Graham Linehan given police warning for "transphobia"

Omackeral

klaaaz wrote: »

A story of a "trans child serial killer" implies to the public that all transgender people are a danger to both women and children.

Well that's just an out and out lie is what that is.

ceadaoin.

klaaaz wrote: »

Really? Huntley is not a transsexual prisoner. The thread title was not "Huntley prison controversy" or "Huntley allegation to be trans" or something like that, it was simply titled "transsexual prisoners", a dangerous slur associating Huntley with transsexual people. A tabloid would have been proud of that headline.

No, it was associating Huntley with a group of prisoners who are transsexual, or claim to be.

The fact that he is apparently not a trans prisoner didn't stop people immediately calling for him to be transferred to a women's prison and getting people banned from Twitter for deadnaming him did it? That is the problem with self id and highlights how ridiculous the situation is.

klaaaz

Omackeral wrote: »

Well that's just an out and out lie is what that is.

Substitute that thread title of "transsexual prisoners" with "black prisoners" or "Irish prisoners" with the content of the thread specifically about Huntley, that is associating black or Irish people with child serial killers.

Omackeral

klaaaz wrote: »

Substitute that thread title of "transsexual prisoners" with "black prisoners" or "Irish prisoners" with the content of the thread specifically about Huntley, that is associating black or Irish people with child serial killers.

Have you actually read the opening post? It does no such a thing. Jesus Christ. It poses the question "should prisoners lose the right to identify as something else". You're twisting an agenda so spectacularly wrong. Embarrassing.

AndrewJRenko

mcmoustache wrote: »

My problem with the Huntley story is there are genuine concerns to be addressed here and nothing is helped when made up stories are used to make a point.

If someone circulates a false story to support their argument and then doesn't acknowledge that they made a mistake, then I would view that as acting in bad faith.

Linehan can be quite a díck online but there are definitely issues worthy of discussion when rights clash as is the case with women's spaces and self id. This is a controversial topic that people have strong opinions about and false stories just make it more of a shítshow than it needs to be.

The problem with the Huntley story was the use of a made up story to rile up the easily led Mumsnet mob and distract them from the real issues causing danger to women.

ceadaoin.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The problem with the Huntley story was the use of a made up story to rile up the easily led Mumsnet mob and distract them from the real issues causing danger to women.

So violent male offenders can't identify as a woman and transfer to a women's prison? They can, and have. This doesn't make the issue go away, you'll be disappointed to know the mob on mumsnet arent shutting up about it.

klaaaz

The Reddit UK politics crowd with it's 171k subscribers see that Huntley story for what it really was, to bash and damage transgender people.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/apfzru/last_year_the_daily_star_published_a_story/

This story wasn't confined to the Star; it was picked up by the Daily Mail, The Sun, The Daily Mirror, Metro and the Daily Telegraph. It was cited in an anti-trans op-ed in The Times, by the spokesperson for an anti-trans organisation in an interview with Sky News, and in a transphobic piece in the Evening Standard. It was a story that played into the most pernicious stereotypes of trans women, bolstering those who wish to castigate them as mentally ill men attempting to gain illicit access to women's spaces for malevolent purposes, and it was gleefully seized upon by anti-trans propagandists looking to demonise trans women.

The fact that a story like this can be constructed out of whole cloth, spread like wildfire throughout traditional and social media, and then be quietly retracted almost a year later is symptomatic of a popular press that are morally bankrupt, and far more beholden to profit than to truth.

A newspaper made up a story that played upon stereotypes of an extremely vulnerable community and will suffer no consequences as a result; trans people continue to suffer the consequences of the propagation of these stereotypes every single day.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

... and yet you STILL get people wondering why they get lambasted for linking to the Mail and the Sun to back up their opinions...

BBFAN

ceadaoin. wrote: »

So violent male offenders can't identify as a woman and transfer to a women's prison? They can, and have. This doesn't make the issue go away, you'll be disappointed to know the mob on mumsnet arent shutting up about it.

Name one real life example.

Dante7

BBFAN wrote: »

Name one real life example.

Karen White


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-45825838

ceadaoin.

BBFAN wrote: »

Name one real life example.

Karen white

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-45825838

A transgender prisoner who sexually assaulted two inmates at a women's jail and had previously raped two other women has been given a life sentence.

