EU to recommend abolishing DST

False Prophet

False Prophet wrote: »

Sorry, but there are reasons
(1) Northern Ireland having a different timezone will not go down well for one side and the other side will see it as victory in keeping Ireland divided
(2) England having a different time when its a main trading partner
(3) We are part of the EU, it doesn't make economic sense for us to go on a solo run and change the clocks at different times then the rest of our EU colleagues esp the likes of Germany/France.

Not an issue if the other countries you mentioned did the same.

NoBread

False Prophet wrote: »

Sorry, but there are reasons
(1) Northern Ireland having a different timezone will not go down well for one side and the other side will see it as victory in keeping Ireland divided
(2) England having a different time when its a main trading partner
(3) We are part of the EU, it doesn't make economic sense for us to go on a solo run and change the clocks at different times then the rest of our EU colleagues esp the likes of Germany/France.

I don't think anyone has an issue adding or subtracting 1 from a time. It doesn't affect trading at all.

Hotblack Desiato

What affects trade is not having a fixed time difference otherwise all of the EU would be on the same time :rolleyes: it's having a time difference that varies at different times of the year due to clocks changing on different dates or not changing at all. Like we currently have with the EU and US having different dates for changing clocks.

I really don't know why so many people seem to find the whole concept of time zones and changing clocks so difficult to understand. Some genuinely seem to believe we can have more daylight in winter by changing the number on a clock!

Also many countries have different time zones within a country. They cope.

Nqp15hhu

False Prophet wrote: »

Sorry, but there are reasons
(1) Northern Ireland having a different timezone will not go down well for one side and the other side will see it as victory in keeping Ireland divided
(2) England having a different time when its a main trading partner
(3) We are part of the EU, it doesn't make economic sense for us to go on a solo run and change the clocks at different times then the rest of our EU colleagues esp the likes of Germany/France.

That poster does have a point though. Why do we wait until the end of March to put the clocks forward? The sunrise is before 8am throughout the month, there is no need to stay on winter time through March.

highdef

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I really don't know why so many people seem to find the whole concept of time zones and changing clocks so difficult to understand. Some genuinely seem to believe we can have more daylight in winter by changing the number on a clock!

I would imagine that there are a few people who believe that but what most people would most likely mean regarding your statement that we can have more daylight in winter by changing the number on a clock actually means more USABLE daylight.
At the beginning of March, the sun set a little after 18:00 (in the east). On a standard working day, that doesn't really give me enough time to do any outdoorsy things when I finish my work at around 17:30. If the sun were to set a little after 19:00 instead, then I would have enough time for a decent amount of outdoor activities. So as far as I would be concerned, I would have more daylight available to me on any given day.

This all also assumes that I am working from home. Add in a commute from Dublin to home (about 40km west of Dublin city) and it would be post sunset when I get home from Dublin in early March meaning no daylight that I can use. The extra hour would make a MASSIVE difference in the quality of my life.

dxhound2005

highdef wrote: »

I would imagine that there are a few people who believe that but what most people would most likely mean regarding your statement that we can have more daylight in winter by changing the number on a clock actually means more USABLE daylight.
At the beginning of March, the sun set a little after 18:00 (in the east). On a standard working day, that doesn't really give me enough time to do any outdoorsy things when I finish my work at around 17:30. If the sun were to set a little after 19:00 instead, then I would have enough time for a decent amount of outdoor activities. So as far as I would be concerned, I would have more daylight available to me on any given day.

A lot of people seem to assume that their work schedule is what should determine the clock changes. They ignore the 24 hour economy, and the large number of stay at home people.

Mullaghteelin

dxhound2005 wrote: »

A lot of people seem to assume that their work schedule is what should determine the clock changes. They ignore the 24 hour economy, and the large number of stay at home people.

What outdoor activities are so dependent on daylight, as opposed to being dependent on good weather?
The dark winter evenings do not stop people getting outdoors walking jogging etc around here. We have modern new fangled things called streetlights. Even after the hour changes there will be walkers and joggers out at 10pm or later, unhindered by the darkness.
The weather has a far bigger impact on whether people are outdoors or not.

spaceHopper

No I like it, if you get rid of it in winter I'll be walking the kids to school in the dark and finishing work in the dark. At least this way we get bright mornings in winter and bright evenings in summer it's a good compromise.

highdef

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

What outdoor activities are so dependent on daylight, as opposed to being dependent on good weather?
The dark winter evenings do not stop people getting outdoors walking jogging etc around here. We have modern new fangled things called streetlights. Even after the hour changes there will be walkers and joggers out at 10pm or later, unhindered by the darkness.
The weather has a far bigger impact on whether people are outdoors or not.

