave.

ALL drugs must be legalised and suitable regulations established around each individual drug according to how harmful they are. This brings the entire issue of drug use above board, destigmatises users and allows us to actually get a true grasp on how prevalent drug use is in society. We then use the generated tax revenue to increase awareness and education about how to stay safe and know when you or people in your life need help. Furthermore, this takes the money and power out of criminal gangs.

Irish Guitarist

It will stop them being a nuisance in the street but they'll still be robbing people to fund their habit so it solves fuck all really.

Documents lodged with the application state that pregnant women who are injecting drug users will not be excluded from the service and the MSIF will have a dedicated staff member with expertise in the area.

Charming.

Odhinn

mad muffin wrote: »

Like I said. Spend the money and effort to get them off the stuff in the first place. Hiding them in a “safe” place isn’t going to fix the problem.

It’s not like they won’t be on the street drugged up anyway.

Shoot up… off you go. NEXT!

Clean enviroment will lessen some of the complications arising from self injection, thus lessening strain on other medical services. "Getting them off it" involves not only tackling the addiction to the drug but also what it is/was that made being whacked out of it on smack an appealing life style choice.

Fr_Dougal

mad muffin wrote: »

Oh here we go… the bleedin lefties are out in force… :rolleyes:

Round them up into boot camps and detox the **** out of them. They’ll be much better for it and happier.

Sure they won’t be happy going in but they will definitely be happy coming out the other side.

There’s no point detoxing the **** out of them if they’re going to go back to the same environment where they got on the junk.

punisher5112

Mad thing is they will still do it on the bus, bus shelter, playground, parks, board walks, outside methadone clinic etc etc.

The only way is to house them in a specialist facility and actually work with them to get them off gear.

Pauliedragon

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

There isn’t a magic pill to get them off the gear.

Better having them shoot up in a controlled environment, with clean needles and medical staff who can help them if they OD than have them shootup in a doorway somewhere throwing their needles where kids can find them.

I think it’s a progressive move.

Funnily enough there is a magic pill to get people off heroin.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21929313-900-mind-altering-drug-could-offer-life-free-of-heroin/

skooterblue2

Bambi wrote: »

Wonder what the cost of drug addiction is to the tax payer per junkie?

Crime, Policing, Courts, Prison, Health Service, Rehab. None of that is cheap.

I can think of better things to spend money on than people who missed the memo that heroin is bad for you.

€k
Social welfare : 20
Medical Card : 5-25 (if HIV positive)
BioHazzard Clean up : Who Knows?
Free Legal aid (Misnomer) : Who knows
Prison Services: no idea
Garda Resources: no idea 20% of Garda Budget?
Insurance cost from Damages : No idea?

Once the needle goes in the soul goes out. Better off and more cost effective focusing on Teenagers and Youth keeping them busy after school and into sports

mad muffin

This soft cûnt approach shît will never solve the problem.

Are drugs legal? No.

Are the junkies contributing to society in any meaningful way? No

Round them up detox them. Send them off to be a contributing member to society. If they relapse exile them to some island.

Also get the drug dealers and send them to these detox camps to see what they are causing, and get them to clean up the junkies shît and puke.

skooterblue2

riffmongous wrote: »

Well hopefully it's the first step on the road to getting them clean, but for some people it's going to be a very very long journey, if it can be done at all, so better to have them somewhere controlled and safe and yes, out of the way

How much does that cost? What is its success rate? Waste of public money once the needle has gone in your choices are gone. There are no old heroin addicts. The majority of addicts are dead before they hit 30.

Educate and protect the young from these "Lifestyle choices"

flazio

More effort should be concentrated on cutting out the production and supply.

jjpep

mad muffin wrote: »

This soft cûnt approach shît will never solve the problem.

Are drugs legal? No.

Are the junkies contributing to society in any meaningful way? No

Round them up detox them. Send them off to be a contributing member to society. If they relapse exile them to some island.

Also get the drug dealers and send them to these detox camps to see what they are causing, and get them to clean up the junkies shît and puke.

Now that Katie Hopkins is gone you could get a job with the daily fail....

