The Irish Language and the Irish Government

blanch152 · 17-10-2018 4:00pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I agree it's the most used. You can keep saying it is and I'll keep agreeing.

Irish and English are our official languages. Irish was developed and used here. Named after the country were it originated and is associated with. English is the language most commonly used, brought over by the English.

You are getting into what constitutes a language. I've no interest in going down that route. I appreciate it as a genuine discussion point, but one could argue the only thing English about English is they retained the name. Same could be said of many others. In Ireland's case, the Irish language is our own.

It's called Irish.

Would you be happy if the Irish Dail passed a basic law under the title Ireland as the Nation-State of the Irish People, which defines Irish as "the State's language" and English as a language with "a special status in the State"?

That would ensure the position of Irish within the Irish State in the way that you claim it is.

Hotblack Desiato · 17-10-2018 4:16pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Would you be happy if the Irish Dail passed a basic law under the title Ireland as the Nation-State of the Irish People, which defines Irish as "the State's language" and English as a language with "a special status in the State"?

That's pretty much exactly what the constitution says right now. It doesn't reflect reality though.

blanch152 · 17-10-2018 4:23pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

That's pretty much exactly what the constitution says right now. It doesn't reflect reality though.

So we are up there with how Israel (Ireland) venerates Hebrew (Irish) and treats Arabic (English).

Interesting company that these Gaelgeoirs are keeping.

James Brown · 17-10-2018 4:32pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

That's pretty much exactly what the constitution says right now. It doesn't reflect reality though.

As an English speaker I hope we retain both. It's just practical. We can't dismiss Irish, this being Ireland and all.

Imreoir2 · 17-10-2018 5:30pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I am sorry, but Hiberno-English is more our language than Irish.

I disagree. Irish is Ireland's language, Irish unlike English was created and shaped in Ireland. Don't get me wrong, English is a perfectly good language, but it is the English language.

English, as spoken in Dublin, with the words unique to that city, is a richer living language than Irish.

This seems like a rather pointless and entirely subjective comparrison if you ask me, there are people who prefer English, there are people who prefer Irish. One is not better or "richer" than the other.

The type of moral and cultural superiority of the Irish language that you speak of comes from the same culture that allowed the Roman Catholic Church to dominate this country for decades, that resulted in the suppression of homosexuality, the degradation of women and the abuse of children. The attempt to be not-English and morally superior to the English was a large part of the motivating force behind our laws that talked about the place of women in the home, that banned abortion, divorce and homosexual acts. The Catholic Church rode that moral wave, along with the Irish language and music movement.

Sorry, but this is ahistorical nonsense. The motovating force behind banning abortion, divorce, homosexuality etc was a conservative reactionary Catholicisim. Irish speakers in Ireland at the time, just like English speakers in Ireland at the time supported those measures because that was the culture that the country was steeped in. Conservative Catholicism is not something unique to or even particularly ascociated with the Irish language or its speakers. In reality, the Catholic church was an anglicising force in Ireland pre-independance. But don't let historical accuracy get in the way of a good rant.

The Irish speaking community, just like the English speaking community have favoured the liberalisation of Ireland over the past decade. There were grass roots campaigns in Irish to legalise same sex marrige and to repeal the 8th, Gaeltacht areas around the country supported both liberal reforms just like the non-Gaeltacht areas around them. The picture you paint of the Irish language, or Irish speakers as some hotbed of conservatism, or as being the motivating force behind conservatism in Ireland is simply false.

Not for the first time in this thread do the claims of those critical of the Irish language fail to stand up to scrutiny. Here is a little hint for some posters in this thread, if the claims you make based on your underlying assumptions keep turning out to be false, your assumptions are also probably wrong.

blanch152 · 17-10-2018 5:37pm

Imreoir2 wrote: »

I disagree. Irish is Ireland's language, Irish unlike English was created and shaped in Ireland. Don't get me wrong, English is a perfectly good language, but it is the English language.

This seems like a rather pointless and entirely subjective comparrison if you ask me, there are people who prefer English, there are people who prefer Irish. One is not better or "richer" than the other.

Sorry, but this is ahistorical nonsense. The motovating force behind banning abortion, divorce, homosexuality etc was a conservative reactionary Catholicisim. Irish speakers in Ireland at the time, just like English speakers in Ireland at the time supported those measures because that was the culture that the country was steeped in. Conservative Catholicism is not something unique to or even particularly ascociated with the Irish language or its speakers. In reality, the Catholic church was an anglicising force in Ireland pre-independance. But don't let historical accuracy get in the way of a good rant.

