Leinster v Wasps Match thread Friday 12 October 7.45pm

prawnsambo

Former Former wrote: »

Heaslip was a phenomenal carrier in his younger days but adapted his game as time went on.


Conan is not and never will be in his class.

Heaslip was a decent ball carrier. I think 'phenomenal' is overstating it. And I disagree on his class. The difference is Heaslip had very little competition for his shirt and maintained a high standard regardless. So the gap always looked huge between Heaslip and the next best.

prawnsambo

Buer wrote: »

I think you are underestimating Heaslip here by an incredible amount and I say that after praising Conan in other posts.

I'm actually not. As Heaslip got older, his carrying suffered and he became more adept at dictating the terms of contact to give go forward ball and a quick recycle. Conan doesn't do that as well as Heaslip, but his skillset is different. I like what he brings in acceleration, ball handling and support running. He's as quick as many backs at full gallop.

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

Ah here, last time Wasps came to Dublin we unceremoniously dumped them out of the cup. Spilly Le Roux did his bit, but mr in vogue Danny Cipriani was ruined that day. It's history, tonight is business.

Please don't wear the hat again this week...

Clegg

Cipriani had a stinker that day.

Was sidestepped by Furlong iirc.

Buer

prawnsambo wrote: »

Heaslip was a decent ball carrier. I think 'phenomenal' is overstating it. And I disagree on his class. The difference is Heaslip had very little competition for his shirt and maintained a high standard regardless. So the gap always looked huge between Heaslip and the next best.

It was huge because he was so far ahead of the competition. Stander was available when Heaslip was the Irish No. 8....actually Stander's first season in green was the year Heaslip was nominated for the WPOTY award for the second time.

If anyone recalls Heaslip 2009-2011, I think phenomenal might be pretty accurate. His carrying stepped up to a level which I don't think we've seen from any Leinster No. 8, particularly the season after Elsom left when it fell upon him. He was popping up everywhere, breaking tackles, scoring tries.

Conan is the best No. 8 at Leinster comfortably. He's not in the same ballpark as Heaslip at this point, however. Heaslip was the starting test No. 8 for the Lions on back to back tours. Conan has just about managed to be the starting No. 8 for Ireland in back to back matches.

Former Former

prawnsambo wrote: »

Heaslip was a decent ball carrier. I think 'phenomenal' is overstating it. And I disagree on his class. The difference is Heaslip had very little competition for his shirt and maintained a high standard regardless. So the gap always looked huge between Heaslip and the next best.

I'm not sure what to say to this.

Heaslip belongs in the POC/BOD/Sexton class of Irish players who could legitimately have claimed to be one of the best in the world in their position over many years. (Edit; Murray en route to that club too)

Conan is decent but he's 26 and we're still talking about him stepping up and reaching his ceiling. Heaslip was 25 when he started all three Lions tests in South Africa. Conan isn't in the same postcode.

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

It was huge because he was so far ahead of the competition. Stander was available when Heaslip was the Irish No. 8....actually Stander's first season in green was the year Heaslip was nominated for the WPOTY award for the second time.

If anyone recalls Heaslip 2009-2011, I think phenomenal might be pretty accurate. His carrying stepped up to a level which I don't think we've seen from any Leinster No. 8, particularly the season after Elsom left when it fell upon him. He was popping up everywhere, breaking tackles, scoring tries.

Conan is the best No. 8 at Leinster comfortably. He's not in the same ballpark as Heaslip at this point, however.

Even the year before the king left, Heaslip had some pretty breathtaking carries

Kevski

Clegg wrote: »

Cipriani had a stinker that day.

Was sidestepped by Furlong iirc.

I’d forgotten about that!

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/848504307179814912

Dave_The_Sheep

Probably one of the best (if not the best) games Carbery had for Leinster.

*sniff*

troyzer

Kevski wrote: »

I’d forgotten about that!

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/848504307179814912

Yeah but to be fair, Tadhg Furlong isn't actually human.

stephen_n

Heaslip was a once in a generation player, comparing Conan to him is really not a fair benchmark at all.

Podge_irl

prawnsambo wrote: »

Heaslip was a decent ball carrier. I think 'phenomenal' is overstating it. And I disagree on his class. The difference is Heaslip had very little competition for his shirt and maintained a high standard regardless. So the gap always looked huge between Heaslip and the next best.