Anesthetize

mad muffin wrote: »

Also get the drug dealers and send them to these detox camps to see what they are causing, and get them to clean up the junkies shît and puke.

They'll happily do that as long as drugs are illegal and they're the ones making money from them.

dudara

skooterblue2 wrote: »

How much does that cost? What is its success rate? Waste of public money once the needle has gone in your choices are gone. There are no old heroin addicts. The majority of addicts are dead before they hit 30.

Educate and protect the young from these "Lifestyle choices"

Youth education is important and having drugs right out in the open in society helps reduce curiosity and addiction rates. You can read about Portugal's approach to drugs which has been fairly revolutionary.

But we don’t turn our backs either on people who have become addicted, be it alcohol, gambling, drugs whatever. That would be cruel.

punisher5112

Such a sad and horrible waste of life.

It's so sad seeing them going about and can be very unpredictable.

Unfortunately I've come across one who passed from an o/d in work. Such a horrible horrible choice they have made and more needs to be done to tackle the issue.

We need more drug dogs.
Prisons need to get it under control and stop pandering to the drug dealers who are actually making more money in the contraband game then anything they made outside the bars.

As others mentioned education is key and stop the kids being used to push, sell and recruit others etc for these drug dealer scum.

skooterblue2

flazio wrote: »

More effort should be concentrated on cutting out the production and supply.

The problem is the American Army and British in Afghanistan are protecting the crops for MNC's and Doctors in the west are prescribing opioids for every little thing. Both Europe and America are awash with cheap and good quality Heroin(if there is such a thing).

BoneIdol

mad muffin wrote: »

This soft cûnt approach shît will never solve the problem.

Are drugs legal? No.

Yes, because prohibition has gone so well on a world wide basis. We should go for the American hard **** approach where they have no problems with opiates at all, oh wait.

You can keeping banging your head off the same brick wall or do something different.

hetuzozaho

I was listening to some podcast about these kind of centres and the main thing seemed to be getting people who don't usually meet "social workers" (?) to come in contact with them, and that contact paves the way to help. And apparently is very effective. As otherwise these people tend to get cut off from this part of society. And a lot of the people in these situations tend to be quite young.

Was an interesting listen anyway.

Of course I imagine it is difficult for the people living in the area. And businesses lodging complaints is fair enough.

A complex issue indeed.

mad muffin

BoneIdol wrote: »

Yes, because prohibition has gone so well on a world wide basis. We should go for the American hard **** approach where they have no problems with opiates at all, oh wait.

You can keeping banging your head off the same brick wall or do something different.

You know what… we should go the hard approach. Not prison but detox. Get them off it even if they don’t want to.

Heroine, meth, all those hard drugs do. Nothing but ruin lives.

skooterblue2

BoneIdol wrote: »

Yes, because prohibition has gone so well on a world wide basis. We should go for the American hard **** approach where they have no problems with opiates at all, oh wait.

You can keeping banging your head off the same brick wall or do something different.

Prohibition is like cutting your toe nails. Yes the problem grows back but if you leave it run wild its much worse

end of the road

mad muffin wrote: »

Oh here we go… the bleedin lefties are out in force…

Round them up into boot camps and detox the **** out of them. They’ll be much better for it and happier.

Sure they won’t be happy going in but they will definitely be happy coming out the other side.

won't work. before any detoxing can happen one must be willing and able to go through the withdrawel process to detox. if it was as simple as sticking people in boot camps and detoxing them then that would be the main method of dealing with this issue.

hetuzozaho

mad muffin wrote: »

Heroine, meth, all those hard drugs do. Nothing but ruin lives.

I guess in a lot of situations the drug is not the underlying problem as such. Maybe like a symptom? As in locking them all up somewhere as you seem to suggest won't solve the problem that will lead to the drug use again?

I dunno how much knowledge you have dealing with addicts, so maybe you are correct. But a lot I have read would suggest different approaches.

dudara

mad muffin wrote: »

You know what… we should go the hard approach. Not prison but detox. Get them off it even if they don’t want to.

Heroine, meth, all those hard drugs do. Nothing but ruin lives.