Karen White attacked two women in 2017 while on remand at HMP New Hall, in Wakefield, for other offences.

White, 52, who is transitioning, was described as a "predator" who was a danger to women and children.

She must serve a minimum of nine-and-a-half years for rape, sexual assault and wounding, Leeds Crown Court was told.

The court heard White, who was born male and now identifies as a woman, used her "transgender persona" to put herself in contact with vulnerable women.

Anyway, it seems like this won't happen again now that there are plans to build facilities for transgender prisoners, which is a good thing for the safety of everyone.

Dante7

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Karen white

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-45825838



Anyway, it seems like this won't happen again now that there are plans to build facilities for trans gender prisoners which is a good thing.

That's spooky! You even used the same BBC link as me. Did you do the same as me and skip past the first few Google links to Guardian articles? :-)

ceadaoin.

Dante7 wrote: »

That's spooky! You even used the same BBC link as me. Did you do the same as me and skip past the first few Google links to Guardian articles? :-)

Can't stand the guardian anymore tbh, it used to be my go to newspaper lol

Interesting how the BBC also lead with the posed picture of White wearing make up and a wig. You have to scroll down a bit to see what this person really looks like. Imagine being a woman locked up with a scary looking male person like that. I'm glad the prison authorities came to their senses.

Here is another case from the UK of a male transferring to a female prison and assaulting inmates

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/19/trans-murderer-serving-life-will-receive-80k-gender-reassignment/

Green, 27, was found guilty of murder and jailed for life in 2013 after she tortured, sexually assaulted and beat a man to death with two accomplices.

Since being incarcerated, Green from Glenrothes, Fife, has been removed from a women’s prison for sexually assaulting other inmates.

Dante7

What I have found interesting in this debate is that a lot of the right-on wokie blokies who are blindly defending the trans activists, don't realise that they are campaigning for rights that would seriously damage real women's rights. The mind boggles.

klaaaz

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Interesting how the BBC also lead with the posed picture of White wearing make up and a wig. You have to scroll down a bit to see what this person really looks like. Imagine being a woman locked up with a scary looking male person like that. I'm glad the prison authorities came to their senses.

Here is another case from the UK of a male transferring to a female prison and assaulting inmates

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/19/trans-murderer-serving-life-will-receive-80k-gender-reassignment/

White was suspiciously not transgender, just threw on a wig and makeup claiming to be, no medical transition at all. As for Green, other papers have said she never sexually assaulted any female prisoners, it was consensual with no charges pending.

Both inmates had previous sexual assault convictions so should have never been mixed among the general prisoner population just like other sex offenders.

ceadaoin wrote:

Anyway, it seems like this won't happen again now that there are plans to build facilities for transgender prisoners, which is a good thing for the safety of everyone.

Think you're generalising there. The rethink seems to be related to self ID prisoners, not those who have undergone medical transition.

Candamir

klaaaz wrote: »

White was suspiciously not transgender, just threw on a wig and makeup claiming to be, no medical transition at all.

What? You mean he just self ID’ed to take advantage of the system?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

klaaaz

Candamir wrote: »

What? You mean he just self ID’ed to take advantage of the system?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Not that simple, some local prison board who themselves are being investigated by their superiors failed to take account of the person's previous sexual assault convictions. As said, anyone who has previous convictions for sexual assault should be separated away from the general prison population, no exceptions.

Candamir

klaaaz wrote: »

Not that simple, some local prison board who themselves are being investigated by their superiors failed to take account of the person's previous sexual assault convictions. As said, anyone who has previous convictions for sexual assault should be separated away from the general prison population, no exceptions.

I think you’ve missed the point there!

gmisk

I would be interested if anyone here watched the first episode of the channel 4 programme "the making of me"?

I thought it was a tough but really interesting watch, it really showed you what a tough time the person transitioning and the family etc involved can have.

I found the story of Jackie (who was originally Simon) especially moving.

branie2

gmisk wrote: »

I would be interested if anyone here watched the first episode of the channel 4 programme "the making of me"?

I thought it was a tough but really interesting watch, it really showed you what a tough time the person transitioning and the family etc involved can have.

I found the story of Jackie (who was originally Simon) especially moving.

Agreed; I thought her story was very good.

gmisk

branie2 wrote: »

Agreed; I thought her story was very good.

