Planning permission up for greenway from Youghal to Midleton

Bacchus

I'm planning on using the new greenway to commute to the train station in Midleton but I also hope to use an eScooter for that so banning electric bikes/scooters would be a insult to injury when I'd have much preferred the rail-line be restored in the first place. I will make the most out of having a greenway close by but I will never accept that a greenway was the better option over a functioning train line from Youghal to the city.

The debate on the scenery of the route has some merit IMO. The Dungarvan greenway is a tourist attraction as well as a local amenity. This barren stretch between Youghal and Midleton won't have that same draw. Not saying it won't be busy with locals mind you, and I too appreciate having a safe space to go for a cycle with the kids.

hans aus dtschl

Killeagh to Midleton is 12km, and absolutely pan flat: I cycle a normal bike (not e-bike!) much further than that for my commute and my commute is extremely hilly and in traffic. There's also no talk of banning e-scooters or e-bikes. I don't know who's bringing that up, but it can't possibly fly for so many reasons it's not even worth getting into. Suffice to say: it's unenforceable and it's nonsense.

But besides all of that, IT'S NOT BEING DESIGNED AS A COMMUTER CORRIDOR. It's an amenity. Like a very long park. With an absence of public parks in Mogeely, Killeagh, Dungourney, Ladysbridge, etc, this is where some people will be able to go.

It's unreasonable to say "Bury's Bridge is near an urban area so of course it will be successful" because there was literally nobody ever walking between Burys Bridge and Little Island before the greenway was built. Never. Never ever. I was on it probably tens of thousands of times and it was simply not a "thing". Now it's extremely popular. Everyone local comes out of the woodwork because it's nice, it's safe etc. It's an amenity. It looks onto an industrial facility on one side and a rock face on the other, and people flock to it.

It's all well and good for us to say "the rail line to Youghal should be reinstated instead" but IÉ have absolutely no intention of doing it in the near or medium-term future. We can go over it again and again if ye want, but the synopsis is if you want to restore that rail corridor, your best bet is to start pushing for Mogeely UEZ or SDZ. Which I'm in favour of, btw.

But this thing of "we shouldn't do the Midleton Youghal greenway because of scenery" or "because of rail" is just nonsense. For one thing, this greenway is explicitly part of pathfinder now. It's not going away. It's going to be part of a corridor to Waterford. And hopefully rail will come back too, but I just can't understand the negativity around this one. It seems totally unfounded. It's an amenity in East Cork, where previously there was none.

"I'd much rather it was left to ruin and squatters"

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570352#Comment_121570352

Great post. The last commuter train was 60 years ago, so IE has had 6 decades to look at the feasibility of this.

When is the Midleton -> Mogeely section opening?

hans aus dtschl

Unfortunately I've seen no official dates yet.

BUT (sorry more vague info) I believe Pathfinder is currently committing to Oct 2025, which is not only this section but stretches either side (reaching Cork and Dungarvan). Seems highly optimistic to me but something to dream about while we wait for the long-overdue Midleton piece.

nokiatom

If the Greenway didn't go ahead then the land would go back to the farmers because Irish Rail wanted it off their hands as maintaining unused rail lines and bridges cost a lot of money. Now the land is still owned by Irish Rail.

niloc1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570352#Comment_121570352

The greenway between the Elm Tree and Burrys Bridge is a very interesting, pleasant, and relaxing place to walk or cycle, there is also the lovely Harpers Island along the way. I'm very familiar with it.

I'm also familiar with the as-yet unopened, greenway from Midleton to Youghal which is a simple strip of tarmac running along flat farmland and mostly between trees and hedging, My personal choice for a bit of outdoor exercise would certainly be in the direction of Glaunthaune.

One person's treasure is another's junk, c'est la vie

A rail link to Youghal in the not-too-distant future should not be so easily discounted, given the current and growing traffic volumes on the N25 and the need to urgently move away from fossil fuel dependent personal motorised commuting. Finally, your fitness to commute as you do is commendable but perhaps not indicative of the prowess of the general commuting population.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570689#Comment_121570689

You don't seem to understand. There aren't enough people in Mogeely, Youghal, Killeagh and that's why IÉ don't have interest. That's also why an UEA or SDZ are needed to prompt extension of the line. I'm in favour of it. The greenway doesn't prevent it, rather it preserves the possibility.

And again, you still keep talking about choice between greenways. That you'd prefer Dungarvan over Youghal, Glounthaune over Midleton. It's an irrelevant point: I'd prefer an evening out in Amsterdam over an evening out in Cork, but proximity plays an oversized role in my choice. It seems that you fundamentally don't understand what's drawing people to the greenway in question, despite being very familiar with it. I observe people coming from Knockraha, Upper Glanmire, and all sorts of nearby places because it's a nearby pleasant spot for dog-walking, walking with children, going for a cycle etc. It's not people coming from far away, it's local people availing of an amenity. It's not because it's urban, rather it's because it's of high quality.

And my fitness to commute is extremely far from being unique. But even at that, most people intending to commute (like a previous poster in this thread) will get an e-bike or e-scooter. Fitness almost doesn't enter into a discussion about distance and time: it's a very very commutable distance, particularly because it's flat. The vast majority of people in Ireland have a 20-30 minute commute, and that's what this would be.

I'm going to level with you: I might be wrong but it seems to me that you're mostly hung up on the rail element of this. I strongly suggest you go to infrastructure or "commuting and transport" forums to discuss that point. This line has not been included on the Cork commuter rail strategy, on pathfinder, on the all-Ireland rail strategy, in CMATS, in the Cork County Development Plan etc. In every single transport discussion, this line has been turned down. There have been repeated opportunities to address this issue over the past year or two. Rail to Youghal is not happening for the medium term. It seems madness to me, to keep bringing it up on the greenway thread. It seems like a textbook example of letting the perfect prevent the good.

