Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

bloodless_coup

Nekarsulm wrote: »

You must be the only adult in Ireland not to know about it ....

This is what we are dealing with. The traveller apologists haven't a clue.

jace_da_face

weldoninhio wrote: »

Peter Casey is a 500/1 outside bet. He probably won't win, but he might.

Leicester City were a 5000/1 outside bet the year they shocked the footballing world and won the Premiership.

He's at 100/1 now. Still long odds but trending in the right direction

Cork Boy 53

alaimacerc wrote: »

Has to be a lot more subtle than that to be a "dogwhistle". But you're right to the extent that it does indeed further embolden the "he's not nearly prejudiced enough!" shower.

It might actually be something of a wake-up call if Casey did get elected. At that point, it might get a bit of wider notice. TBF at this point the EU and rest of the world have one or two other things to be worrying about, other than someone polling at 2% in an election for a largely ceremonial presidency.

Do the majority of people in the EU and the rest of the world even know or care that an Irish Presidential election is taking place next week? I seriously doubt it.

vonlars

Judson Fierce Syringe wrote: »

Yes I understand the role of the President, thanks.

I think it's fairly self evident at this stage who would be better at fulfilling that role. A well articulated man of principle like Michael D can represent us far better than a bumbling fool like Casey.

I haven't read about the Nally case. I think that there have been some terrible crimes commited by members of the traveling community and it's seriously scary for vulnerable people in rural areas. Serious work needs to be done to improve this situation.

That said, it doesn't serve anyone to turn around and say "all travellers are scum", etc etc, as we're reading here. What is a decent member of the traveling community supposed to do in a situation where the rest of us have already condemned him as a scumbag before he gets a chance?

(Queue a response of "there's no such thing" and a hundred thanks)

Who's condemning him as a scumbag? Casey wants them treated as equals. That's all we want. We don't want them lynched or anything of the like.

28,000 out of 30,000 of them do not work, yet they are handed houses and opportunities that aren't good enough for them or simply not in their culture. Who do you think keeps the 28,000 of them afloat? They live above the law. They should be subject to it. That's all.

quintana76

alaimacerc wrote: »

Two quick swigs there, players of the quintana76 drinking game.

They are the ones that will ignore what he actually said, shout the loudest and piss people off. Will only increase his profile and more than likely his vote.

7aubzxk43m2sni

doylefe wrote: »

This is what we are dealing with. The traveller apologists haven't a clue.

How am I a traveler apologist?

jace_da_face

Babooshka wrote: »

Does anyone know if Casey's claim about Higgins objecting to a temporary halting site near his home are true, are there any facts out there to back it up?

Have not seen a peep about this all day. I have it on good authority that this is true. How the press are not all over this is beyond me. Do your jobs!

How would one check who objected to a halting site, if it is on public record?

PlaneSpeeking

Judson Fierce Syringe wrote: »

How am I a traveler apologist?

You're criticising people with a genuine reason to be against travellers and excusing this genuine criticism by false accusations of prejudice.

For a start anyway.

alaimacerc

Judson Fierce Syringe wrote: »

Fair enough, I'm in agreement that what he said is not particularly outrageous. Some of the comments on here regarding travellers are fairly vile all the same.

If someone had said it in the Dáil, it'd be another day's work. If someone had said it in AH, we'd wonder why it so mellow in here. The "bold man for saying the unsayable!" is the real BS here.

Remember the role he's running for, though. The president might have to exercise actual meaningful legal functions of the office one or twice -- as in, per term. Mainly the job is to swan grandly around making us look good abroad, and raising the tone a little bit at home. Attacking a disadvantaged group -- even in terms that are unremarkable compared to the guff that's routine here -- is pretty off.

Bit like a Healy-Rae being nominated to Aosdána, say.

Mongfinder General

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

the travellers are a recognised ethnic minority and as such are deserving of the protection of the law just like any other minority.
the hatred, the bigotry and outright racism expressed here is totally disgraceful.
if you spoke about any other ethnic minority like this you would be arrested for incitement of hatred.

the Irish were treated exactly like this in the 18th century. we were considered violent, ugly, uneducated, thieving, dirty, filthy pig dwelling peasants and now we are treating our own in the same disgusting fashion.

what short memories we have.

