NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2018-19 Thread

Morrison J

Sixers have so much talent. When they're arsed it really shows. Simmons playing really well. Really think with the right coach they'll be a force.

ButtersSuki

Morrison J wrote: »

Sixers have so much talent. When they're arsed it really shows. Simmons playing really well. Really think with the right coach they'll be a force.

I think the reality is no one knows if Brown is a good coach or not because the roster is such a weird mismatch and doesn’t work together as it should. Philly can look great or awful. They equal less than the sum of their parts. I don’t think coaching is entirely to blame to be fair, and a large part of me thinks Simmons is the real problem from a for perspective. I just don’t see him there in 2 years if Joel stays healthy.

ButtersSuki

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Just a calf strain for KD, will miss the rest of this series though. These next two games are now the biggest of James Harden's career. If the Rockets can't beat the Warriors now then they never will.

I hate seeing any series decided by injury - for both teams. If Houston win out now it’ll always have an asterisk over it. If they don’t, Harden will take a pounding from the critics.

That might have been KD’s last game as a Warrior. Can’t bear the thoughts of Paul winning a ring.

Morrison J

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I hate seeing any series decided by injury - for both teams. If Houston win out now it’ll always have an asterisk over it. If they don’t, Harden will take a pounding from the critics.

Does the Warriors win last year have an asterisk beside it in your mind then? Whole series swung on Chris Paul's injury.

ButtersSuki

Morrison J wrote: »

Does the Warriors win last year have an asterisk beside it in your mind then? Whole series swung on Chris Paul's injury.

It’s a bitbif stretch to say that it swung On Paul’s injury. Or did Paul’s Injury make them miss 27 straight 3s?

You’re also ignoring the fact that Andre Iguadola was unavailable for a large part of that series too.

Morrison J

ButtersSuki wrote: »

It’s a bitbif stretch to say that it swung On Paul’s injury. Or did Paul’s Injury make them miss 27 straight 3s?

You’re also ignoring the fact that Andre Iguadola was unavailable for a large part of that series too.

Well he missed both games 6 and 7 and was playing extremely well at the time. There's definitely an argument. You'd also be putting an asterisk on when the Warriors beat the Cavs in 2015 without Irving and Love.

If the Rockets win it out this year it'll be because they deserve it. Just like thee Warriors have deserved their titles too. Getting a bit of luck is all part and parcel of it. An asterisk is total overkill imo.

Hitch2222

Morrison J wrote: »

Well he missed both games 6 and 7 and was playing extremely well at the time. There's definitely an argument. You'd also be putting an asterisk on when the Warriors beat the Cavs in 2015 without Irving and Love.

If the Rockets win it out this year it'll be because they deserve it. Just like thee Warriors have deserved their titles too. Getting a bit of luck is all part and parcel of it. An asterisk is total overkill imo.

It won't have an asterisk beside it. It's a similar argument to KD going to the Warriors, those wins have an asterisk beside them. No they don't, he won titles as the best player on the team. Likewise, injuries whether to major or minor players is a part of the game.

No other sport applies this logic and although the value of one player in Bball is disproportionately greater than the value of one player in many other sports, it still doesn't mean that the win is less valuable.

It's a silly rationale applied by talking heads and when viewed retrospectively it rarely finds a place in a conversation about a team's success.

If similar happens this year and the Rockets win the title, nobody will be placing an asterisk beside Houston's win in years to come because KD got injured for 2 games.

Carcharodon

Hitch2222 wrote: »

It won't have an asterisk beside it. It's a similar argument to KD going to the Warriors, those wins have an asterisk beside them. No they don't, he won titles as the best player on the team. Likewise, injuries whether to major or minor players is a part of the game.

No other sport applies this logic and although the value of one player in Bball is disproportionately greater than the value of one player in many other sports, it still doesn't mean that the win is less valuable.

It's a silly rationale applied by talking heads and when viewed retrospectively it rarely finds a place in a conversation about a team's success.

If similar happens this year and the Rockets win the title, nobody will be placing an asterisk beside Houston's win in years to come because KD got injured for 2 games.

I agree, it’s one of my biggest pet peeves when I hear that stuff, it’s just total nonsense, bayless & Smith soundbites.
I could argue if Draymond wasn’t suspended a few years back Warriors would of closed out the series but it’s a dumb argument.
I was at one of the Houston games last year and they should of won but they caved, they were unlucky but Harden went missing and they just lost all ability to play basketball, they had no plan b

rushfan

One could conceivably attach the asterix argument to just about anything. Back in the 2010 NBA Finals, Kendrick Perkins sustained an injury ( knee or ankle iirc) in Game 5 that kept him out of the remaining games. I firmly believed that Boston would have won the title otherwise.

Legion.

Sunday shaping up to be one hell of an evening with two Game 7s already. Not sure how I'll be able to cope with the Raps game given the implications for both teams depending on the result. I'm not sure either team can really hang with Milwaukee though especially since the Bucks have home court.