The reaction from her workmates was so heartwarming.
I was so impressed with her wife as well, what a woman, it must have been extremely tough after being married for 35 years.

ceadaoin.

klaaaz wrote: »

White was suspiciously not transgender, just threw on a wig and makeup claiming to be, no medical transition at all. As for Green, other papers have said she never sexually assaulted any female prisoners, it was consensual with no charges pending.

Both inmates had previous sexual assault convictions so should have never been mixed among the general prisoner population just like other sex offenders.

Yeah that's kind of the point ffs. Self id allows anyone to identify their way into women's prison. The poster asked for one example of a violent male who did this and I gave 2.

So it's "it doesn't happen", then when it does happen it's never by an actual transgender person. It's no true scotsman. Let's not forget there were transactivists attacking people for "misgendering" white and saying he should be moved back to a women's prisons and that they were prepared to "die on rapist hill" (yes, that happened)

How do you suggest we distinguish between "fake" and genuine trans people for the purposes of prison housing?


If it is a definite transgender person, such as Paris Green, then we're back to it didn't happen. I mean, some trans people do bad things, the same as any other people. There's a case in Australia where an inmate was raped and left pregnant by a fellow inmate who has since gone on to fully transition. The lesson is that facilities should never be mixed sex, regardless of the gender identity of the prisoners

klaaaz

ceadaoin. wrote: »

How do you suggest we distinguish between "fake" and genuine trans people for the purposes of prison housing?

On this point, if someone is actually undergoing or have undergone a medical transition, I think that's a definite intention of being genuine.

ceadaoin.

klaaaz wrote: »

On this point, if someone is actually undergoing or have undergone a medical transition, I think that's a definite intention of being genuine.

That's fair enough, it certainly is an indication that someone is genuine. Do you mean surgery or just hormones? Only a minority actually "fully" transition, as in gender reassignment surgery, so it would seem unfair to say anything but that isn't genuine? It's a huge deal to go through that and I don't blame people for not doing it, even though they might view themselves as the opposite sex and live as such.

Then you have the other extreme where its being advocated that only the say so of the person is required for them to be treated as their chosen gender, even though only superficial steps have been taken, if any at all. Surely we can agree that this just doesn't work and is bound to be exploited, and has been?

klaaaz

ceadaoin. wrote: »

That's fair enough, it certainly is an indication that someone is genuine. Do you mean surgery or just hormones? Only a minority actually "fully" transition, as in gender reassignment surgery, so it would seem unfair to say anything but that isn't genuine? It's a huge deal to go through that and I don't blame people for not doing it, even though they might view themselves as the opposite sex and live as such.

Then you have the other extreme where its being advocated that only the say so of the person is required for them to be treated as their chosen gender, even though only superficial steps have been taken, if any at all. Surely we can agree that this just doesn't work and is bound to be exploited, and has been?

Some of it is a tricky area hence the prison service over there say they make decisions on a case by case basis. It's not simply a blanket ban on every single transgender person in female prisons like the radicals who post here and wish for.
As we know a full medical transition involves hormonal and physical changes ending up with surgery, I think this grouping should be not affected by any new rules, they'd likely have the required legal gender cert by UK law presently and which was law for over a decade before now.
As for those who have started their medical transition journey, they'll have the hormonal and physical changes but no surgery yet, this grouping should not be in a men's prison (there were a few suicides by trans prisoners in the UK over their brutal treatment in a mens prison).
And yes, the chancers like White who had previous convictions for sexual assault should never have been in a female prison, hopefully someone high up gets sacked over that.

ceadaoin.

klaaaz wrote: »

Some of it is a tricky area hence the prison service over there say they make decisions on a case by case basis. It's not simply a blanket ban on every single transgender person in female prisons like the radicals who post here and wish for.
As we know a full medical transition involves hormonal and physical changes ending up with surgery, I think this grouping should be not affected by any new rules, they'd likely have the required legal gender cert by UK law presently and which was law for over a decade before now.
As for those who have started their medical transition journey, they'll have the hormonal and physical changes but no surgery yet, this grouping should not be in a men's prison (there were a few suicides by trans prisoners in the UK over their brutal treatment in a mens prison).
And yes, the chancers like White who had previous convictions for sexual assault should never have been in a female prison, hopefully someone high up gets sacked over that.