Where do you live?

Wheres Me Jumper?

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

It's refreshing to see someone run for any kind of office telling the truth.

that's EXACTLY what trump supporters claim.:(

PlaneSpeeking

alaimacerc wrote: »

If someone had said it in the Dáil, it'd be another day's work. If someone had said it in AH, we'd wonder why it so mellow in here. The "bold man for saying the unsayable!" is the real BS here.

Remember the role he's running for, though. The president might have to exercise actual meaningful legal functions of the office one or twice -- as in, per term. Mainly the job is to swan grandly around making us look good abroad, and raising the tone a little bit at home. Attacking a disadvantaged group -- even in terms that are unremarkable compared to the guff that's routine here -- is pretty off.

Bit like a Healy-Rae being nominated to Aosdána, say.

Agreed.

But explain how a group that have their lifestyle funded by either the State or criminality that is excused; that don't have to live within our laws and can behave anyway they like are "disadvantaged".

irishproduce

It would be great if posters on here could stop comparing people from whatever housing estate of whichever part of Dublin or Cork, to travellers.
It is not adding anything to the discussion, since this discussion is about Peter Casey, calling out what is his opinion on some home truths about travellers.
Whether you agree with him or not, work away, but please do not compare travellers to any other section of society as that is not what this is about.

If posters would like to engage in whataboutery, then maybe open a separate thread so that posters here can discuss the merits or otherwise of Peter Casey's statements.

jace_da_face

jace_da_face wrote: »

Have not seen a peep about this all day. I have it on good authority that this is true. How the press are not all over this is beyond me. Do your jobs!

How would one check who objected to a halting site, if it is on public record?

First find out what council area it is and to make life easier have the area in that county. Then find the date (think PC mentioned the year) and go to the councils website and go through all the planning applications.

I think

PlaneSpeeking

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

that's EXACTLY what trump supporters claim.:(

Not being a Trump supporter and personally thinking he is a f**king idiot, I will bow to you. Clearly you've met all 61m people who voted for him?

alaimacerc

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Do the majority of people in the EU and the rest of the world even know or care that an Irish Presidential election is taking place next week? I seriously doubt it.

That's kinda my point. They might notice if the story is "new Irish head of state has the following views about Irish ethnic minority", though.

"No, no," we hastily protest. "It's not that we're prejudiced! They really are all terrible people! It's in no way like all the other cases in which people said that about a group they were systemically discriminating against! Why are you all looking at us that way?!"

7aubzxk43m2sni

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I don't believe his plane to Belfast because = security.

2 mins later and trying to defend an insinuation that a car wouldn't be good enough, he dropped a clanger by telling them that he drove to Derry a few weeks ago.

I wasn't convinced, but that's just my opinion.

I'm not sure either, but I'd believe that he doesn't decide most of his travel arrangements, but rather they're booked in advance for him and off he goes. It's hard to imagine he'd be pushing for a flight rather than a 1.5 hour drive, the hassle of flying almost negates the time saved.

alaimacerc

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Not being a Trump supporter and personally thinking he is a f**king idiot, I will bow to you. Clearly you've met all 61m people who voted for him?

Or, you could try reading a little?

I doubt you've met all 30,000 Irish Travellers, either, but that doesn't seem to slow you down from giving 'em both barrels.

jace_da_face

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

that's EXACTLY what trump supporters claim.:(

Trump called Mexicans murderers and rapists. PC said that travellers should be treated equally. You're such a warrior for the vulnerable in society. Right on!

joe40

In most conversations I would probably be considered one of the lefty, liberal, do gooder, snowflake etc. types.

But the way travellers behave is actually in direct opposition to what I believe in. The racism, intolerance and sexism they display is awful. I use the word "they" because that is accepted culture. Girls marrying young, total male dominance, taking children from school etc
That is not hearsay or allegations it is self professed "traveller culture"

The thing is though, cultures are basically learned behaviour, it could change within a generation if the right leadership arose within the traveller community.

I don't have a problem with ethnic minority status, but I do have a problem with enabling really problematic behaviours in the name of non discrimination.

(Casey though was only looking for self promotion I have no time for his antics)

vonlars

alaimacerc wrote: »

That's kinda my point. They might notice if the story is "new Irish head of state has the following views about Irish ethnic minority", though.

