EU to recommend abolishing DST

dxhound2005

The European Parliament have already passed draft legislation to enact the permanent time zones. But unless all EU member governments agree, it cannot be implemented anywhere. It was a long drawn out process to get every country on to the same dates for the current clock changes, and no derogations were ever agreed. I think it is all or nothing, and if the majority sentiment in Ireland is to stay with whatever the UK want, then that will be the end of the project. Unless the UK decide to end clock changes as well. Of course even then we could still be in different time zones, if they chose a permanent one different to what we choose.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/A-8-2019-0169_EN.html

It would be a shame if it was the UK that kept the project from being adopted in the EU. People in Ireland both sides of the border would quickly get used to the idea of having a neighbour with a different time. Just as people in Spain, Portugal, Sweden and Finland have done, among many others. The Finns are smart enough to be able to deal with having Norway and Sweden one hour behind, and on the other side Russia one hour ahead. If they can do it with such long borders, I think we could manage it. Our border is 500 km.

"The total length of land borders (incl. rivers) of Finland is 2,563 km / 1593 mi (Norway 709 km / 441 mi, Sweden 545 km / 339 mi, Russia 1309 km / 813 mi)."

(The time zone in Russia bordering Finland is one hour ahead from November to March. But because Russia do not change their clocks since 2010, the Finns have got used to that changing every six months. Ireland could do the same if the UK kept changing and we went permanent).

Glaceon

I wouldn't even say that the UK is the problem. Specifically, Northern Ireland is the problem. As with everything NI-related, nothing is ever easy. It's not a problem in Spain/Portugal or Sweden/Finland/Russia because their borders aren't disputed.

buried

The problem is a lot of Irish people are addicted to watching all manner of British based and produced TRASH on the television. These people cant be dealing with a one hour difference concerning what time Liverpool FC are playing the Manchester Coronation Street, too confusing

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119825953#Comment_119825953

Finland fought a war with Russia since our border was estabished. And the Finns are still looking for their lost territory back.

Hotblack Desiato

There's a border dispute between Spain and Portugal, too...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivenza#Claims_of_sovereignty

eire4

No reason for our decision to be made with reference to what the UK does or does not do IMHO. Personally I want to see us get rid of the clock changes and would vote accordingly if that ever came to a vote but regardless of what we do it should be made on the basis of our needs and our position as a member of the EU, what the UK does matters not a jot IMHO.

highdef

Was just looking at a town called A Coruna in northwestern Spain. At the end of June, sunset is as late as 22:18 with the earliest sunrises not too long before 07:00, with solar noon occurring after 14:30 - Sounds perfect from my POV!

It's latest sunrise occurs at the end December when it is a little after 09:00. The earliest sunsets occur early/mid-month with sunsets just before 18:00. Solar noon is around 13:30.........I could most certainly live with that!

ArmaniJeanss

Spain is pleasant alright, sunset at 18:00 in Malaga even when you go in December.

However, I think it's pretty much acknowledged that the entire country is in the wrong time zone. They moved during WW2 as a sign of alliance with Germany and have never moved back. In truth they should be in the same zone as Portugal/UK. There have been intermittent campaigns to correct the issue amid claims that it affects worker productivity, but that is difficult to prove I guess.

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382386#Comment_120382386

I'd say it's wrong in the sense that solar noon occurs so late with regards to actual noon on a clock but I don't see any other real wrongness to it otherwise. I would hazard a guess and say that the long evenings, not unlike those experienced in Great Britain and Ireland in the summer are a major draw for those people to holiday in Spain. I for one am one of those people and I doubt I'm alone. A lot of ex-Pats from the same countries also reside in Spain all year round, the longer evenings in the winter months are no doubt very appreciated with sunsets after 18:00 in Malaga during the very shortest days and in summer, sunsets after 21:30 right through June with sunsets before 21:00 not occurring until late August. Bliss 😎

Flying to Malaga at the end of May, all of a sudden I've just become extra wanting to go to Spain on holiday 😋

ILoveYourVibes

woo hoo

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382473#Comment_120382473

Yeah, I'm happy they stay where/when they are for the reasons you say.

Here's an article about various campaigns about returning to the pre WW2 zone. Article is 10 years old so clearly all the references to 'government considering it' went nowhere.

Spain Has Been In The 'Wrong' Time Zone For 7 Decades : Parallels : NPR

dxhound2005

It must be a nightmare for people who have to cross the Spain Portugal border regularly. Irish/British people apparently could not live with two time zones on this island.

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382619#Comment_120382619

Well if Spain moved forwards an hour, then the "nightmare" would simply move to the Spain/France/Andorra borders instead and I'd argue that more people travel between Spain to/from Andorra and France than between Spain and Portugal.......that's very much subject to clarification with facts, of course.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382656#Comment_120382656

In fairness dxhound was being somewhat tongue in cheek. Clearly where-ever there is a line that splits by an hour there is going to be inconvenience and 'its only 500 metres away, how is it an hour difference, what a nightmare' comments. Whereas actually it's a trivial thing which people get used to and adapt to almost instantly.