I don't think they should be in men's prisons, obviously that isn't safe. But likewise, I don't think that they automatically belong with women, especially if they have convictions for violent crime. Most women in prison are there for non violent offences, and have been subjected to abuse from men at some stage in their lives. It's not fair or safe to force them to share with males, especially those who are "fully intact" for want of a better phrase.

What about trans men? No one in their right mind would argue for them to be placed in a male prison, and I can't see any of them wanting to tbh.

Yes, a case by case review is best I think, with specific transgender facilities available.

klaaaz

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I don't think they should be in men's prisons, obviously that isn't safe. But likewise, I don't think that they automatically belong with women, especially if they have convictions for violent crime. Most women in prison are there for non violent offences, and have been subjected to abuse from men at some stage in their lives. It's not fair or safe to force them to share with males, especially those who are "fully intact" for want of a better phrase.

What about trans men? No one in their right mind would argue for them to be placed in a male prison, and I can't see any of them wanting to tbh.

Yes, a case by case review is best I think, with specific transgender facilities available.

Violent crime offenders I'd agree should be separate too. About "fully intact" or "no surgery yet", are the showers communal in a women's prison or is the showering/changing done in cubicles where nothing is seen?
About transmen which we rarely hear about in prison due to the sensationalist tabloids obsession with trans women, which prison do they be put in the UK?

Zorya

klaaaz wrote: »

Violent crime offenders I'd agree should be separate too. About "fully intact" or "no surgery yet", are the showers communal in a women's prison or is the showering/changing done in cubicles where nothing is seen?
About transmen which we rarely hear about in prison due to the sensationalist tabloids obsession with trans women, which prison do they be put in the UK?

No. Due to the fact that what transman in their right mind is going to want to go to male prison? They are not agitating for it. And why not? Well, it's to do with ...dun dun dun...sex organs, and the danger the transmen would undoubtedly put themselves in. It is TIMs who have been pushing this envelope.

The ''obsession'' can be explained from a very recent official UK statistic where the policy-making body estimated that up to 1000 male -bodied prisoners would identify as transwomen in a short time. Yep, that's them bigoted, transphobic, gubbermint officials, for ya. 1000. One Thousand. There are 4000 women prisoners in total in the uk. 1 in 5 looked like they were going to be transwomen so someone had to cop the fluck on before the place fell down around their ears.

The change has become more urgent after officials forecast that numbers of trans or non-binary prisoners in England and Wales could rise to 1,000, up from 139 last year. There are about 4,000 biological women in prison.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prisons-to-get-transgender-wings-6b2xpr88g

ceadaoin.

klaaaz wrote: »

About transmen which we rarely hear about in prison due to the sensationalist tabloids obsession with trans women, which prison do they be put in the UK?

I don't know? I've not heard of any demanding to be put in with men anyway. I wonder why that is. where do you think trans men should be housed yourself?

klaaaz

Zorya wrote: »

No. Due to the fact that what transman in their right mind is going to want to go to male prison? They are not agitating for it. And why not? Well, it's to do with ...dun dun dun...sex organs, and the danger the transmen would undoubtedly put themselves in. It is TIMs who have been pushing this envelope.

The ''obsession'' can be explained from a very recent official UK statistic where the policy-making body estimated that up to 1000 male -bodied prisoners would identify as transwomen in a short time. Yep, that's them bigoted, transphobic, gubbermint officials, for ya. 1000. One Thousand. There are 4000 women prisoners in total in the uk. 1 in 5 looked like they were going to be transwomen so someone had to cop the fluck on before the place fell down around their ears.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prisons-to-get-transgender-wings-6b2xpr88g

You do go on some rants, I give you that. The Times link is behind a paywall unless you copy and paste the article here for all to see?

Who is TIM?

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I don't know? I've not heard of any demanding to be put in with men anyway. I wonder why that is. where do you think trans men should be housed yourself?

I certainly think trans men should not be placed in a men's prison unless they request it. Most of the violent bigotry against anything transgender is from misogynistic, intolerant and sometimes violent males, they especially have a target for trans women. Just look at here on boards at the various threads at how a transgender person is treated as sub-human with hate spewing mostly from male contributors. (there are lots of good men too in case any men get offended )