EU to recommend abolishing DST

Hotblack Desiato

This country tried going its own way in everything in the past and it kept us an isolated, poor country. Feckin' EU, indeed 🙄

Ironically the one time we tried summertime year round, it was because the UK had already decided to trial it.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120390396#Comment_120390396

On the flip side, all year standard time would result in parts of the country not getting any daylight until 10am in the winter. So you might be right, maybe leaving things as they are is the least worst option?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120390853#Comment_120390853

Yes I remember the dark mornings around January, but it was far worse for the Scots and further north.

That was why it was abandoned, but I do agree that the end of winter time should be earlier (mid February).

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120391063#Comment_120391063

I looked for the latest sunrise in Ireland and found Belmullet to be probably the one of the latest sunrises in a densely populated part of the country, due it being about as far west AND north you can get. End of December and the sunrises as late as 09:00 so that would be 10:00 if we stayed on Standard Time all year but even at that, there'd be useable daylight before that. On a clear day, it would be usefully bright by 09:30. The earliest sunsets would be mid-December and with Standard Time all year, sunset would be 17:16. This would mean that you can add 20/30 minutes to this when it comes to usable light.

So, assuming it's a partly cloudy day, we'd have usable daylight from about 09:40 to about 17:30, or slightly later on a clear day. Sounds good to me!

prunudo

Twice a year this thread gets resurrected, albeit usually busier with the October change but I've always maintained a similar postion as that of @Fr Tod Umptious. Keep it as is or bring the March change back to start of the month or end Feb.

3am sunrises in summer are no use to anyone and I think people underestimate how the darkness at 9.30am on a cloudy wet winters day will feel in the long term.

But alas, we live in a democracy (supposedly) and the majority appear to want year round summertime because, partly it sounds nicer than year round wintertime.

Thelonious Monk

Any polls I've ever seen show ireland majorly in favour of summertime all year round. Every bloody year we talk and nothing happens. It'll never change.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120391643#Comment_120391643

You are correct, people are enticed by "All year summertime" because it does sound good.

But they are also enticed by the idea that they could do something outdoors in the evening in November, December and January, something that is not that easy to do currently in the dark.

But the reality is that there would be little opportunity to do outdoor activities that time of the year because the weather is so unpredictable.

Plus with regards the darkness in the morning with all year summertime, frost would take an extra hour to thaw because there would be no chance of sunlight if it's pitch dark.

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120391917#Comment_120391917

All year Standard Time for me please! It makes winter time sound sub-standard.

February just gone was generally a great month, plenty of calm & settled weather. Had we been observing Irish Standard Time back then, I could have been out and about after work in daylight till about 18:30 at the beginning of the month till about 19:00 or later towards the end of the month. My usual work shift ends around 17:30 so if WFH, I would have had about 60 - 90 minutes free after work to spend time outside in daylight and enjoy the fine weather of February bar time for a short walk or whatever towards the end of the month.

But alas, we aren't observing Irish Standard Time so instead you can take an hour of the above times which resulted in me missing out on post-work enjoyment outside in daylight. I'm sure there is a very large cohort of people in the same/similar situation as me during February. The second half of January in an Irish Standard Time world would even allow me to get a little bit of daylight outside after work!

randd1

Why don't we, when it's due to go back an hour, simply split the difference and go back a half hour and leave it at that?

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392083#Comment_120392083

Sounds like a good half way measure at a VERY high level but when your timezone is multiples of 30 minutes different from the vast majority of other timezones in the world, you'd quickly find that your idea would be difficult to work with when dealing with other countries.

dxhound2005

We only have the UK, Portugal and the Canaries in our zone, but even at that there are more considerations than the sunset time in Mayo or Dublin. Our friends on the mainland have 35 countries in their CET zone. All the way from the top of Norway to the bottom of Italy, and from Spain to the Poland Ukraine border.

No doubt some of them would like a 42/10 weeks DST, or a half hour difference to their neighbours. But it is a subject which needs a wider outlook.

highdef

Align Ireland and Portugal to the rest of the EU and we're all in harmony. UK is non-EU so they can do whatever they want. It would be better that Ireland (and Portugal) align with the rest of the EU than with any other non-EU countries. UK can follow suit if they wish but a non-EU country should have no say in decision making for an EU country. That's one of the main points of the European Union, the clue being in the name.

It should always be about geographical, not political location, too far north where timezones become irrelevant due to the day being less that 5 hours long in winter so the sunrise time will always be too late.

Those in southern Europe have no real need to change their clocks as the day length changes little over the year and all they're really doing is following the central European countries.

It is only for countries between 40 and 60 degrees that shifting sunrise & sunset one hour has any benefit, for the rest it is pointless.

dxhound2005

Time zones and EU membership are not related. What the EU has done is to get every member to co-ordinate DST dates.