The Irish speaking community, just like the English speaking community have favoured the liberalisation of Ireland over the past decade. There were grass roots campaigns in Irish to legalise same sex marrige and to repeal the 8th, Gaeltacht areas around the country supported both liberal reforms just like the non-Gaeltacht areas around them. The picture you paint of the Irish language, or Irish speakers as some hotbed of conservatism, or as being the motivating force behind conservatism in Ireland is simply false.

Not for the first time in this thread do the claims of those critical of the Irish language fail to stand up to scrutiny. Here is a little hint for some posters in this thread, if the claims you make based on your underlying assumptions keep turning out to be false, your assumptions are also probably wrong.

Sorry, but not a single piece of evidence was presented in your post to back up your statement that what I said was false.

There has been factual information posted repeatedly on the decline and disappearance of the Irish language that you have ignored or dismissed. There has been factual information on the predilection of Gaeilscoileanna to have less non-nationals and less pupils with special needs that you have waved away. And now, here you come again and just offer an opinion that someone else is wrong, while simultaneously proclaiming that your opinion is fact.

If you had posted an analysis of voting in Gaeltacht areas as opposed to non-Gaeltacht areas in relation to social issues, you may have had a point. If you had posted an analysis of church attendance being lower in Gaeltacht areas than in non-Gaeltacht areas, you may have had a point. I suspect that one of the reasons you didn't back up your opinion with any facts to support it, is that there are no facts to support it.

Imreoir2 · 17-10-2018 6:11pm

blanch152 wrote: »

There has been factual information posted repeatedly on the decline and disappearance of the Irish language that you have ignored or dismissed.

Where have I dismissed it? As fas as I can see, no one has denyed this, but some posters feel the need to include it in every post anyway. You are arguing with yourself on this point.

There has been factual information on the predilection of Gaeilscoileanna to have less non-nationals and less pupils with special needs that you have waved away.

Again, I have not disputed the evidence that was provided, simply pointed out that it does not support the conslusions that posters have claimed.

If you had posted an analysis of voting in Gaeltacht areas as opposed to non-Gaeltacht areas in relation to social issues, you may have had a point.

Ok. For the Abortion Referendum

Galway Gaeltacht: Yes = 65.5% By comparrision Galway West Constituency = 65.9% yes, Galway East constituency = 60.2% yes.

Donegall Gaeltacht: Yes 47%, and as we all know, Donegall as a whole also voted No. The Yes vote in Donegall as a whole was 48.1%

Kerry Gaeltacht: Yes = 68%, Kerry Constituency as a whole on the other hand only 58.3% Yes.

Sources
Gaeltacht Result: https://tuairisc.ie/an-reifreann-sa-ghaeltacht-briseadh-sios-ar-na-votai-o-gach-ceantar/
Constituency Result: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/abortion-referendum/results

I suspect that one of the reasons you didn't back up your opinion with any facts to support it, is that there are no facts to support it.

You suspect wrong!

PeadarCo · 17-10-2018 6:13pm

Matt Barrett wrote:

As an English speaker I hope we retain both. It's just practical. We can't dismiss Irish, this being Ireland and all.

If a person wants the Irish language to stay alive they have to speak the language. Anything else is empty platitudes. On a day to day level in Ireland the majority of people in Ireland have dismissed the language. The vast majority don't speak to such an extent that its very hard that to deal with at least some government departments its completely impractical. When you say we as in the people of Ireland can't dismiss the Irish language, the unfortunate reality is the population as a whole have dismissed the language for day to day use. The issues Irish speakers have is largely driven by that ie the attitude why can't you just English (meaning don't use Irish if you actually want to do something)

What the Irish language needs is to maintain and ideally increase the number of competent speakers of the language. Without that providing even government services on a reasonable basis becomes impossible. Which just further discourages use of the language.

no.8 · 17-10-2018 6:38pm

Mark Hamill wrote:

Our language is English. It is the language the country operates in and the language the native population speaks from birth. Anything else is wishful thinking. Your last sentence is just a dumb strawman.