Apart from the immediate vicinity of my house, there are zero streetlights and no footpaths. Roads are very narrow, often not much more than a car and a half in width and this is shared with pedestrians so it really helps if there is daylight present. The weather has almost no bearing on whether or not I go walking. The dog gets walked at least three times a day, no matter what the weather.....mid morning or lunchtime, after work and a short while before bedtime. It's always bright for the first walk but the second walk is in darkness for a few months of the year and also coincides with busier than usual traffic with people returning home from work/going shopping etc so having that walk in daylight is very beneficial when sharing the road with vehicles especially as the weather is often very poor/foggy/etc.

And I absolutely those late evening walks in June/July when it's heading for 10pm and the local roads are nice and quiet but it's still fully daylight......ah bliss

I also like to do a lot of gardening which is great for physical and mental wellbeing but gardening in the dark is not really possible.

Hotblack Desiato

highdef wrote: »

At the beginning of March, the sun set a little after 18:00 (in the east). On a standard working day, that doesn't really give me enough time to do any outdoorsy things when I finish my work at around 17:30. If the sun were to set a little after 19:00 instead, then I would have enough time for a decent amount of outdoor activities. So as far as I would be concerned, I would have more daylight available to me on any given day.

Oh yeah sure, it doesn't really matter what we do in December or January, most people will be both getting up in the dark and leaving work in the dark anyway, so it makes little enough difference. Given our mild climate we forget how far north we actually are. Dublin is ten degrees further north than Toronto!

Going into winter time a bit later and going into summer time a good bit sooner would make a big difference imho to the usable daylight for a lot of people - no point being still stuck on winter time in March when the sun is rising early enough to afford to be able to put back an hour. This would make a big difference to people to be able to do activities after work/school and imho improve physical and mental health.

highdef wrote: »

I also like to do a lot of gardening which is great for physical and mental wellbeing but gardening in the dark is not really possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRvA4TFLlEk

VinLieger

spaceHopper wrote: »

No I like it, if you get rid of it in winter I'll be walking the kids to school in the dark and finishing work in the dark. At least this way we get bright mornings in winter and bright evenings in summer it's a good compromise.

But its not a good compromise for a multitude of reasons which is why its being done away with.

Quantum Erasure

dxhound2005 wrote: »

A lot of people seem to assume that their work schedule is what should determine the clock changes. They ignore the 24 hour economy, and the large number of stay at home people.

And what does time matter to them?

Quackster

VinLieger wrote: »

But its not a good compromise for a multitude of reasons which is why its being done away with.

Except it's not being done away with.

eire4

Quackster wrote: »

Except it's not being done away with.

Not yet true but the trend is in that direction going by public opinion.

Quackster

eire4 wrote: »

Not yet true but the trend is in that direction going by public opinion.

It has nothing to do with public opinion. Irish public opinion is overwhelmingly in favour of obolition of DST yet the Irish Government position is to oppose the change.

The draft directive is currently stuck in limbo, still awaiting European Council's first reading position. While Parliament is supportive, there ultimately has to be unanimous support at Council for it to pass. That is not going to happen. Since the change in Commission, there has been nobody in Brussels championing it.

https://oeil.secure.europarl.europa.eu/oeil/popups/ficheprocedure.do?reference=2018/0332(COD)&l=en

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

A lot of people seem to assume that their work schedule is what should determine the clock changes. They ignore the 24 hour economy, and the large number of stay at home people.

9-5/6 are still the most common working hours. Anyway people who work later shifts or night shifts don’t see the sun after work for most of the year anyway.

Mullaghteelin

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

What outdoor activities are so dependent on daylight, as opposed to being dependent on good weather?
The dark winter evenings do not stop people getting outdoors walking jogging etc around here. We have modern new fangled things called streetlights. Even after the hour changes there will be walkers and joggers out at 10pm or later, unhindered by the darkness.
The weather has a far bigger impact on whether people are outdoors or not.

Yeh? How many outdoor games of soccer, tennis, tag rugby, or rounders are played in the dark? How many people visit tourist areas at night? Not the brightest argument.

Not sure why anybody would want darkness in the evening to continue longer than necessary. Today the sun set at 6:40 and it’s cloudy out so it’s getting dark at 6:45.

By April 1st, just ten days, the sun sets at 8pm. That’s a whole new world.

dxhound2005

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeh? How many outdoor games of soccer, tennis, tag rugby, or rounders are played in the dark? How many people visit tourist areas at night? Not the brightest argument.

