Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

Augme

Chewbacca wrote: »

Ah, the "Black people" defence.

Attempting to nullify and normalise traveller crime.

LOL

That one went well over your head obviously.

Ruraldweller56

Augme wrote: »

I'm curious, if it was black people who had assualted you would you also hate all black people?

Replies like this and all the silly whataboutery rubbish like 'there's good and bad in everyone' is exactly the reason tensions exist between the traveller community and everyone else.

Until we can have an open and honest discussion about traveller culture and it's future and how it's going to fit into society we're going to go nowhere.

Blah blah racism and blah blah but black people etc helps absolutely no one. And just makes people who have to live with the consequences of traveller culture angrier.

gormdubhgorm

alias no.9 wrote: »

We don't, travellers do. Who the fück are they to label me as 'settled' or as a 'countryman'? I'm Irish, they can fück off with putting any other labels on me in an attempt to define themselves as different.

They see themselves as a separate cultural group weather you like it or not.
They see themselves as travellers first, Irish second it seems.
They call us 'settled' or 'country people' because they do not view 'us' settled people as part of thier culture.
They have/had thier own language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelta

Personally I think thier way of living does not suit the modern age and modern way of living.
But it is not as if you can give the Irish Army something to do, round then up and put them into ghettos?
Or you can't sow large caravan picture sown onto thier clothes in those ghettos.
As something similar was tired before by a German lad against some other crowd who saw themselves as the chosen people.
It didn't end well...

It would be interesting if settled people started buying caravans to want to become 'travellers'.

I assume there is no law against wanting to become a traveller.
How would the travellers react?

It could solve the housing crisis? :rolleyes:
The new Irish equivalent to American trailer trash.....

gormdubhgorm

Chewbacca wrote: »

Ah, the "Black people" defence.

Attempting to nullify and normalise traveller crime.

LOL

He is not normalising a crime a crime is a crime.
As I said no Traveller has caused me any harm, he fact they have been very courteous.
But settled people have should I hate settled people?

Personally I just hate scumbags no matter where they come from or what religion, social class they belong to a scumbag, is a scumbag.
But to lump one group of people who identify themselves separately to your group is dangerous.
They have done that craic on this island for centuries, now the people targeting groups, and the groups themselves just seems to have changed.

I think another problem is the non-travellers as a whole have very little day to day interactions, with travellers on a normal societal level - mates/friends/colleagues.

It is far easier to dehumanise people that you do not regularly interact with on normal level.
It would be interesting to hear from fellas that go to boxing clubs that are not travellers, I bet they have a more positive view of travellers they encounter then those who just are unfortunate enough to meet scumbags, or just read the headlines.

Ruraldweller56

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

He is not normalising a crime a crime is a crime.
As I said no Traveller has caused me any harm, he fact they have been very courteous.
But settled people have should I hate settled people?

Personally I just hate scumbags no matter where they come from or what religion, social class they belong to a scumbag, is a scumbag.
But to lump one group of people who identify themselves separately to your group is dangerous.
They have done that craic on this island for centuries, now the people targeting groups, and the groups themselves just seems to have changed.

I think another problem is the non-travellers as a whole have very little day to day interactions, with travellers on a normal societal level - mates/friends/colleagues.

It is far easier to dehumanise people that you do not regularly interact with on normal level.
It would be interesting to hear from fellas that go to boxing clubs that are not travellers, I bet they have a more positive view of travellers they encounter then those who just are unfortunate enough to meet scumbags, or just read the headlines.

Yo!

What would you like to know?

Gimme A Pound

It's not rational to hate all travellers because of encounters with some.

However, I suspect what it's shorthand for is a wariness of travellers as a whole because of two factors:

- Culturally, large extended families tend to be intertwined and defensive of each other/all singing off the same hymn sheet.
- Crime is, overall, accepted within traveller culture.

The above does not apply to black people.

Ruraldweller56

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

Yo!

What would you like to know?

I've known some from boxing. What I'll say is, how they treat you and how well you're likely to get on with them, depends a lot on how good or bad you are with your hands. Read from that what you want. I wasn't bad gave and hiding or two to a couple of them so it helped.

