Graham Linehan given police warning for "transphobia"

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 4:28pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Absolutely sick of this nonsense debate. Load of headers on all sides of it.

Have you considered staying away from the Daily Mail and a few threads here? It doesn't really come up very often as a hot issue for most people.

Calhoun · 10-02-2019 4:37pm

It's becoming a bigger issue for people as the the focus is shifting more and more onto kids.

I think it's the rock they will perish on but let them at it.

Calhoun · 10-02-2019 4:38pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Yes. That alone. As reported.

It interesting how many woke males are opposing the mumsnet feminist position.

What's the mumsnet position?

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 4:55pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Yes. That alone. As reported.

What reports are these? The reports I saw refer to "a campaign of targeted harassment" and "used accounts in two names to harass, defame and publish derogatory and defamatory tweets" and "stating she was racist, xenophobic and a crook" and "a fake lawyer".

That’s just a little bit more than "that alone" as you stated above, isn't it?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It interesting how many woke males are opposing the mumsnet feminist position.

Doubly woke, I'll have you know. I woke at 6.30am, went to the loo, read a bit, then went back asleep and woke again at around 9am. So I'm definitely doubly woke today.

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 4:57pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Convenient for the ruling classes that these kind of things are the political debate, alright.

In fairness, you seem to be making a much bigger deal about this yourself than any of the 'ruling classes'. You're making the debate.

Gravelly · 10-02-2019 4:58pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How ****in' hard is it too get someone's name right?

How often do you hear someone insisting on refering to Tom Cruise as as Thomas Mapother the Fourth just because it's his 'real' name?

Do you think anyone that calls him Thomas Mapother, or refers to him as such on twitter, should be arrested?

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 5:01pm

Calhoun wrote: »

It's becoming a bigger issue for people as the the focus is shifting more and more onto kids.

The focus of what? The Daily Mail?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-02-2019 5:04pm

Gravelly wrote: »

Do you think anyone that calls him Thomas Mapother, or refers to him as such on twitter, should be arrested?

Of course not! My point is he's being an attention-seeking dickhead, not that he's breaking the law.

FTA69 · 10-02-2019 5:13pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Have you considered staying away from the Daily Mail and a few threads here? It doesn't really come up very often as a hot issue for most people.

Unfortunately I’ve the bad luck to be a trade unionist who has to interact with the wider London left and I never hear the f*cking end of it.

“Oh we don’t want an article in that paper cos they had a transphobe on it.”

“Is your meeting going to be a safe space for transpeople?”

A mate of mine was asked to speak at a meeting in a university about organising migrant cleaners and they all kicked off introducing themselves with their pronouns. My mate didn’t and a few people got the hump with him accusing him of being transphobic etc.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-02-2019 5:13pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

In fairness, you seem to be making a much bigger deal about this yourself than any of the 'ruling classes'. You're making the debate.

It’s just me Andrew. Nobody else cares.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-02-2019 5:15pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The focus of what? The Daily Mail?

It didn’t work did it, me not linking to the DM.

Yer Da sells Avon · 10-02-2019 5:16pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Absolutely sick of this nonsense debate. Load of headers on all sides of it.

It's very easily avoidable. There wouldn't be a debate if people were prepared to live and let live.

"There just bloke's in skirts as far as im concerned" - Your opinion doesn't matter, mate. You're just some incurious, barely literate idiot on the internet. Try being a nice idiot.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-02-2019 5:16pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How ****in' hard is it too get someone's name right?

How often do you hear someone insisting on refering to Tom Cruise as as Thomas Mapother the Fourth just because it's his 'real' name?

Is it? Odd name that. Still if you got it wrong would you be arrested?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-02-2019 5:19pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

It's very easily avoidable. There wouldn't be a debate if people were prepared to live and let live.

"There just bloke's in skirts as far as im concerned" - Your opinion doesn't matter, mate. You're just some incurious, barely literate idiot on the internet. Try being a nice idiot.

Living and let living is clearly not happening when certain opinions get you arrested though. And it’s not just a libertarian position is it, the State is clearly prosecuting individuals for crime think.

Yer Da sells Avon · 10-02-2019 5:38pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Living and let living is clearly not happening when certain opinions get you arrested though. And it’s not just a libertarian position is it, the State is clearly prosecuting individuals for crime think.

Nobody's being arrested for thinking anything. They're being arrested because of things that they're saying. Unless they're actively harassing the person, I don't personally think they should be arrested at all, but let's not ignore the fact that they're saying those things for no reason other than to cause hurt and upset. Live and let live. Trans people exist, whether you like it or not. Their existence doesn't impact upon your life in any way. If you're not prepared to listen and learn, and would prefer to remain ignorant about the torment they go through, that's entirely a matter for yourself. I'm fairly ill-informed about trans people too - which is why my opinions on the topic don't extend beyond the suggestion that it's best not to be an arsehole towards people whose lives have been a struggle.

Robert Wolfe · 10-02-2019 5:46pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

It's very easily avoidable. There wouldn't be a debate if people were prepared to live and let live.

