Wheel of Time (Amazon)

pixelburp

It won't win awards for cinematography no, but I've been impressed enough with the production values of this season. Calling it CW level is unfair - and suggests the user watch more CW shows hehe 😆 It has felt more cohesive than other shows like Witcher, for instance.

This year there has been Far less of that feeling of what the Americans call a Renaissance Fair with its sundry towns (Two Rivers being especially awful last year); places having a better sense of place and that lived-in quality.

Flinty997

I thought the seanchan looked poor.

The main change for me is there's a lot more going on and it's focused more on the action. Instead whatever agenda it was trying to do in S1.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117771#Comment_121117771

Costume is great but the first 2 episodes the camera work has been horrendous.

Tar Valon looks the part now, at least

I'm out, I really did try. Got to the start of episode 4 and had enough.

My wife basically said that she would need to have read the books to know the relevance of places/people/things but sees how bad that would be for a book reader, looking at me.

Enjoy it, if you are, just definitely not for me.

3 fantasy book series have had their transitions to screen ruined, for me, by showrunners/writers who never wanted to tell the author's vision, thinking that their vision is more important.

Such a pity. I'll un sub from this thread. Don't want to pollute it for people enjoying the show

Dany Hitch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108037#Comment_121108037

Ah yes, "the slog." Be prepared for over descriptive journeys, how to take your tea, lace, gilded furniture and eh, more lace! All joking aside, it's a good idea to read New Spring now: it explains more of Moiraine and Lan's backstories and a few others who are in the WoT series (don't want to give any spoilers away." Not as long a book as the others in the series but well worth reading.

I'm not too fussed on the characters features although I think they've done okay with the casting so far, improvements on costume and set and depiction of the use of the One Power is decent. As for the plot, there are multiple plot lines to be expanded and introduced. Hard to see how they will "fit it all in" given they have quite liberally hacked at some of the original material but on balance, commercial pressures were always going to affect the production. I'd love to see more of the Forsaken and their meetings, scheming, etc. There are plenty more surprises to follow...

pixelburp

Finished episode 3 and this has been such a marked improvement as a show: better paced, better structure and splitting up the characters for rid of that sense of a warmed-up Fellowship of the Ring. I feel broadly invested in these characters' journeys now, with the execption of Rand. The actor's "smell the fart" expression and whispered delivery has been annoying, and haven't warmed to him at all.

5starpool

Episode 6 was probably the best yet I thought. Min's story is taking a different direction so far though than expected.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121141431#Comment_121141431

In fairness to the actor playing Rand. He's had very little to do. I thought at one point they were going remove his character completely they had chopped so much of his story out with balefire.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121143859#Comment_121143859

Dunno what balefire is, not a book reader, but the actor is playing it very tortured and very CW. But the whole "burden of power" angle isn't easily done at the best of times.

Flinty997

CW?

He has no backstory in the TV show and often in very empty locations. So it looks IMO bit stiff to be so distant and tortured for no real reason and with no one else, and no situation to bounce off.

Imagine Anakin with no backstory other than being petulant.

Flinty997

I will agree it's getting better, but I think it's because it's focused on action less on agenda.

Sleepy

It's so long since I read the books that while I know there are changes to the plot happening, I can't immediately call them out. I'm still enjoying it enough to continue with it.

TitianGerm

It's been years since I read the books so nothing is fresh in my head but from what I remember of the sections covered in episode 7 they've messed around massively and ruined them for me. They even relegated some 9f the more impactful parts to mere irrelevance.

pixelburp

Been a while since I watched this so came back, and watched episodes 4 through up to 6; six was an absolute barnstormer, cos this show suddenly has energy, stakes and a real palpable sense of danger now that the crummy Fellowship / Chosen One plotline from Season 1 has been truly wrapped up.

Egwene's story went from one of general mediocrity down a really dark, tragic path where I'm now rather worried for her & how she gets out of her truly awful predicament. The leashing and muzzling of female casters a particularly nasty, but original touch on what had been a broadly by-the-books High Fantasy.

The actor playing Perrin remains the biggest weak link and he's a pretty terrible performer; everyone else has seemed "right" in their roles, even if I've been harsh on the guy playing Rand, not least 'cos he has got better once his storyline got more interesting; but Perrin has this constant flat delivery like he's reading the lines for the first time. It doesn't help that I generally find the whole Wolf / Werewolf thing a bit yawn.

Flinty997

Fantasy stories often throw everything in a story including the kitchen sink. Perrin's story line feels a bit redundant even in the books. But it's one of those fantasy tropes of a party of characters with different strengths.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247795#Comment_121247795

For sure, and I might be kinder were Perrin not such a truly woeful actor. as I said I dumped on Rand but he has got better as his arc started opening up. We hadn't really spent enough time with Perrin, but by episode 6 I'm like GTFO with your hokey animal warg nonsense -and take some acting lessons. It has been especially egregious after episode 6 just watched and Egwene put through the ringer; that actor really putting in a pretty despairing, physical performance. I'd say she loved that cos up til now Egwene was just ... there. Suddenly I'm invested, and Princess Disney and Nynaeve themselves have something to do with a bit of an emotional ticking clock. Those leashed casters suddenly never more dangerous.