One traveller that used to come to our gym had been in jail and was trying to go straight started doing his applied LC. His house was broken into one evening by his brothers while he was at the gym and his books burned. Nowadays he's around the street an alcoholic that no settled person or traveller wants anything to do with. A pariah as it were.

Before I ever set foot in a gym I've had my money stolen. Had the 'big brother experience' when I've refused to hand over my money to some little runt. My grandmother's house ransacked by them.

Do you know that most boxing clubs have a code of conduct and your acting the maggot around the town you're kicked out? Happened to plenty of them in my club too. Hence they're probably likely to be a bit more respectful of others. At least while they're there.

I've brought and sold stuff from them down through the years. Dogs tools etc.

I don't really know what point you're trying to make with the boxing thing though.

gormdubhgorm

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

Yo!

What would you like to know?

Basically is it like the stereotype of the travellers do the majority set out to wreck the place cause chaos havoc etc etc.

Or do the majority participate in the same manner as everyone else shake hands at the end of well done etc etc.

And more importantly are there many non-travellers that become mates with the travellers outside of the boxing as a result of participating in the sport with each other?
Or do they tend to stick to themselves as a group and not interact outside of the boxing?

gormdubhgorm

alias no.9 wrote: »

There's nobody spouting ****e about settled people being the real victims in the Graham Dwyer case rather than poor Elaine O'Hara, yet time and time again some poor person is lying dead or badly beaten by the hands of travellers and we hear the whole 'travellers is the real victims here' nonsense trotted out regular as clockwork... like what the fück is that about.

But the people who unjustly play the victim card are the chancers in all walks of life.
Like the non-traveller mother whose son is up in court for joyriding robbed cars and says to the judge "Sure what else are they supposed to do".

I can remember a traveller on winning streak/ one of those shows who claimed he was discriminated against and the machine was rigged = chancer

There are also other travelers who try to better themselves but that will not get as much attention.

http://wicklownews.net/2018/09/bray-student-to-be-irelands-first-traveller-primary-teacher/

sightband

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But the people who unjustly play the victim card are the chancers in all walks of life.
Like the non-traveller mother whose son is up in court for joyriding robbed cars and says to the judge "Sure what else are they supposed to do".

I can remember a traveller on winning streak/ one of those shows who claimed he was discriminated against and the machine was rigged = chancer

There are also other travelers who try to better themselves but that will not get as much attention.

http://wicklownews.net/2018/09/bray-student-to-be-irelands-first-traveller-primary-teacher/

I read that story of the traveller getting into teaching, I find those access programmes very disconcerting. Primary teaching entry requires high points and specific standards in Irish and I believe maths, not sure if the honours maths requirement has been implemented yet. Anyway, I couldn’t give a shįte if she’s a traveller or an astronaut but getting in without having met those standards is unfair. Anyway, big swinging mickey, she got in because they threw a dog a bone and there’s media fanfare over how great they are. Talk to us when and if she graduates. Be tough going through a four year ungrad course and having 4-5 kids at the same time.

Augme

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

Replies like this and all the silly whataboutery rubbish like 'there's good and bad in everyone' is exactly the reason tensions exist between the traveller community and everyone else.

Until we can have an open and honest discussion about traveller culture and it's future and how it's going to fit into society we're going to go nowhere.

Blah blah racism and blah blah but black people etc helps absolutely no one. And just makes people who have to live with the consequences of traveller culture angrier.

But it's important people are honest about their feelings towards them. Hence the reference to black people. At the end of the day if you hate all black people because you had bad experienced with black people then you are a racist. Same with travellers.

Until we can have an open and honest discussion about people's racism towards travllers then we are going no where.

deaddonkey15

Augme wrote: »

But it's important people are honest about their feelings towards them. Hence the reference to black people. At the end of the day if you hate all black people because you had bad experienced with black people then you are a racist. Same with travellers.

Until we can have an open and honest discussion about people's racism towards travllers then we are going no where.

No it's not the same with travellers at all.

alias no.9

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They see themselves as a separate cultural group weather you like it or not.
They see themselves as travellers first, Irish second it seems.
They call us 'settled' or 'country people' because they do not view 'us' settled people as part of thier culture.

They can view themselves as whatever they want but I don't think it's an unreasonable ask that they don't label me with an identity I don't even recognize as existing anywhere in order to set themselves apart.