Every country can choose its own zone, and just for convenience they are called e.g. Central European Time. Some EU member states like Finland and Greece are in the Eastern European Time zone, and obviously not all 35 CET countries are EU members.

eire4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120391979#Comment_120391979

Totally agree. All year standard time for me as well is my opinion. I do think we will get there at some point too.

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392243#Comment_120392243

OK, I picked Stockholm at random as it's located fairly far north @ just over 59° N. In June, the sun sets as late as just after 22:00 and as early as 03:30. I'm pretty sure that during the summer months, the locals would have no wanting for sunrise at around 02:30 with their long evening stunted by an hour.

Conversely, the latest sunrises in December are around 08:40 - 08:45 with earliest sunsets occurring just after 14:45. Whilst it's dark from mid afternoon and only getting light when on the way to work, the times are not too important. However, come around late February, the sun rises around 07:00 or earlier and sets around 17:00 or slightly later. I'm sure an 08:00 or slightly earlier sunrise and 18:00 or slightly later sunset in late February would be appreciated by many. Bright for when the majority of people would be getting up and still bright after work.

Having said that, I don't know if Nordic countries have different waking times to the likes of Ireland.

dxhound2005

You could have gone a bit further North. That's only a couple of degrees further North than Aberdeen.

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392349#Comment_120392349

There are not many large densely populated places much further north. OK, lets try Helsinki:

It's located a little further north again @ just over 60° N, similar to the Shetlands. In June, the sun sets as late as about 22:45 and as early as a little before 04:00. I'm pretty sure that during the summer months, the locals would have no wanting for sunrise at around or before 03:00 with their long evening stunted by an hour.

Conversely, the latest sunrises in December are around 09:15 - 09:25 with earliest sunsets occurring just after 15:10. Whilst it's dark from mid afternoon and still dark on the way to work, the times are not too important. However, come around late February, the sun rises around 07:30 or earlier and sets around 17:30 or slightly later. I'm sure an 08:30 or slightly earlier sunrise and 18:30 or slightly later sunset in late February would be appreciated by many. Bright/getting bright for when the majority of people would be getting up and still bright after work with enough time to spend some time outdoors in daylight.

dxhound2005

Finland is in a different time zone to Sweden and Norway, with which it has borders.

US3

Why are people so against the current system? This day an age most clocks change themselves, what's the big deal? School morning rush hour in the darkness no thanks

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392237#Comment_120392237

The rest of the EU doesn't have a common timezone though.

A significant point which has been mentioned is that you may have daylight when you want to drive/cycle/walk to work but the roads/paths may well still be covered in frost because the sun came up an hour later.

I don't mind switching between summer and winter time but we enter winter time too early and we leave it far too late.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120391709#Comment_120391709

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

eire4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392481#Comment_120392481

Personally I want more light later in the day when it is more useful and it keeps things a bit warmer longer.

Stark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392444#Comment_120392444

Not to mention big countries like the US which have different time zones within the same country.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393550#Comment_120393550

And individual states like Kentucky, not much bigger than the island of Ireland, which have more than one time zone.

Eastern Time is in effect in about 60% of Kentucky; the rest in the west observes Central Time.

Strumms

Let them recommend it.

Then we mull it over. Then … “dear EU, we have given your proposal the upmost consideration and respect. However for reasons too numerous and multifaceted to impart at this juncture, we shall be keeping ourselves aligned to this current time standard, up Monaghan! ”

New Home

Apologies, folks, that was supposed to be for YLYL, I clicked on the wrong link.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392237#Comment_120392237

It is complete nonsense to ignore geography and harmonise things for the sake of harmonising them. What next, will be be driving on the right? Joining Schengen?

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393667#Comment_120393667

It's just not as simple as that. If the rest of the EU chose to scrap DST and we decided not to, then we would be causing ourselves unnecessary problems in areas like shipping, airlines, warehousing, general logistics.

Ireland is always an hour behind CET, which gives consistency. If we moved an hour back in October as currently, but the rest of the EU didn't then we'd be two hours behind. Therefore the ship which is expected in Rotterdam at 9am would have to leave an hour earlier. The first DUB->CDG flight of the day gets in just after 9.15am so the businessperson can be in downtown Paris at 10.00am. Do you envisage it arriving an hour later (useless, and may not even be an available landing slot in CDG) or does it have to take off an hour earlier. If all the airport staff and crew (and all the ancillary industries which support them) have to start an hour earlier then what would we have gained by pretending we are sticking to 'our' time?

Quantum Erasure

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-65079574

People in Lebanon have woken up in two rival time zones, amid a row between political and religious authorities over when clocks should go forward.

Caretaker Prime Minister Najib Mikati announced that daylight saving would begin at the end of Ramadan next month, allowing Muslims to break their daily fast earlier.

But Christian authorities said they would change the clocks on the last Sunday in March, as happens most years