Not sure why anybody would want darkness in the evening to continue longer than necessary. Today the sun set at 6:40 and it’s cloudy out so it’s getting dark at 6:45.

By April 1st, just ten days, the sun sets at 8pm. That’s a whole new world.

I would be happy with that clock all year round. And equally happy with the one in place today. Just so long as we do away with changing the clock and settle on something permanent. But it is hardly a whole new world for someone working till 6 o'clock who then has to spend over an hour getting home.

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I would be happy with that clock all year round. And equally happy with the one in place today. Just so long as we do away with changing the clock and settle on something permanent.

I really don’t get the angst about clock changing.

But it is hardly a whole new world for someone working till 6 o'clock who then has to spend over an hour getting home.

That’s me, at least in bad traffic and precovid. When the hour goes forward is when I get to arse around in the garden after work. Or have a beer outside, or kick a ball around or whatever. When it gets to 9pm I can go hiking....

Quackster

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I really don’t get the angst about clock changing.

Neither can I. I can only surmise that these people must never travel outside this time zone for holidays or any other reason.

RobertKK

Most countries in the world don't do all this clock changing rubbish.

Fr Tod Umptious

RobertKK wrote: »

Most countries in the world don't do all this clock changing rubbish.

But how many countries at a latitude like Ireland's, (where there is a big difference in daylight between mid winter and mid summer) do ?

dxhound2005

Apart from Europe mostly the USA and Canada. Not Russia. And there are moves in Canada for more provinces to go on an all year round clock. The whole thing is a hangover from World War 1, and if it was abolished nobody would dream of bringing it back in ten years time. Just like smoking in pubs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_by_country

redoctober

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Oh yeah sure, it doesn't really matter what we do in December or January, most people will be both getting up in the dark and leaving work in the dark anyway, so it makes little enough difference. Given our mild climate we forget how far north we actually are. Dublin is ten degrees further north than Toronto!

Going into winter time a bit later and going into summer time a good bit sooner would make a big difference imho to the usable daylight for a lot of people - no point being still stuck on winter time in March when the sun is rising early enough to afford to be able to put back an hour. This would make a big difference to people to be able to do activities after work/school and imho improve physical and mental health.

I've always wondered why we can't change back earlier in the year. From the end of October to the solstice is just less than 2 months but from the solstice to end of March is 3 months. Doesn't make sense as you say when we could have the benefit of that extra hour after work.

dxhound2005

Quackster wrote: »

Neither can I. I can only surmise that these people must never travel outside this time zone for holidays or any other reason.

It obviously wouldn't bother you then if the EU were on permanent time zones, and the UK kept changing every six months.

Nqp15hhu

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Apart from Europe mostly the USA and Canada. Not Russia. And there are moves in Canada for more provinces to go on an all year round clock. The whole thing is a hangover from World War 1, and if it was abolished nobody would dream of bringing it back in ten years time. Just like smoking in pubs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_by_country

Except it does work for our latitude.

eire4

Quackster wrote: »

It has nothing to do with public opinion. Irish public opinion is overwhelmingly in favour of obolition of DST yet the Irish Government position is to oppose the change.

The draft directive is currently stuck in limbo, still awaiting European Council's first reading position. While Parliament is supportive, there ultimately has to be unanimous support at Council for it to pass. That is not going to happen. Since the change in Commission, there has been nobody in Brussels championing it.

https://oeil.secure.europarl.europa.eu/oeil/popups/ficheprocedure.do?reference=2018/0332(COD)&l=en

True that there is strong support for abolishing the clock changing and that the current government is opposed to that. But it is fair to say this current government will not be around for ever and the trends both in Ireland and in the few other countries that still use this unnecessary clock changing are also seeing the same trends. IMHO it is more a question of when the clock changing is done away with not if.

Tyrone212

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Except it does work for our latitude.

I don't know why you care so much about whether ROI changes their time or not. Limavady won't be affected, you think its all a conspiracy to hurt the UK by the EU anyway. Victimhood mentality.

Quackster

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It obviously wouldn't bother you then if the EU were on permanent time zones, and the UK kept changing every six months.

I don't want the EU to abolish DST so that doesn't make much sense..??

Quackster

eire4 wrote: »

True that there is strong support for abolishing the clock changing and that the current government is opposed to that. But it is fair to say this current government will not be around for ever and the trends both in Ireland and in the few other countries that still use this unnecessary clock changing are also seeing the same trends. IMHO it is more a question of when the clock changing is done away with not if.

As long as the UK doesn't change, any Irish government will be opposed to change for political reasons.

So unless the UK were to unilaterally abolish DST, things will stay as they are.