Settled! What does that even mean? Is it the crap that falls to the bottom of a barrel over time? Is it a pint of Guinness that's been sitting there for a while? Is it the kid who could have been a Formula 1 champion but settled for taking over the family farm? The fact is there is no such identity.

Now for their collective identity! You're 100% correct, it is they who assert this collective identity. It is they (or more to the point the traveller advocacy groups) who assert collective victimhood for every perceived slight against any traveller and make no mistake that's the agenda being pushed with the ethnic status. When they push this agenda, it's a very small step for the so called countryman to think well they're collectively victims, they must be collective responsible for the feuding, the violence, the criminality, the misogyny, the illegal dumping and burning that appear to be common amongst the most visible in their community.

I use the words most visible in their community very deliberately because there are many many travellers that you or me or anybody else would not pick out of a lineup as being travellers, they're just like you and me. You'd probably guess by talking to some of them but others, they'd have to tell you before you'd be sure.

This is where this ethnic identity agenda is divisive, they say they're different so we can only recognize them by difference, the behaviours we have in common are just seen to be an extension of us. It could have been a traveller that let you pull out in heavy traffic but you'll never recognise that as a positive encounter with a traveller because they didn't appear to be different so it won't register because we're constantly being told they're different so all we see is the differences.

Similarly, you probably wouldn't recognize the guy having a quiet pint as being a traveller but when things get out of hand with another traveller, there's no mistaking it. Again because we're told they're a separate culture, we don't even recognize them when they're behaving like us but all the bad stuff registers.

sightband

Augme wrote: »

But it's important people are honest about their feelings towards them. Hence the reference to black people. At the end of the day if you hate all black people because you had bad experienced with black people then you are a racist. Same with travellers.

Until we can have an open and honest discussion about people's racism towards travllers then we are going no where.

I’m ok with that, I f*cking detest them so call me a racist or a bigot or whatever you want. Fact is, they are a tiny proportion of this country’s population and I have been directly affected by them on 14 occasions in 3 decades through no fault of my own other than being robbed and have thwarted countless attempts due to overnight stays away from my family. So, forgive me, I don’t give a f*ck what you call me when these animals are given free reign to do whatever they want because of their so called disgusting culture.

How about you give us specifically your background, where you are from, what you do, what experience you have ever had with travellers. I’ll do the same, let’s be honest.

Ruraldweller56

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But the people who unjustly play the victim card are the chancers in all walks of life.
Like the non-traveller mother whose son is up in court for joyriding robbed cars and says to the judge "Sure what else are they supposed to do".

I can remember a traveller on winning streak/ one of those shows who claimed he was discriminated against and the machine was rigged = chancer

There are also other travelers who try to better themselves but that will not get as much attention.

http://wicklownews.net/2018/09/bray-student-to-be-irelands-first-traveller-primary-teacher/

I alluded to one such incident of a traveller trying to better himself through education and the support he received from his own family earlier:

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

One traveller that used to come to our gym had been in jail and was trying to go straight started doing his applied LC. His house was broken into one evening by his brothers while he was at the gym and his books burned. Nowadays he's around the street an alcoholic that no settled person or traveller wants anything to do with. A pariah as it were.

Paddy Cow

We can go round and round in circles, which we have for pages with most people having grievances against travellers and the odd poster who will jump in to defend them. As far as I can see, the reason settled people have issues with travellers is this - they fear and resent them for the following reasons:

• Travellers have 85-90% unemployment which means that the people they claim are being mean to them, are actually the people who pay their bills. This grates on people, understandably so. It especially grates when said social welfare beneficaries are seen to be driving around in new cars and living in new houses that seem beyond their means but no questions are asked.
• They account for a disproportionate amount of crime when compared to normal Irish people.
• They get huge amounts of money thrown at them to keep them in school but most will complete the JC at best. On the other hand there are plenty of people who understand the value of education and have kids with problems from autism to dyslexia etc. They try their very best to get an education for their kids but often get over looked due to cut backs.
• They are very intimidating. They have no fear of the law, and aggression rather than compromise seems to be their mediation tactic.
• The comparisson to black or muslims is thrown around but it's ridiculous because no other minority in Ireland has such high unemployment and crime rates while claiming discrimination. We don't have gangs of black people or *insert any other ethnic minority here* going around terrorising farmers/old people in rural Ireland.
  