"There just bloke's in skirts as far as im concerned" - Your opinion doesn't matter, mate. You're just some incurious, barely literate idiot on the internet. Try being a nice idiot.

Bit touchy there eh? What's the matter, mad angry because you'll never pass as a woman?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-02-2019 5:47pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Nobody's being arrested for thinking anything.

You’re right but only because the technology to read thought isn’t there I suppose.

They're being arrested because of things that they're saying. Unless they're actively harassing the person, I don't personally think they should be arrested at all, but let's not ignore the fact that they're saying those things for no reason other than to cause hurt and upset.

They are also saying that they don’t believe trans ideology, which is why they are being arrested.

Live and let live. Trans people exist, whether you like it or not. Their existence doesn't impact upon your life in any way.

Trans ideology absolutely does affect female spaces however, which is in part what this arrested woman was arguing against.

If you're not prepared to listen and learn,

Meaning agree with you or shut up.

and would prefer to remain ignorant about the torment they go through, that's entirely a matter for yourself.

Meaning agree with you or shut up. Also an appeal to emotion.

I'm fairly ill-informed about trans people too - which is why my opinions on the topic don't extend beyond the suggestion that it's best not to be an arsehole towards people whose lives have been a struggle.

I’m not ill informed about trans ideology at all, I just don’t agree with it in total that’s all. In fact I’m really only opposed to self identification because that in fact does have wider societal impact, particularly on biological female spaces and sports.

padd b1975 · 10-02-2019 5:50pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Unfortunately I’ve the bad luck to be a trade unionist who has to interact with the wider London left and I never hear the f*cking end of it.

“Oh we don’t want an article in that paper cos they had a transphobe on it.”

“Is your meeting going to be a safe space for transpeople?”

A mate of mine was asked to speak at a meeting in a university about organising migrant cleaners and they all kicked off introducing themselves with their pronouns. My mate didn’t and a few people got the hump with him accusing him of being transphobic etc.

Ah FFS!

ceadaoin. · 10-02-2019 5:55pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Nobody's being arrested for thinking anything. They're being arrested because of things that they're saying. Unless they're actively harassing the person, I don't personally think they should be arrested at all, but let's not ignore the fact that they're saying those things for no reason other than to cause hurt and upset. Live and let live. Trans people exist, whether you like it or not. Their existence doesn't impact upon your life in any way. If you're not prepared to listen and learn, and would prefer to remain ignorant about the torment they go through, that's entirely a matter for yourself. I'm fairly ill-informed about trans people too - which is why my opinions on the topic don't extend beyond the suggestion that it's best not to be an arsehole towards people whose lives have been a struggle.

They're not saying those things to hurt and harrass anyone. This woman in particular was trying to debate the issues around allowing any male who says they are a female into women's spaces. This does impact on the lives of many women, why can't they discuss it? She said that trans women aren't female, which is true.

this Stephanie person treats the police like their own personal security team and spends their time constantly threatening people with legal action for the smallest things. Even trans women have been targeted as "transphobes"

Also, a man received a call from police to "check his thinking" after liking or retweeting a limerick that was supposedly transphobic. So yes, they are policing thoughts. Do you think that's what the police should spend their time doing when they don't even respond to calls of actual crimes, including domestic violence?

Yer Da sells Avon · 10-02-2019 5:58pm

Robert Wolfe wrote: »

What's the matter, mad angry because you'll never pass as a woman?

I'd make a better effort than your mother did anyway, Rereginald.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Also an appeal to emotion.

Bit of empathy never hurt anyone.

Robert Wolfe · 10-02-2019 6:00pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

I'd make a better effort than your mother did anyway, Rereginald.

Sure buddy. Maybe lay off the hormones for a bit?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-02-2019 6:22pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Is it? Odd name that. Still if you got it wrong would you be arrested?

Sure is. Had to Google the spelling of it though and didn't know there were three prior to him.

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 6:22pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Unfortunately I’ve the bad luck to be a trade unionist who has to interact with the wider London left and I never hear the f*cking end of it.

“Oh we don’t want an article in that paper cos they had a transphobe on it.”

“Is your meeting going to be a safe space for transpeople?”

A mate of mine was asked to speak at a meeting in a university about organising migrant cleaners and they all kicked off introducing themselves with their pronouns. My mate didn’t and a few people got the hump with him accusing him of being transphobic etc.

Is this in Ireland or the UK? It really doesn't seem to be a big issue over here, beyond a few posters here.

Maybe you should speak to your union rep if you're being put into inappropriate situations at your workplace?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It’s just me Andrew. Nobody else cares.

Slight exaggeration all right, but it's not really an issue that comes up often with family or friends, or in mainstream media here, despite Prime Time's best efforts to import the controversy from the UK.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It didn’t work did it, me not linking to the DM.