This greenway won't be perfect. Absolutely. I'd prefer lots of changes to it. But saying that it should be rail instead? What's the point of that discussion? You might as well say there should be an airport and hospital there, it's not going to happen.

Bacchus

On the eScooter thing. I cycle generally. For my commute, I want something I can fold up and put on the train. That is all. Good to hear the possibility of banning them is unfounded.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574201#Comment_121574201

Yeah it's unenforceable and it would be a pointless exercise.

When descending it's hard to tell the difference between someone moving on an e-scooter/bike and someone moving on a non-e version of same. So there's no real difference in the potential speed they can travel at, only in the effort of the end user to achieve the speed. E-bikes already cut out at 25km/h by law. E-scooters are 20km/h. So it's already possible that the non-e versions can travel faster, it just takes more energy to do it.

And thus, since there won't be speed limits on the greenway, and since there's already laws governing the use of e-scooters/bikes, what would be the benefit of introducing an arbitrary law for a greenway? As per the RSA: same rules that apply to cyclists will apply to e-scooters once the legislation is in place.

You've nothing to worry about here unless you have an e-bike or e-scooter that's illegally modified to achieve higher speeds. Which I'm sure you'd never do.

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570604#Comment_121570604

When had irish rail last done anything along the line ? I dont think there was much physical cost in having it , the fencing around youghal station was probably the biggest cost ..

nokiatom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121600039#Comment_121600039

Well if you put all the unused railway lines together in the country then it would come to a significant cost. By the way the first railway bridge at Youghal had to be rebuilt,

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121600737#Comment_121600737

Wow , when ?

And whats the story with irish rail divesting its self of a line , does someone have to own it ? Do the council just assume liability for the structures ,? Or does it remain with irish rail ,

I'm thinking if the various viaducts , embankments and old stations around tbe country that belonged to irish rails predecessors

hans aus dtschl

They actually sold the land on those old lines they got rid of in the 60's, so yep someone does own them. I think the council must have assumed liability for those structures, but I would have doubts whether this was done in a controlled formal way!

Remember that Youghal was kept though: the line was sprayed a few times in the 90's or so which I remember, but the bit East of Midleton really fell into disrepair since the turn of the century after Midleton section was done. So the farm/building encroachment on it is all fairly recent, maybe 20 years or so.

nokiatom

The council have leased the land from Irish Rail. Youghal / Midleton line was never sold back to the farmers but some farmers did encroach on it.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121605961#Comment_121605961

Yes exactly. To be clear, when I say that IÉ sold the land on those old lines they got rid of in the 60's I'm referring to, for instance, the West Cork lines.

Youghal was, is, and will be owned by IÉ, is the current situation and has been confirmed as such by IÉ.

niloc1951

Just to be pedantic. The ownership of lands, including the permanent way, stations, etc is vested in CIÉ. CIÉ's Property Department is responsible for the letting and sale of property which is not required for operational use

Irish Rail aka IÉ is an operating company within the CIÉ Group and is responsible for maintaining the rail infrastructure and operating the services on it.

In the same way as a Ministerial Order is required to set up a railway line a Ministerial Order is also required to have a railway line declared abandoned, until such time that a line is officially declared abandoned by The Minister IÉ remains responsible for any bridges.

nokiatom

UPDATE on The Youghal to Midleton Greenway......

Youghal Chamber of Tourism and Development president Kay Curtin Kay's flowers at Clarke's was speaking to Deputy David Stanton this morning Re the greenway and he informed her that phase 1 Midleton to Mogeely will be open before the end of March and phase 2 Mogeely to Youghal will be open by the end of 2024.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640697#Comment_121640697

The Mogeely stop is nearly completed now and I have to say it looks very well. They have it all cobbled and have added benches and bike racks.

I expect there's more to do, but the actual greenway looks to be complete.

Bacchus

Yeah the Mogeely stop has been done up nicely. With the new housing development going in there too, Mogeely is really coming on nicely, and is ideally situated as a commuter village (either to Midleton or onwards to the city).

nokiatom

Cllr Danielle Twomey

The greenway is opening on march 7th 

The first section of the Midleton to Youghal Greenway from Midleton to Mogeely will take place on Thursday morning the 7th of March. (time TBC)

The remainder of the Greenway will be opened during 2024 and I will keep you updated on this as more information becomes available.

Markcheese

Thats welcome news -

nokiatom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v86xmFHZl4

New video of the Greenway

deRanged

officially opened yesterday, though it's been in use all week. I'm hoping to get down on the bike tomorrow to try it out.

niloc1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121815172#Comment_121815172

Weren't the Victorians farseeing builders of infrastructure, note the future-proofed bridges, built to accommodate a double track. Our current infrastructure designers could take a leaf out of their book.

Markcheese

Had a quick wander up a few km of the green way today ( got chance after i finished work ) ,started at midleton train station ,

Honestly, really impressed

It felt open and spacious, -for a railway line .its basically a linear park ,

And plenty of people using it ..

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876607#Comment_121876607

I walked maybe halfway from Mogeely yesterday. The Mogeely stop is like a little town square, with toilets, water, and seating. Honestly it's a fantastic feature for such a small village.

When it's completed you will be able to cycle from Cork city to Glounthaine, Carrigtwohill, Midleton, Mogeely/Castlemartyr and Killeagh, each less than 10km from the other.

nokiatom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878414#Comment_121878414

Is Youghal not included? lol

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878614#Comment_121878614

Hah, whoops!

I was thinking the waterford greenway only has a single stop, Kilmacthomas, in the entire 42km length.

Cork-Youghal has five in 48km.

I haven't looked at the route down to Kinsale yet.