I'm sorry, but you see, you have simplistic viewpoints throughout. Look closer at minority native languages in Europe. They are certainly proud, many practicing and wouldn't abandon their heritage to keep the close-minded happy

James Brown · 17-10-2018 6:41pm

PeadarCo wrote: »

If a person wants the Irish language to stay alive they have to speak the language. Anything else is empty platitudes. On a day to day level in Ireland the majority of people in Ireland have dismissed the language. The vast majority don't speak to such an extent that its very hard that to deal with at least some government departments its completely impractical. When you say we as in the people of Ireland can't dismiss the Irish language, the unfortunate reality is the population as a whole have dismissed the language for day to day use. The issues Irish speakers have is largely driven by that ie the attitude why can't you just English (meaning don't use Irish if you actually want to do something)

What the Irish language needs is to maintain and ideally increase the number of competent speakers of the language. Without that providing even government services on a reasonable basis becomes impossible. Which just further discourages use of the language.

I agree with much of what you say here.
I would however disagree to an extent. I don't speak French. I do not dismiss it, I merely don't use it. If I'm brought up speaking English and use English in my daily life, I'm not dismissing or denigrating a language I do not use. I merely don't use it. Do I support the use of Irish? Yes. Is that a requirement? No. The Irish language is of Ireland, will always be.
We cannot claim ownership of the English language how ever much we use it, how ever recognised it is. It's an official language as is Irish, however, Irish is of Ireland.

Hotblack Desiato · 17-10-2018 6:43pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

As an English speaker I hope we retain both. It's just practical. We can't dismiss Irish, this being Ireland and all.

We should retain a special status for Irish but maintaining in our constitution that it is the primary language of the Irish people is delusional.

Hotblack Desiato · 17-10-2018 6:46pm

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Conservative Catholicism is not something unique to or even particularly ascociated with the Irish language or its speakers.

LOL. Have a look at any abortion thread on boards, or marriage equality from 3 years ago, and see what the vast vast majority of Irish usernames are posting.

In reality, the Catholic church was an anglicising force in Ireland pre-independance. But don't let historical accuracy get in the way of a good rant.

The RCC hierarchy support whichever side will best protect their money and power. Once it was clear the British would lose, they switched sides.

Imreoir2 · 17-10-2018 6:49pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

LOL. Have a look at any abortion thread on boards, or marriage equality from 3 years ago, and see what the vast vast majority of Irish usernames are posting.

Ok, we could look at the user name of posters in an abortion thread on a message board, or we could look at the abortion referendum result in Irish speaking areas.

I guess its up to you to choose which is the more reliable source of data.

James Brown · 17-10-2018 6:50pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

We should retain a special status for Irish but maintaining in our constitution that it is the primary language of the Irish people is delusional.

I would remove the word primary. It is the language of the Irish people.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

LOL. Have a look at any abortion thread on boards, or marriage equality from 3 years ago, and see what the vast vast majority of Irish usernames are posting.

The RCC hierarchy support whichever side will best protect their money and power. Once it was clear the British would lose, they switched sides.

Well he showed stats. You got any?

The RCC are capable of their own nefarious shenanigans in any language.

Hotblack Desiato · 17-10-2018 7:09pm

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Ok, we could look at the user name of posters in an abortion thread on a message board, or we could look at the abortion referendum result in Irish speaking areas.

Less than average in all but one of the examples you gave
Many people in these areas are not Irish speakers anyway.

Hotblack Desiato · 17-10-2018 7:13pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Well he showed stats. You got any?

You want stats of what, boards?

It's just something I've noticed, it's very noticeable in fact on any thread where there's a conservative catholicism viewpoint being voiced.

Back in real life, post-independence there was a cabal who tried to equate being Irish with being RC worshipping, GAA supporting, FF voting, and Irish speaking, and sneered down their noses at anyone who didn't live up to their self-proclaimed high standards. (Preferably rural born too, sure those "Jackeens" are just "West Brits" :rolleyes: ) and haven't this crowd done so, so spectacularly well in alienating the overwhelming majority of the Irish people and destroying whatever slim prospect there might have been for an Irish language revival.

Imreoir2 · 17-10-2018 7:28pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Less than average in all but one of the examples you gave
Many people in these areas are not Irish speakers anyway.