Will be interested to see how Houston adapt now that KD is out. They were guarding 5 on 3 beforehand - do they just sell out even more now and only really play Steph and Klay? Matt Moore has written about how the Ws are now undervalued without KD, and that if he had to miss any matchup this is the one to miss but its behind a paywall so I'm not sure what he's getting at.
Also, Harden only had 1FG attempt in the final 7 minutes of Game 5 - is he tiring? Not sure how much we'll learn tonight given the way this series has gone.

ButtersSuki

rushfan wrote: »

One could conceivably attach the asterix argument to just about anything. Back in the 2010 NBA Finals, Kendrick Perkins sustained an injury ( knee or ankle iirc) in Game 5 that kept him out of the remaining games. I firmly believed that Boston would have won the title otherwise.

Well as a Boston fan I do actually agree with this..........

ButtersSuki

Whatever about asterisk or not, surely we can agree that everyone would rather see the best talent available to all sides for these games? I think it's sad he's (KD) out, just as I would be if Harden was out btw. It does cheapen it a little in my eyes. He's arguably been the best performer in this year's Play Offs, he's a League MVP and Finals MVP. I can't recall anyone as high calibre or truly elite player being absent from deciding games ever. GS are now down KD and Boogie and have used virtually no bench this series. They're incredibly thin. And yet they're still a chance for GS. If Harden was missing from Houston I don't think anyone would give them a chance.

Apologies about the typos in my earlier post btw, was typing on the phone.

Carcharodon

It’s a pity Durant is out but those be the breaks, as a Warriors fan I think it would be disingenuous of me to complain about it if we lose the series, we have taken full advantage of these breaks in the past.
I think If Warriors can keep it close and get back to Klay and especially Curry leading the line then they have a chance, And if Green can be vintage Green then they have a chance.
Warriors bench is weak, very weak

kmart6

Carcharodon wrote: »

What a game, sold my ticket due to greed but ah well, I’ll go to game 7....

Oh well....

Osmosis Jones

And the Rockets can't even force a game 7 against a Warriors team without KD, little embarrassing.

Morrison J

The KD-less team that won 73 games a couple of years ago advance. People way overblowing the loss of Durant, as good as he is. Still a stacked starting 5. Draymond and Curry working off the pick and roll killed the rockets. Klay was superb tonight too. Rightful winners. Some team.

Carcharodon

Woohoo

Carcharodon

What a game, iam an absolute nervous wreck, girlfriend had to leave because I was shouting too much.
How do you even sum that game up, Strength in Numbers baby, Warriors role players stood up and rose to the occasion. Iggy knocked down some killer shots, Klay kept us in on, Draymond was just immense all game, Curry was garbage for first half but my god you can’t question that mans greatness.
Rockets must of had one eye on game 7, the first half by Warriors was just brilliant, great hustle !!!

Carcharodon

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

And the Rockets can't even force a game 7 against a Warriors team without KD, little embarrassing.

And Cousins, and a lot of players with low mins, bell, cook, jarebko, bogut, serious effort

Morrison J

Embarrassing is a massive stretch to be fair. They didn't lose to the Hawks. They lost to a team that arguably has 3 top 20 (ish) players in the league in their starting 5. No shame in that.

Annoys me how loads of people during the regular season said Harden's game wasn't sustainable and then he goes toe to toe with one of the best teams in league history and wins two games and was unlucky not to win at least three, yet the narrative is that he's some sort of overrated choker. Just nonsense in my opinion. Absolutely incredible season performing at the level he did so consistently. I do get why people love to hate him but he gets an awful raw end of the stick sometimes imo.

Carcharodon

Iam so god damn happy right now, haven’t felt this good about a series win in a long time, was vintage Warriors, brings it back to where it all started, Curry, Thompson, Iggy, Bogut, it felt so good, we have been spoiled with KD, satisfying to beat a great team like the Rockets when the backs are against the wall.

ButtersSuki

Interesting that the people sh*tting on Curry this week are very quiet now......

ButtersSuki

Morrison J wrote: »

The KD-less team that won 73 games a couple of years ago advance. People way overblowing the loss of Durant, as good as he is. Still a stacked starting 5. Draymond and Curry working off the pick and roll killed the rockets. Klay was superb tonight too. Rightful winners. Some team.

Wow.

It’s far from the team that won 73. Bogut is a shadow of what he was that year. No Barnes (who was in fairness good in that regular season). They have virtually no bench.

And Curry is playing with a dislocated finger in his left hand.


All time choke job by Houston not getting it done, at home.

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Wow.

It’s far from the team that won 73. Bogut is a shadow of what he was that year. No Barnes (who was in fairness good in that regular season). They have virtually no bench.

And Curry is playing with a dislocated finger in his left hand.


All time choke job by Houston not getting it done, at home.

Is it that far from that team??

Harrison Barnes 9PPG in playoffs and 0.2 VORP, basically the average NBA could fill that role.

Bogut although averaging 1.5 blocks a game only played 16 mins a game. They played small ball sure....

This team hasn't suffered as a result of losing those guys.

The core of that team and those who did the bulk of the heavy lifting are still there.

Stephs ability hasn't diminished since then, personally I think he's better. Still not the best playoff player imo but better than then.