"No, no," we hastily protest. "It's not that we're prejudiced! They really are all terrible people! It's in no way like all the other cases in which people said that about a group they were systemically discriminating against! Why are you all looking at us that way?!"

That they should live within the law? Is that really too much to ask?

alaimacerc

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

But explain how a group that have their lifestyle funded by either the State or criminality that is excused; that don't have to live within our laws and can behave anyway they like are "disadvantaged".

... explain how many more times?

Look at the stats.

Then tell me with a straight face that it's all entirely Travellers own fault.

Unlike, of course, every other minority group, here and elsewhere, that are "actually" disadvantaged?

weldoninhio

Judson Fierce Syringe wrote: »

I'm not sure either, but I'd believe that he doesn't decide most of his travel arrangements, but rather they're booked in advance for him and off he goes. It's hard to imagine he'd be pushing for a flight rather than a 1.5 hour drive, the hassle of flying almost negates the time saved.

The hassle of flying? Do you think he goes through security or queues like the plebs??

alaimacerc

vonlars wrote: »

That they should live within the law? Is that really too much to ask?

No, the things he's actually said. Oddly enough.

irishproduce

weldoninhio wrote: »

The point is that Casey never even brought the subject up. He was asked a question on the Irish Times (I think) podcast and answered it honestly.

It was Pavee and the media that made a big deal of it.

And it backfired spectacularly - so much so that RTE had to relegate the item down the list on last nights 9pm news.
Every airing of the incident thorughout yesterday afternoon seemed to be starting up more and more conversations around the office coffee machines and kitchens around the country and it wasn't going favourably for the travellers cause or the soft touch media.

PlaneSpeeking

alaimacerc wrote: »

Or, you could try reading a little?

I doubt you've met all 30,000 Irish Travellers, either, but that doesn't seem to slow you down from giving 'em both barrels.

Perhaps I've not but I'm aware that 28,000 of them contribute f**k all to society, just take take take.

Oh not to mention the fact that 1 in 4 traveler women are in jail. Sadly not this one, yet: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/homeless-mumofseven-margaret-cash-appears-in-court-over-stealing-300-worth-of-clothes-from-penneys-37434491.html

Try again.

vonlars

alaimacerc wrote: »

No, the things he's actually said. Oddly enough.

What did he say? Give us a few examples to work on.

alaimacerc

joe40 wrote: »

I don't have a problem with ethnic minority status, but I do have a problem with enabling really problematic behaviours in the name of non discrimination.

Right, fair comment. The trouble is, what are the remedies? Obviously the AH plan is simple enough: remove ethnic group status, vilify and discriminate against them until morale improves. We've only been trying that 500 years, a few more is bound to be the charm!

Or the good ol' British Empire approach. Impound the kids and pack them off to Settled families. Put the adults in a camp. Even better, no?

The other side of this coin is clearly also people who don't give a damn about intra-Traveller issues, but are just using any excuse to attack them. Not unlike the memes one sees from the far right about Muslims. "It's disgraceful, they hate gays, persecute women, and advocate authoritarian rule, and brutal corporal and capital punishments. That's our job!"

alaimacerc

vonlars wrote: »

What did he say? Give us a few examples to work on.

Are you new to this thread, caller? Maybe don't start at page 1, for the sake of your mental health. But y'know, open a newspaper, or turn on a radio?

PlaneSpeeking

alaimacerc wrote: »

Right, fair comment. The trouble is, what are the remedies? Obviously the AH plan is simple enough: remove ethnic group status, vilify and discriminate against them until morale improves. We've only been trying that 500 years, a few more is bound to be the charm!

Or the good ol' British Empire approach. Impound the kids and pack them off to Settled families. Put the adults in a camp. Even better, no?

The other side of this coin is clearly also people who don't give a damn about intra-Traveller issues, but are just using any excuse to attack them. Not unlike the memes one sees from the far right about Muslims. "It's disgraceful, they hate gays, persecute women, and advocate authoritarian rule, and brutal corporal and capital punishments. That's our job!"

So far off the reservation dude, really.

I actually give up, there really is no point raising legitimate points here.