Ok, we could look at some of the most Irish speaking areas in the Gaeltacht, take Inis Mór, Galway - 68% Yes, or Dún Chaoin, Kerry - 72% Yes, or Baile an Fheirtéaraigh, Kerry - 73% Yes. All above the national average yes vote.

madbeanman · 17-10-2018 7:33pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

LOL. Have a look at any abortion thread on boards, or marriage equality from 3 years ago, and see what the vast vast majority of Irish usernames are posting.

Cool, I’m a gay Irish speaker who lives in the Pale and will be voting to take blasphemy out of the constitution (or at least I would but I will be unfortunately out of the country on that day).

Also, please note the arguments between Imreoir and An Capaill Dubh (sic) in which the latter took a somewhat anti-Irish language stance just earlier on in this very thread.

Me being liberal proves nothing about Irish language speakers. An Capaill Dubh proves nothing about Irish language speakers on boards. It’s nonsense

James Brown · 17-10-2018 7:38pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

You want stats of what, boards?

It's just something I've noticed, it's very noticeable in fact on any thread where there's a conservative catholicism viewpoint being voiced.

Back in real life, post-independence there was a cabal who tried to equate being Irish with being RC worshipping, GAA supporting, FF voting, and Irish speaking, and sneered down their noses at anyone who didn't live up to their self-proclaimed high standards. (Preferably rural born too, sure those "Jackeens" are just "West Brits" :rolleyes: ) and haven't this crowd done so, so spectacularly well in alienating the overwhelming majority of the Irish people and destroying whatever slim prospect there might have been for an Irish language revival.

You infer that Irish speakers have a propensity to be hardcore conservative RCC bigots based on your Boards.ie musings.
Interesting tidbit, if pretty much irrelevant. Some Irish speakers were bigots and likely still are.
Every section of society has it's jack asses.
Should we go into the Black and Tans as an example of all English speakers? No, because that would be ridiculous.

blanch152 · 17-10-2018 8:19pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

You want stats of what, boards?

It's just something I've noticed, it's very noticeable in fact on any thread where there's a conservative catholicism viewpoint being voiced.

Back in real life, post-independence there was a cabal who tried to equate being Irish with being RC worshipping, GAA supporting, FF voting, and Irish speaking, and sneered down their noses at anyone who didn't live up to their self-proclaimed high standards. (Preferably rural born too, sure those "Jackeens" are just "West Brits" :rolleyes: ) and haven't this crowd done so, so spectacularly well in alienating the overwhelming majority of the Irish people and destroying whatever slim prospect there might have been for an Irish language revival.

This is exactly the point I am making. The unholy coalition of Catholic, GAA, Fianna Fail and Irish speakers imposed a cultural control on this country for nearly a century that had diabolical consequences. From the sex abusers of the Catholic Church to the lawmakers of FF to the foreign games bans of the GAA, to the sneering exclusivity of the Irish language industry, a country was held back. As a country, we should be ashamed of how we treated women and children, censored free speech, banned divorce, abortion and homosexuality, all in the name of an Irish Ireland for the Irish.

Hotblack Desiato · 17-10-2018 8:56pm

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Ok, we could look at some of the most Irish speaking areas in the Gaeltacht, take Inis MGalway - 68% Yes, or Dún Chaoin, Kerry - 72% Yes, or Baile an Fheirtaigh, Kerry - 73% Yes. All above the national average yes vote.

Grand so. #hometovote in the areas of Ireland with the biggest migration/emigration perhaps? Being on the voting register there is no use to the Irish language if you're not living there speaking it daily

This started when blanch152 mentioned the connection before and in the decades after independence between conservative RC identity and the Irish language, it wasn't in relation to a vote this year.

madbeanman wrote: »

Also, please note the arguments between Imreoir and An Capaill Dubh (sic) in which the latter took a somewhat anti-Irish language stance just earlier on in this very thread.

Yes I noticed that

I don't think there's a wider significance to what language people choose for their boards username, it's just an anecdote, but it is something that I did find quite noticeable on social issues threads.

feargale · 17-10-2018 8:58pm

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Parents in Galway, with little interest in Irish, started sending their kids to gaelscoils in larger numbers during the boom times in order to keep their kids away from immigrants from Eastern Europe and Africa. Some openly admitted it. Very few children of non-nationals go to gaelscoils. It's racism or xenophobia or both for many parents. It's certainly not the love of the language.

If we are to abolish every public service that some people abuse we will find ourselves living in caves.