I suppose that was the risk you took when you tried positioning Mumsnet as the centrist voice of reason, instead of the hotbed of activism on one extremity of this particular issue, in bed with Glinner.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

They're not saying those things to hurt and harrass anyone. This woman in particular was trying to debate the issues around allowing any male who says they are a female into women's spaces. This does impact on the lives of many women, why can't they discuss it? She said that trans women aren't female, which is true.

From a quick look through the tweets linked above, it's a bit more than 'debating the issues around women's spaces'.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Living and let living is clearly not happening when certain opinions get you arrested though. And it’s not just a libertarian position is it, the State is clearly prosecuting individuals for crime think.

Sorry, I though you said above that the sole reason for the police arrest (not prosecution) was deadnaming "that alone" but now you're saying that it is 'crime think'? Which is it? [Based on the report I read, it is actually neither of those.]

And just to be clear, what 'State' are you talking about here - the UK, right?

ceadaoin. · 10-02-2019 7:01pm

Changing your identity is a great way to hide a criminal past. Even better if you can punish people who make a connection between former names and criminal convictions. This is the terrible harrassment that Stephanie is constantly complaining about.

What could possibly go wrong with a system that allows people to hide their dodgy past? I'm sure no criminals would ever take advantage of it.

Oh but wait. Here is case in Ireland where someone tried to have their charges cancelled claiming that the person literally doesn't exist anymore so therefore cannot be held culpable

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/10/03/4162881-judge-to-consider-legal-points-in-mayo-case-involving-transgender-person/

freshpopcorn · 10-02-2019 7:04pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Changing your identity is a great way to hide a criminal past. Even better if you can punish people who make a connection between former names and criminal convictions. What could possibly go wrong with a system that allows people to hide their dodgy past? I'm sure no criminals would ever take advantage of it.

It will be interesting to see what will happen with Ian Huntley.
From what I know they are talks of him changing genders. So l, he may be transferred feŕed to a female prison.

ceadaoin. · 10-02-2019 7:07pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what will happen with Ian Huntley.
From what I know they are talks of him changing genders. So l, he may be transferred feŕed to a female prison.

I read that there are plans to set up specific facilities for trans gender prisoners. The likes of Huntley won't be happy with that I'm sure but it's the best solution IMO.

super_furry · 10-02-2019 7:09pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what will happen with Ian Huntley.
From what I know they are talks of him changing genders. So l, he may be transferred feŕed to a female prison.

I really don't think that it's ever going to be a massive issue outside of some outlying cases, but if it is, just have a trans wing in a women's prison.

I dunno, the whole trans right's fight is so sad to me. I mean I personally have only ever known one trans person and she ended up taking her life. They have such a hard time of it across every part of their lives, for me, if you can make things even slightly easier for them by using their preferred pronouns and their names, why wouldn't you?

freshpopcorn · 10-02-2019 7:15pm

super_furry wrote: »

I really don't think that it's ever going to be a massive issue outside of some outlying cases, but if it is, just have a trans wing in a women's prison.

I dunno, the whole trans right's fight is so sad to me. I mean I personally have only ever known one trans person and she ended up taking her life. They have such a hard time of it across every part of their lives, for me, if you can make things even slightly easier for them by using their preferred pronouns and their names, why wouldn't you?

I just thinking it will be interesting to see what will happen with trans gender prisoners in the future and at what point do you allow them to change prisons/etc.
Sorry to hear about your friend.

Candamir · 10-02-2019 7:15pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Changing your identity is a great way to hide a criminal past. Even better if you can punish people who make a connection between former names and criminal convictions l. What could possibly go wrong with a system that allows people to hide their dodgy past? I'm sure no criminals would ever take advantage of it.

Oh but wait. Here is case in Ireland where someone tried to have their charges cancelled claiming that the person literally doesn't exist anymore so therefore cannot be held culpable

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/10/03/4162881-judge-to-consider-legal-points-in-mayo-case-involving-transgender-person/

Very good point. Stephanie seems to be a vile individual. Nothing to do with the fact that she’s transgender.

On a completely separate note, here’s a link referencing a man in the UK who has several criminal convictions, including an incident where another man ended up bleeding from the back of his head after an affray with a golf club.
https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-transgender-lawyer-suing-graham-linehan-was-convicted-threatening-man-golf

:rolleyes:

Candamir · 10-02-2019 7:19pm

super_furry wrote: »

I really don't think that it's ever going to be a massive issue outside of some outlying cases, but if it is, just have a trans wing in a women's prison.

I dunno, the whole trans right's fight is so sad to me. I mean I personally have only ever known one trans person and she ended up taking her life. They have such a hard time of it across every part of their lives, for me, if you can make things even slightly easier for them by using their preferred pronouns and their names, why wouldn't you?

I honestly think a lot of trans people wouldn’t be happy about being accommodated in a ‘trans wing’ - surely that just further marginalises and segregated them?
A similar arguement could be made for having trans only catagories in sport competitions - I doubly many would be happy with that, but undoubtedly would be fairer than some of the current arrangements, which I think are very unfair on biologically female athletes.

Graham Linehan given police warning for "transphobia"

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