Unfortunately, the idea that us and GB/NI having a different time-zone would make day-to-day living completely impossible appears to have taken hold, and it seems unlikely that opinion can be shifted. Different currency, measuring systems, political systems, legal systems = OK. Different time-zone is a crisis.

dxhound2005

We are unlucky also to have immigrants and not ex-pats.

Quackster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382684#Comment_120382684

And even more unlucky to have ignorant xenophobes. Although I'm not sure what all that has to do with DST..??

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382676#Comment_120382676

Well….what time is Eastenders/Strictly Come Dancing/Graham Norton/Liverpool vs Arsenal/the 3pm at Goodwood at exactly? Our lives day to day are inextricably linked with theirs, wether we like that or not.

They recognise that with no problem. It was so obvious during the covid crisis in particular. For them, people coming from Ireland to say, Gatwick airport were treated no differently in Gatwick to people who’d flown down from say Newcastle as regards testing and covid certs.

As regards Brexit, people from Ireland are the only EU nationality for whom the new Brexit rules don’t apply at all.

TooTired123

There’s constant coming and going and tooing and froing between here and GB with no restrictions. Why do we want to complicate that with 2 time zones? What advantage is that o us?

Mantis Toboggan

When does the self imposed darkness end?

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382956#Comment_120382956

Long term ex-pats from Ireland may remember when Spain and other EU countries changed their clocks on different dates to Ireland. We got them all to come on board with our dates, in the latest EU agreement. No such luck with the Yanks, they are sticking to their own dates. New York is 4 hours difference at present, it is 5 hours for much of the year.

DST knowledge can be of importance both to the emigrants and their contacts or business partners at home.

Quackster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383193#Comment_120383193

The Yanks have the sense to give themselves an extra month of summertime so they'd be mad to align themselves to the EU on this.

In an era where we all have computers in our pockets that keep track of all timezones and timeshifts, the issues that arise in living/working across multiple timezones are being massively overstated.

dxhound2005

The US legislators, like the EU Parliament, have had the good sense to vote out the clock changing nonsense. But getting their stick in the mud citizens to follow suit will be a long process. Fair play to the Russians for doing it years ago.

WASHINGTON, March 15, 2022 (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate on Tuesday passed legislation that would make daylight saving time permanent starting in 2023, ending the twice-annual changing of clocks in a move promoted by supporters advocating brighter afternoons and more economic activity.

The Senate approved the measure, called the Sunshine Protection Act, unanimously by voice vote. The House of Representatives, which has held a committee hearing on the matter, must still pass the bill before it can go to President Joe Biden to sign.

Quackster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383501#Comment_120383501

Just the US Senate. No certainty it'll successfully pass into law.

DST might be nonsense in your head but I'd certainly prefer the status quo rather than having perpetual wintertime on the one hand or very dark December/January mornings here in the Southwest on the other. A shortened period of wintertime would be the best in my opinion. But that's only my own opinion...

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383580#Comment_120383580

If clock changing was done away with, people would get used to it. And any move to bring it back in a few years would be very unpopular. It has to be an EU wide decision, so there are people living with more extremes of dark and light than we are in Ireland.

eire4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383501#Comment_120383501

Well I hope it passes the house over there and gets put into law. Maybe that will push the EU to act as well and make the clock changing a thing of the past and leave us on summer time permanently.

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120388372#Comment_120388372

And just to be clear, the official name for "Summer time" in Ireland is "Standard Time". This is legally binding and is described as such in the Irish Statute Book.

Ireland therefore operates one hour behind standard time during the winter period, and reverts to standard time in the summer months. This contrasts with other EU countries and the UK which operate one hour ahead of standard time during the summer period.

dxhound2005

The BBC World Service (radio) operates on GMT / UTC all year round. So people living in places where the clocks change, will notice the programmes being at different times.

It's time we got on board with the majority of the world and did away with the clock changing.

40%

Less than 40% of the countries in the world use DST today. Since daylength variations are negligible around the equator, most tropical territories do not change their clocks. *

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120388712#Comment_120388712

So would you have preference for Irish Standard Time or Winter Time all year round?

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120388760#Comment_120388760

Whatever the decision is, fine by me. Just stop the clock changing.

Edit: Every EU country chooses its own time zone at present, and that will continue after clock changing stops, if it does happen. We can be three hours ahead of England, or three hours behind if we want. It is not dictated by "Brussels".

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120388760#Comment_120388760

All year winter time is a bad idea.

It means that it would get bright at a ridiculously early hour during the summer, 3 or 4am, but be dark around 9pm.

The light that early in the morning is of value to nobody, but the darkness that early in the evening would be a hindrance to many.

Leave thighs as they are, i.e changing the clocks, our location on the planet means that changing clocks is the best way to provide morning light in the winter and long evenings in the summer.

The only change I'd make is make the duration between winter and summer time shorter, put the clocks forward in February rather than March.

But we can't do that because of....the feckin EU.