James Brown · 17-10-2018 9:18pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Grand so. #hometovote in the areas of Ireland with the biggest migration/emigration perhaps? Being on the voting register there is no use to the Irish language if you're not living there speaking it daily

This started when blanch152 mentioned the connection before and in the decades after independence between conservative RC identity and the Irish language, it wasn't in relation to a vote this year.

Yes I noticed that

I don't think there's a wider significance to what language people choose for their boards username, it's just an anecdote, but it is something that I did find quite noticeable on social issues threads.

You raised the Irish username/RCC conservative connection.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

LOL. Have a look at any abortion thread on boards, or marriage equality from 3 years ago, and see what the vast vast majority of Irish usernames are posting.....

So we can knock that anecdote on the head. Grand.
I'm pretty sure we'd similar folk who spoke English.
Trying to make it political or on the side of bigots is silly.

feargale · 17-10-2018 9:34pm

blanch152 wrote: »

This is exactly the point I am making. The unholy coalition of Catholic, GAA, Fianna Fail and Irish speakers imposed a cultural control on this country for nearly a century that had diabolical consequences. From the sex abusers of the Catholic Church to the lawmakers of FF to the foreign games bans of the GAA, to the sneering exclusivity of the Irish language industry, a country was held back. As a country, we should be ashamed of how we treated women and children, censored free speech, banned divorce, abortion and homosexuality, all in the name of an Irish Ireland for the Irish.

Oh sweet Jesus! Irish speakers were responsible for all the abuse that happened in Ireland :rolleyes: Read Cúirt an Mheàn Oíche sometime. Get your hands on a few copies of The Bell magazine, and check out the list of its editors. I knew Máirtín Ó Cadhain and if you think he was a friend of religion or the conservatism that plagued Ireland in his time you don't know your elbow from your ass.
And also @ Hotblack Desatio: Typical of Board's A&A evangelists to bring Catholicism and its place in Ireland of the Dark Ages into a discussion of the Irish language. I've always maintained that if I started a thread on the weather some of them would find a reason to blame the Pope for the rain. Obsession is not good for people and they should have it treated. Furthermore it gives atheism and agnosticism a bad name.
Now can we talk about Irish, please? There are other threads for those who want to "buy a penny rope and hang the f----g Pope."

P.S. If you and your fellow A&A posters wanted to do something constructive for a change you could mount a campaign for a yes vote in the Blasphemy referendum. I haven't heard a word about it.

feargale · 17-10-2018 10:03pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Because of the nationalist narrative of 800 years of oppression, our Anglo heritage, not just in language terms, has been unfairly marginalised and not celebrated as it should.

If you were referring to the vast number of people who served the British administration, including those who served in WWI you might have a point, and likewise if you were arguing that the Irish language was accorded a greater status than it should have. But to say that Anglo culture or language was otherwise marginalised is nonsense.

blanch152 wrote: »

I will elaborate in full detail when I get the change, but one thought as an example of what I am thinking about.

Consider the difference between Sean O'Riada and Phil Lynnott or Van Morrison in terms of what it means to be Irish.

When did you last meet a kid who had heard of Sean Ó Riada but not of Phil Lynnott or Van Morrison? I would guess not even in the last few weeks of the Presieential campaign.

blanch152 · 17-10-2018 10:08pm

feargale wrote: »

Oh sweet Jesus! Irish speakers were responsible for all the abuse that happened in Ireland :rolleyes: Read Cúirt an Mheàn Oíche sometime. Get your hands on a few copies of The Bell magazine, and check out the list of its editors. I knew Máirtín Ó Cadhain and if you think he was a friend of religion or the conservatism that plagued Ireland in his time you don't know your elbow from your ass.
And also @ Hotblack Desatio: Typical of Board's A&A evangelists to bring Catholicism and its place in Ireland of the Dark Ages into a discussion of the Irish language. I've always maintained that if I started a thread on the weather some of them would find a reason to blame the Pope for the rain. Obsession is not good for people and they should have it treated. Furthermore it gives atheism and agnosticism a bad name.
Now can we talk about Irish, please? There are other threads for those who want to "buy a penny rope and hang the f----g Pope."

P.S. If you and your fellow A&A posters wanted to do something constructive for a change you could mount a camoaign for a yes vote in the Blasphemy referendum. I haven't heard a word about it.

Put things in my mouth that I never said.