Steph is a tad injured but a dislocated finger on his non-shooting hand might be literally the least likely injury to any extremity that negatively impacts him.

IMO Houston didn't bottle it by any means, they're simply playing against one of -if not- the best team ever and even though they're missing their best player, they still have 3 of the best players in the league in their roles on a roster.

Legion.

I'm disappointed the Rockets couldn't push it to 7 but to say they choked it is a bit ridiculous. They are trying to compete with one of the best teams we've ever seen, Durant or not. If Durants out then cool, you can just give more shots to those who sacrifice normally. Durant being out meant GS could play the way they used to - much more ball movement and more people getting involved. With Durant in the team obviously they're incredible but in plenty of half-court sets they just dumped it to him in an iso situation because hes unguardable.

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Interesting that the people sh*tting on Curry this week are very quiet now......

I only saw this now. Assume I'm being referred to in that post, stay classy Butters.

Here's everything I said about Steph;

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Obviously an injury may be impeding him a tad but I think this is another series showing that Steph's game isn't as conducive to playoff success as it is to success in the regular season.
He's a great player, best shooter ever etc but quite a few of his numbers get inflated in the earlier rounds before getting to the latter stages.
This playoffs he's averaging 22.5 points per game, obviously Durant carrying a heavy load but at 30 have we now seen the best of Steph?
It just seems that Steph isn't quite up to the task in this series, obviously a good game last night but his defensive frailties are showing up once again.
That said, I think he can certainly feel hard done by with some poor calls.

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Of course he's plus for his team, he's Steph, the question is more how plus.
He's been good in the playoffs but the best players take it to a next level and he's never been the Warriors best player in a finals, he's 30 now so he likely never will be either.

I'm just saying that his game isn't quite as suited to the playoffs as it is the regular season and it's showing at the moment to a point.
.

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Come on now, of course he has, he's won multiple MVP's, that's literally the award you're given for trying to be the best. It's not like he wasn't being chased by a hungry Harden.

No doubts about the salary, always a nice touch tbf. The gravity factor was the 2nd highest last article I read a few years ago, I actually think Korver was first, make sense Steph can beat you off the dribble, he can't.
That said neither of those make much difference in comparing his playoffs versus regular season performances.

The additional physicality (something he's worked on), tougher defensive assignments(something he's worked on) and general intensity simply don't allow Steph to showcase the abilities that make him a great regular season player. It's no slight on him per se, probably a Top 5 regular season player but he doesn'y hit those heights in the playoffs.

I maintain everything I said about Curry, a sample of one or arguably two changes nothing.

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

I only saw this now. Assume I'm being referred to in that post, stay classy Butters.

Here's everything I said about Steph;







I maintain everything I said about Curry, a sample of one or arguably two changes nothing.

Nope, wasn’t aimed at you personally but go ahead and take offence anyway. Maybe try and “stay classy” yourself?

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Nope, wasn’t aimed at you personally but go ahead and take offence anyway. Maybe try and “stay classy” yourself?

Certainly not taking offence, as I said, I assumed I was being referred to, you said people so I knew your efforts were directed at multiple people.

I just found your post infantile so I just wanted to clarify that in my case I'm not being quiet in light of Steph leading his team to success and in fact, I completely maintain my position.

You're probably right though, better not to respond in future.

Hitch2222

Think Basketball guy giving some objective analysis of Harden in G5 4th quarter.

Maybe he'll do one of G6, excellent as per usual. Make Morrison feel better

ButtersSuki

Re. your comment he hasn't been the best player in the Finals, he should by most commentators revised view and hindsight have been the MVP in their first Finals win in 2015.

He had one average game in the Finals last year and going into the last game he had a legit shot at MVP before KD went to the next level again.

What you saw last night however in the second half was a freedom to play that he doesn't always get with KD on the court. Part of what makes him so great as a player and a teammate is he's not a "I'm going to get mine" player, the fact he's willing to cede to KD is part of the greatness. To play like that with 3 fouls and zero points at half time and a dislocated finger was incredible, by any standards. As someone who has dislocated more than one finger I can tell you even dribbling a ball standing with that hand hursts every single time you do it, to dribble at game speed, drive aggressively, dribble behind your back is incredibly hard to do just from a pain standpoint alone, and to do it with 2 of your fingers taped together is just an incredibly skilful thing to do. You talk about him like he's a little better than average at times, and that's nonsense.

The argument of the core 4 having played together so they should just turn it on is a little disingenuous. KD has been a big part of the rotation for 3 years. Losing him would have been a blow mentally, and a boost psychologically to Houston. Not to mention the habits they'd have formed playing with KD over the last 3 years. It's not just as simple as flicking a switch.

Houston folded under the pressure. D'Antoni was hugely honest in the interviews, saying stuff like "this will leave a mark". In the same way I said OKC choked up 3-1 against GS in 2016, and GS choked against the Cavs in the same position, this was a choke job. At home, in a game against an opposing team down the best player in the league and who have a weak bench is simply a must win game. Houston were the heavy favourites last night in a game almost everyone thought they would win, and they lost.

BTW, D'Antoni is 0-6 is elimination games in recent years. Harden is 0-10 since 2009.