Every community has a criminal element but even the most leftie SJW has to admit that Travellers have a far higher than normal level of criminality, dependency on taxpayers, penchant for violence to solve family arguments and total disregard for normal societal standards.

We're told to respect their culture and part of that is their language. How many travellers actually speak it? Do they all speak it on a daily basis or is it like how Irish is one of our national languages but most people couldn't sting a sentence together in Irish despite learning it for 14yrs? What other aspects are their to their culture? - Running sulky races on roads putting horses and other road users at risk?

We have seen in the last few generations that even Travellers are rejecting their "culture" and are settling in houses. They want all the modern day luxuries such as electricity, heating, internet etc without all the trappings of getting an education and career.

There are plenty of settled people who also opt out of responsibility as an adult and chose a life of benefits and or criminality. I don't think you will find anyone who disputes this. The difference between "settled" and traveller people is that if 85-90% of settled people decided to opt for a life of benefits/crime, the whole of Irish society would collapse.

What can we do with the problem of Travellers? Stop treating them like they are different. They are just as capable as any Irish person. One law for all. Accountability for everyone. Get rid of Traveller boxes on forms. Be like the CAO where it doesn't matter what background you come from, it's your hard work and merit that matters.

endacl

Augme wrote: »

Until we can have an open and honest discussion about people's racism towards travllers then we are going no where.

Not really.

Let's be honest. What people refer to when they complain about 'Travellers' is a system a system of endemic attitudes and behaviours.

Racism is discrimination against a person or population based on immutable characteristics inherent to that person or population. It's a sh1tty attitude to hold, and I of course would condemn it utterly.

There is nothing whatsoever immutable in those characteristics that are, and this cannot be argued, endemic to that population that self-identifies as 'traveller'.

I'm pretty sure that most people have no issue whatsoever with a law-abiding tax-paying individual, just getting on with their life, same as the rest of us, who identifies as traveller, settled or otherwise. As they can all strive to do. Same as all the other ethnic minorities in this country. Polish, African, Chinese, Latvian, Indian..... Those ethnic minorities of course also have their share of criminality and anti-social behaviour as do the 'settled' Irish community. It's a significant minority of those populations, though, and there's no official apologists standing up and claiming that society as a whole are being 'racist' when members of any other ethnic minority living here are held to account for their actions.

We, as a nation, have been complicit in infantilising travellers as a group. Fcuksake. Enough is enough. They can identify as ethnic spacemen for all most people would care, once they copped themselves on and grew up.

KrustyUCC

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Why haven’t RTÉ given any names of those banned?

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/1123/1012861-three-players-and-spectator-handed-bans-over-ref-attack/

They've named themselves over the weekend but of course are playing the race card

"A 50-year-old father who received one of the 40-year bans yesterday broke his silence, saying: "It should never have happened, I want to say sorry."

Ex-Mullingar Town player Sean Dinnegan is now banned alongside his sons Sean Jnr and Dean.

The member of the Travelling community claimed the attack was sparked by the racial abuse of his two sons — who were called "knackers" by other men during the game."

https://www.thesun.ie/news/3436151/refs-body-praises-ban-attackers/

hynesie08

KrustyUCC wrote: »

They've named themselves over the weekend but of course are playing the race card

"A 50-year-old father who received one of the 40-year bans yesterday broke his silence, saying: "It should never have happened, I want to say sorry."

Ex-Mullingar Town player Sean Dinnegan is now banned alongside his sons Sean Jnr and Dean.

The member of the Travelling community claimed the attack was sparked by the racial abuse of his two sons — who were called "knackers" by other men during the game."

https://www.thesun.ie/news/3436151/refs-body-praises-ban-attackers/

So, someone else called his children names and his response was to form a posse and nearly blind the referee.


Seems completely reasonable.........

Gravelly

KrustyUCC wrote: »

They've named themselves over the weekend but of course are playing the race card

"A 50-year-old father who received one of the 40-year bans yesterday broke his silence, saying: "It should never have happened, I want to say sorry."

Ex-Mullingar Town player Sean Dinnegan is now banned alongside his sons Sean Jnr and Dean.