Heaslip in his early days got **** for being nothing but a great ball carrier. He was essentially just incredibly adaptable and fulfilled whatever role was required of him. Sometimes that was hard, close in carrying, sometimes it was more rangy carrying and sometimes it was nothing but carrying off the base of the scrum and spending the rest of the time in rucks.

There is no "yet" when it comes to comparing Conan and Heaslip. The former is not in the same ballpark and never will be. That is not a slight on Conan.

Faugheen

Podge_irl wrote: »

prawnsambo wrote: »

Heaslip was a decent ball carrier. I think 'phenomenal' is overstating it. And I disagree on his class. The difference is Heaslip had very little competition for his shirt and maintained a high standard regardless. So the gap always looked huge between Heaslip and the next best.

Heaslip in his early days got **** for being nothing but a great ball carrier. He was essentially just incredibly adaptable and fulfilled whatever role was required of him. Sometimes that was hard, close in carrying, sometimes it was more rangy carrying and sometimes it was nothing but carrying off the base of the scrum and spending the rest of the time in rucks.

There is no "yet" when it comes to comparing Conan and Heaslip. The former is not in the same ballpark and never will be. That is not a slight on Conan.

All of this. Some people were never happy when it came to Heaslip when he's one of the best players this Island had ever produced.

It's not fair to expect Conan to reach that level of greatness, because the only Irish back-rower at the moment that can reach that ball-park is Josh van der Flier.

Interested Observer

Just so we're clear this group of "some people" we're almost exclusively from South of Dublin and as Heaslip modified his game the argument against him modified with it. It was always, always a nonsense. He's one of our best ever.

Dave_The_Sheep

Two tickets for the South stand available (free) if anyone wants them, as I unexpectedly can't go last minute. I can email them on. PM me yer email address.

[edit] Gone.

vienne86

Looking forward to this, now that the weather has improved. Delighted with the team - fab back row, and I think Conan is a better 8 than SOB, so on form, SOB had to drop to the bench. Pity we have to leave JGP out, but Luke McGrath has been going well for us. TBP would make a great start to our campaign.

prawnsambo

Oh Lord. I'm usually one of those posters who wades in when somebody slights Heaslip. It's such fun to be on the other side of that.

irishbucsfan

Interested Observer wrote: »

Just so we're clear this group of "some people" we're almost exclusively from South of Dublin and as Heaslip modified his game the argument against him modified with it. It was always, always a nonsense. He's one of our best ever.

I thought you were railing against SouthDublin here for not appreciating a true genius from the true heartland and got excited here, but then I realised you miswrote what I read, so I’ll have to review my thanks for this post and get back to you

troyzer

Two free north stand tickets if anyone wants them.

I'm in the Horseshow at the moment but I'll be waddling over in a bit.

Clegg

All this talk of when Heaslip broke into the Leinster squad has me reminiscing of the halcyon days of mid 00's Leinster. 'Downtown' Gary Browne, Nathan Spooner, Gordon Darcy's mullet. Great lads, great rugby, fantastic hair.

Softest bunch of players you could imagine. Thank Christ we're a million miles removed from that **** show.

LuckyGent88

Anybody else having issues with BT?? Saying there is a technical fault on mine

LuckyGent88

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Anybody else having issues with BT?? Saying there is a technical fault on mine

Yeah I'm having an issue here also - it's saying 'stream is not available yet', not sure what that means but I'll keep ye all posted.

cameramonkey

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Anybody else having issues with BT?? Saying there is a technical fault on mine

i am watching on app, its fine for me.

cameramonkey

i think Leinster will be too good for wasps if Leinster can bring close to their best game.

I watched wasps against Exeter and they were good for the first half but as soon as Exeter started to control the game Wasps leaked tries. A game that is a bit disjointed will suit Wasps so Leinster need to set the pace and control it.

I think Leinster if they play well will win by 25+.

crisco10

Just in rds, weather has cleared up nicely. Bit breezy and ground is wet but otherwise perfect.

stephen_n

Actually a lovely night for a game, very warm.

sydthebeat

Hairy Joe taking tee kicks before the game....

Lets hope we're not that hard out for a kicker

Stheno

What time is kick off?

sydthebeat

Tom Daly out running freely and kicking balls as well... Good to see

cameramonkey

Stheno wrote: »

What time is kick off?

7.45