I never said that Irish speakers were responsible for all the abuse that happened in Ireland. That is just a strawman you have thrown up.

What I am saying is that FF, the Catholic Church, the GAA and the Irish language movement all prospered in the same conditions and with the same superior exclusionist attitude. The GAA has reformed - removal of the various bans has shown enlightenment, but the attitude towards "foreign" games remains in its restrictions on the use of its grounds. But there has been little or no change in the others.

feargale · 18-10-2018 12:03am

blanch152 wrote: »

Put things in my mouth that I never said.

I never said that Irish speakers were responsible for all the abuse that happened in Ireland. That is just a strawman you have thrown up.

What I am saying is that FF, the Catholic Church, the GAA and the Irish language movement [Ball prospered[/B] in the same conditions and with the same superior exclusionist attitude.

No! This is what you said (and I may be wrong, but I think it has been taken down. I can't find it.):

blanch152 wrote: »

The unholy coalition of Catholic, GAA, Fianna Fail and Irish speakers imposed a cultural control on this country for nearly a century that had diabolical consequences. From the sex abusers of the Catholic Church to the lawmakers of FF to the foreign games bans of the GAA, to the sneering exclusivity of the Irish language industry, a country was held back.

On issues aside from the language Irish speakers have been a very broad church, including the aforementioned Máirtín Ó Cadhain, James Owen Hannay alias George A. Birmingham, Micheál Mac Liammoir, George Otto Simms, Máire mhac an tSaoi and Alex Foster. Among members of your own party were Piaras Béaslai and Earnàn de Blaghd long ago, as well as James Dillon who was in the habit of holidaying in Connemara. More recent was Alan Dukes. Should I include Joe McHugh? John B. Keane of the Language Freedom Movement was another.

As for FF's unholy coalition with the RCC, point taken, but don't forget FG's equally unholy alliance. I am thinking in particular of the Censorship of Pulications Act 1926 ( you did refer to censorship, didn't you?), the Spanish Civil War and the Mother and Child Bill.

blanch152 wrote: »

The GAA has reformed - removal of the various bans has shown enlightenment, but the attitude towards "foreign" games remains in its restrictions on the use of its grounds. But there has been little or no change in the others.

As for the GAA you seem a little unhappy about the progress made. Let's see Windsor Park giving a dig-out to the GAA while Casement Park is being sorted out.
You do know, don't you, that the GAA was not alone in the business of banning? Right up to the 1970s Jews couldn't get into most Dublin golf clubs. Rugby Union banned Rugby League. Etc.

Imreoir2 · 18-10-2018 12:08am

blanch152 wrote: »

Put things in my mouth that I never said.

I never said that Irish speakers were responsible for all the abuse that happened in Ireland. That is just a strawman you have thrown up.

What I am saying is that FF, the Catholic Church, the GAA and the Irish language movement all prospered in the same conditions and with the same superior exclusionist attitude. The GAA has reformed - removal of the various bans has shown enlightenment, but the attitude towards "foreign" games remains in its restrictions on the use of its grounds. But there has been little or no change in the others.

Would you mind backing up your claims with some evidence?

Hotblack Desiato · 18-10-2018 1:27am

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You raised the Irish username/RCC conservative connection.

Yes, I did. But the bit you bolded wasn't about that, it was about what blanch152 was talking about, as I said. Maybe try reading it again.

So we can knock that anecdote on the head. Grand.
I'm pretty sure we'd similar folk who spoke English.
Trying to make it political or on the side of bigots is silly.

Whoosh again.
There aren't a huge number of regular posters with Irish usernames on the site.
The vast majority of them I saw on social issues threads were putting forward a very conservative catholic viewpoint. The majority of English usernames were not.
It's not meant to be any mega serious point, but it happened and it was quite noticeable.

@feargale Giving atheism a bad name, I got a laugh out of that so thanks. Maybe Michael Nugent will excommunicate me or something.

Sycamore Tree · 18-10-2018 9:32am

Imreoir2 wrote: »

These are extreme and serious claims, I really hope you have some evidence of descrimination to substantiate them.

Of course, I already know that you have no evidence to support your opinions, they are compleate nonsense. But go ahead, prove me wrong, lets see it.

Unfortunately there is no data to back my assertions up. It would be very very difficult to prove without a clandestine investigation. My post has been reported numerous times so I will consider myself gagged.

The Irish Language and the Irish Government

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