The member of the Travelling community claimed the attack was sparked by the racial abuse of his two sons — who were called "knackers" by other men during the game."

https://www.thesun.ie/news/3436151/refs-body-praises-ban-attackers/

Yup, they are the boyos I mentioned up thread (when I was told with great certainty that I was wrong!).
I've been called a knacker during a soccer match, so has every other player I know - it's a kind of catch-all term when you are getting the better of your opponent. Pity I didn't know it gave me carte blanche to beat the ref with a golf club after the game.

Wonder what Mr. Dinnegan's excuses are for all his other convictions?

KrustyUCC

hynesie08 wrote: »

So, someone else called his children names and his response was to form a posse and nearly blind the referee.


Seems completely reasonable.........

completely reasonable

A quick google of the name involved in that article bring up other occasions of violence

seems a lovely character

hynesie08

Gravelly wrote: »

Wonder what Mr. Dinnegan's excuses are for all his other convictions?

If they're driving convictions they don't count apparently, the rest? Maybe someone got the last bottle of milk in Tesco so he attacked them with a slash hook?

KrustyUCC

well supposedly throwing a snow ball at a different family is enough to start a feud

"He heard how a row between the McKevitt family and Sean Dinnegan’s family arose because Dinnegan’s son threw a snowball at one of the McKevitts in late 2010, leading to a row."

http://www.advertiser.ie/mullingar/article/50617/judge-unimpressed-with-tit-for-tat-criminality

Gravelly

KrustyUCC wrote: »

well supposedly throwing a snow ball at a different family is enough to start a feud

"He heard how a row between the McKevitt family and Sean Dinnegan’s family arose because Dinnegan’s son threw a snowball at one of the McKevitts in late 2010, leading to a row."

http://www.advertiser.ie/mullingar/article/50617/judge-unimpressed-with-tit-for-tat-criminality

"But, but, but, settled people start intergenerational violent feuds because someone threw a snowball too"

hurler32

KrustyUCC wrote: »

They've named themselves over the weekend but of course are playing the race card

"A 50-year-old father who received one of the 40-year bans yesterday broke his silence, saying: "It should never have happened, I want to say sorry."

Ex-Mullingar Town player Sean Dinnegan is now banned alongside his sons Sean Jnr and Dean.

The member of the Travelling community claimed the attack was sparked by the racial abuse of his two sons — who were called "knackers" by other men during the game."

https://www.thesun.ie/news/3436151/refs-body-praises-ban-attackers/

It’s always someone else’s fault ...

The Irish Independent probably be seeking the Scott medal for this traveller kicking the crap out of the referee ...

blanch152

Augme wrote: »

But it's important people are honest about their feelings towards them. Hence the reference to black people. At the end of the day if you hate all black people because you had bad experienced with black people then you are a racist. Same with travellers.

Until we can have an open and honest discussion about people's racism towards travllers then we are going no where.

It is not racist to condemn the African culture of FGM.
It is not racist to condemn the Islamic culture of mistreatment of women.
It is not racist to condemn the Traveller culture of criminality and misogyny.

Floppybits

blanch152 wrote: »

It is not racist to condemn the African culture of FGM.
It is not racist to condemn the Islamic culture of mistreatment of women.
It is not racist to condemn the Traveller culture of criminality and misogyny.

But its their culture and you can't condemn their culture no matter how barbaric or backwards it is.

tuxy

Margaret is really enjoying the videos of chaos in Paris!

normanoffside

The protest march on Saturday is cancelled.
Dublin publicans can breathe a sigh of relief

UNFORTUNATELY DUE TO FAMILY REASONS BOTH PADDY AND MYSELF WON’T BE ATTENDING THIS MONTH SO THE NEW PROTEST MARCH WILL HAVE TO BE EARLY JANUARY ON A WEEK DAY SORRY FOR EVERYONE WHO WAS ATTENDING ON THE 2nd OF DECEMBER BUT THIS WE HAVE HAD TO CANCEL
THE NEW DATE WILL BE POSTED SOON AS I NO TAKE CARE AND GOD BLESS EVERYONE

https://www.facebook.com/groups/186617255169506/permalink/499945517170010/

Gravelly

I love that one can be accused of racism for pointing out the criminality of people of the same race! The word racism, once so powerful and meaningful, now has been diluted to the point where it can be used to describe anything whatsoever that one doesn't like.