There have been pages of dissection of the books v. TV show but honestly, speaking as one ignorant of the books Season 2 has been a marked improvement just in terms of being "A Good TV Show". But I'm also appreciative that adaptations always make changes, mergers and outright removals during the translation; Tom Bombadil says hello from purgatory lol. I'm sure had I read WoT during formative years the change of X might cause more upset.

I remember reading The Magicians after the SyFy show finished up and one of the first, more surprising aspects was the show's latter protagonist Margo didn't exist in the books. She was, IIRC, a merger of a different character who herself didn't exist in the TV show - Margo was pure invention. Then of course you have The Watch, that BBC3 show that we should NEVER SPEAK OF, whose changes were so wholesale as to basically taint the possibility of a Discworld adaptation for years.

Flinty997

Obviously the TV show is different to the books because of all the pointless changes. But the TV show is being forced back to the main story arcs of the story. So they've less time to faff about.

Perrin in the books had a little John of robin hood vibe about it. I think the TV script isn't doing the actors any favours.

The was an opportunity in the show to reduce the amount of faffing about in the books, cut it all out and focus on the main parts of the story. Instead in the first series they replaced it with a different faffing about. One that makes less sense IMO.

5starpool

Season 2 a definite improvement over season 1 at least, and the last few episodes (especially ep 6) were the best so far. Some of the changes from the books made sense in the context of the show, some were disappointing. I was very disappointed with the heroes of the horn bit particularly. There are some upcoming bits (that I won't mention because of spoilers) that they are clearly doing because of events kicked off here that I hope they do far more briefly and better than in the books. In the books at least there was the latitude to do long descriptions and arcs that aren't immediately relevant to the main story, but in TV land I wonder how they are going to keep them relevant and interesting with only 8 episodes per season?

Is there anything to be said for a book readers WOT TV discussion thread and a non book readers one? One or both might get lost in this fast moving forum, perhaps something in the scifi forum instead might be more appropriate?

Brief_Lives

considering it took book 3 to announce the dragon reborn... its a completely different story. I think the book readers realize that. no need for multiple threads.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121255375#Comment_121255375

Wait, really? I'm broadly disinterested in how the books shape up against the TV show (just a choice, not a criticism of others mind you), but if it took 3 books to reveal that then ... uh, how long are those novels? LOL.

Brief_Lives

long.... very very long....

utterly different to the tv series.. and the book readers realise that.

Flinty997

I think you'd struggle to discuss the TV plot without referring to the books for context. I don't think the TV show makes enough coherent sense on its own. Perhaps others feel differently about it.

I think you could chop about 50% of the books and be better for it. More concise and clarity. It certainly didn't any more fluff added, as they did.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121255497#Comment_121255497

Meh: I can't say I've found anything that leaves me confused that I'd say it's not coherent TBH. Everything has been clear enough, even if as I said, I find High Fantasy names a mouthful to remember. Unless there's something you feel would confuse non book readers?

I will say one big problem that hasn't been addressed is how large this world is meant to be - a world map or some proper sense of distance might help get the sense how close those Fingernail Enthusiasts are to the White Tower (which I presume to be the world's centre?). The dialogue seems to imply they're just rumours on the far edge of the world?

Flinty997

There's a map here.

https://www.polygon.com/23852538/wheel-of-time-map-randland-westlands

5starpool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121255410#Comment_121255410

It was similar in some ways to the tv show, but at the end of book 2 he had a much better reveal (not a spoiler to say how it happened in the books when it has happened on TV already imo) where he had a big flame sword duel with Ishamael that was projected in the sky and he killed him that way, rather than walking up to him and sticking him in the belly like the TV show and then Moraine using magic to fashion a dragon. Much better in the books imo. Not everything will be and the show has done a couple of things better already, but the fight with Ishamael and the dragon reveal, plus the heroes of the horn of valere bits were much better in the books.

It took Rand longer in the books I think though to accept himself as the dragon.

Markitron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121257702#Comment_121257702

Yea I think he only really embraces/accepts it at the end of book 3, which it seems they are pretty much skipping in the show. We already know where he is going in season 3 so the show and books are essentially aligned in having him become the Dragon before he goes there.

Flinty997

Tbh they chopped so much of the main character I thought they were going to make one of women the main character, even the dragon..

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121257702#Comment_121257702

he had a big flame sword duel with Ishamael that was projected in the sky and he killed him that way ...

You said this and I immediately thought of Big Trouble in Little China where a similar "shadow" battle ensued; so not sure I'd have taken a true adaptation seriously, as I'd just have thought of James Wong wiggling his fingers like he was holding a video-game controller 🤣

https://youtu.be/dME9-07ZvJI?t=82

Flinty997

That's nothing like a flaming sword. Theres a flaming sword in GOT and a light sabre basically the same thing.

pixelburp

It was a joke? It was just how it was described & the fighting across the sky 😂