Think about it. If you don’t fix the environment in which the addiction resides or address the mental reasons for addiction, chances are you end up with a failed detox which is wasted time and money. Detox is only part of the solution.

grindle

Inviere wrote: »

I always think of kids who respond so well to CBD oil but can't get it here because "ooh, cannabis, can't be havin' that shtuff now" - http://www.thejournal.ie/cbd-oil-seizures-3824301-Jan2018/

You can get it here, even the article states it. I think they want to be able to claim it on the medical card or something so they want it to be medicinalised. That will likely cost money which'll be pushed onto the product's consumers which is a dose for those not getting prescriptions for free or near-free.

mad muffin

Also a lot of the addicts are people who had ordinary, normal lives who got addicted to prescription pain killers and turned to heroine after the prescription ran out.

Now they are homeless and destitute. The last thing they need or want is a “safe ” place to shoot up. They would rather get off the drugs and be pain free.

skooterblue2

dudara wrote: »

Youth education is important and having drugs right out in the open in society helps reduce curiosity and addiction rates. You can read about Portugal's approach to drugs which has been fairly revolutionary.

But we don’t turn our backs either on people who have become addicted, be it alcohol, gambling, drugs whatever. That would be cruel.

I have seen Portugal approach and it is about shifting numbers off the streets and sweeping it under the carpet. It hasnt tackled addiction. There is no workable numbers for Heroin addiction. Its a bottomless pit for money on useless therapies and people who are firmly in the grasp of the scourge of society.

dudara

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I have seen Portugal approach and it is about shifting numbers off the streets and sweeping it under the carpet. It hasnt tackled addiction. There is no workable numbers for Heroin addiction. Its a bottomless pit for money on useless therapies and people who are firmly in the grasp of the scourge of society.

Can you evidence that? I’ve read articles and books that outline the positives of the approach. It would be good to read some other findings. Not being smart here, this is a genuine request.

hetuzozaho

mad muffin wrote: »

Also a lot of the addicts are people who had ordinary, normal lives who got addicted to prescription pain killers and turned to heroine after the prescription ran out.

Now they are homeless and destitute. The last thing they need or want is a “safe ” place to shoot up. They would rather get off the drugs and be pain free.

The people at these centres are well trained. And will be able to liase with the people in the best way possible. So I wouldn't worry about the above. But nice to see your caring side come out fair play!

skooterblue2

dudara wrote: »

Think about it. If you don’t fix the environment in which the addiction resides or address the mental reasons for addiction, chances are you end up with a failed detox which is wasted time and money. Detox is only part of the solution.

They are the reason their areas are crappy. Who want to live next to drug addicts and them pooing in doorways, leaving needles lying around and their filthy lifestyles.....*shudders*

skooterblue2

dudara wrote: »

Can you evidence that? I’ve read articles and books that outline the positives of the approach. It would be good to read some other findings. Not being smart here, this is a genuine request.

No I dont but common sense would tell you that addict dont give up over night. They have absolutely no incentive to. I am fully aware that Heroin is a powerful drug as I have gone to lectures on addiction given by addicts and medical professionals. You cant just clean up Heroin over night. The ones on it are lost and are never "right" again afterwards. Just because you shift them off the street and behind closed doors does not make the problem go away.

skooterblue2

hetuzozaho wrote: »

The people at these centres are well trained. And will be able to liase with the people in the best way possible. So I wouldn't worry about the above. But nice to see your caring side come out fair play!

What is the difference between these clinics and 1880's Opium dens in China? Heroin is a powerful weapon to break the west. Much the same as the British used to destroy China. Stamp it out hard and fast.

mad muffin

The more I think about it the more it pains me to say, our society is ****ed. It’s just a vicious circle for some.

Poor education. Poor prospects. Lead to crime and drugs. Kids grow up in an environment of anti social behaviour and the circle continues.

We could fix it but we lack the mental fortitude to tackle it head on. We all pay our taxes. Money is there if the politicians and the elite didn’t have their snout in the trough.

Countless billionaires in the world with enough money for 100 life times. We need a complete sea change or nothing will ever get fixed.