Nvidia RTX Discussion

Lumen

I have previously rationalised GPU costs based on massive dies and transistor counts, but I thought I'd revisit this.

Interesting to compare transistor counts and Nvidia GPU Vs MacBook Air prices from 2014 to now, as Apple has always had healthy margins for a premium product.

Now this may seem a slightly odd comparison, but a "GPU" is really more like a laptop than a CPU, as it's got a whole board, RAM and cooling, with an external power supply.

In 2014

MBA: 1.6bn transistors, $1000.

GTX 980: 5.2bn transistors, $550.

GPU:CPU transistors: 3.25x

In 2022

MBA: 16bn transistors, $1200.

RTX 4080: 46bn transistors, $1200.

GPU:CPU transistors: 2.9x

So it's not the case that GPUs have grown more than CPUs.

Throughout this 8 year period Apple's net margins have remained steady, whilst NVidias have roughly doubled, and in the same period the $399 PS4 became the $499 PS5.

Sony and Apple both have non-commodity premium products with healthy margins.

The 4080 ought to cost somewhere in the region of $650-700.

And you probably won't be able to buy a 4080 at MSRP.

It's amazing that PC gaming isn't totally dead.

_CreeD_

So, entire system vs one component? It's like that utterly shite graph Apple had of the M1 vs Nvidia 3x that had apparently a metric of mystery graphics stuff that was 2.8 x. That didn't mean a thing under analysis or real world. Don't get me wrong, for dev/prof work the M1/M2 is awesome but you cannot compare them to an X64 GPU on it's own. Besides being owned in an apples-2-apples (pun intended) comparison that comparison makes no sense.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747075#Comment_119747075

There is no perfect comparison, I'm simply showing that other items of premium consumer electronics have vastly increased in performance and complexity over the past 8 years without doubling in price.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747054#Comment_119747054

Mainstream PC gaming is not dead because it's not only less expensive than console gaming in the long run, you algo get a PC that can be used for other things. And midrange to high end PC gaming is not dead because it's a much better experience, so the money is well worth it - as much as we had people paying the equivalent of 2 PS5s on midrange GPUs like 3070 just a few shorth months ago.

Mucashinto

Pretty interesting video on DLSS 3 imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkUAGMYg5Lw

Guess I'll have to wait to see what this is like in the real world but I instinctively don't like the idea of this (it feels like something that PC users would have mocked console users for tbh).

People don't want high refresh rates because 'bigger==better', it's because reducing latency is a great target and that's what a higher framerate does. This just muddies the water imo. Like I can see if it was giving you a bump in resolution, then you could reasonably expect some additional latency , but when your FPS goes up but your latency also does...that's just weird. Defeats the whole purpose surely?

Kirby

Yes and no. The amount of people who can tell the difference between 5ms and 25ms latency is astronomically tiny. For most of the people who "can tell" it's actually placebo. They've done blind tests to prove this.

So, for frame perfect games like competitive shooters and fighting games? You need it. For everything else be it single-player or casual multiplayer which makes up like 99% of everything else.....it's a big improvement.

The big issue with it at the moment is how it doesn't play well with dynamic floating text but that will be fixed in time.

Headshot

So I really can't get over this GPU.

The power it has but at the same time the temps and quietness is unmatched

For how beefy this card is you'd expect some sacrifice on temps and noise but nope.

Mucashinto

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754484#Comment_119754484

Yeah, I'll see what it works like in real use but I hate, hate latency. It's annoying saying it cause it sounds like 'I'm a super gamer' or something (far more likely to be the opposite in my case) but I notice it badly. Screen-tearing I don't tend to notice on the other hand.

I don't think it's a number thing tbh, there's either noticeable latency or there isn't for me. So while an extra 10-25ms on its own might not be noticeable, when added to the total throughout the system it can push it over the edge for me. I have a retro system where there's a filter that adds 1 frame of lag. No way I can feel 1 frame obviously, yet when I switch it on I go from feeling no lag to some lag. I leave it off. I have the same with my Steam Deck, however it implements its frame-cap makes a game like Super Meat Boy horrible to play with it on for me. I noticed it had turned itself on again (it keeps doing that for some reason) within a minute of playing last night.

The big draw for me with PC gaming has always been lower input lag/latency (Tvs obviously a big factor in this and I'm not sure how much OLEDs have improved this) and I could judge that by FPS before. Not sure how to gauge it now with something like this. Like if you can have 60fps at xx latency or 120fps at the same latency, would it end up feeling better/smoother/more responsive at the lower frame rate (the additional frames actually doubling the impact of each latency penalty)?.

Could be nothing of course when it's out in the wild, and you don't have to use it of course!, but native hardware is always preferable as a rule anyway surely. These are big powerful cards, ideally software would be kept at a minimum imo.

K.O.Kiki

https://youtu.be/M_Jp68UuMzM

Compared to a 3080 here.

2kliksphilip notes that with DLSS3 he got a lot of mouse smoothing which felt off.

frozenfrozen

I've got an MSI Suprim X ordered now but it won't be shipping for 10 days

Mr Crispy

Might be useful to some of you when it's eventually released.

https://videocardz.com/newz/cablemod-unveils-90-degree-angle-12vhpwr-power-adapter-for-geforce-rtx-40-gpus

Cordell

As a result, many new RTX 4090 owners were forced to use their cards without side panels until a solution was found.

That's one of the most 1st world problems that there can be :)

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756070#Comment_119756070

Where did you order it from?

frozenfrozen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756534#Comment_119756534

paradigit / komplett but they don't have them listed yet. €1912+vat+ post of €3 or so. They're probably waiting until they arrive to list them on the website

Kirby

Mine arrived today. As headshot said, it's massive, it's insanely fast and it is quiet.

It fits in my case with no issue, but I have a fractal which is larger than most so if you plan to get one, get out a measuring tape and make sure it will fit before you pull the trigger.

You need a sag bracket. It's simply too long and heavy to use it without one. The one that came with mine is pretty but it's too long for my liking, so I've ordered a much smaller one.

Coming from a 1080, the performance is simply hilarious. It'll take some getting used to....

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119758960#Comment_119758960

Where did you end up purchasing yours from? Founders Edition or did you go with an AIB model?

Kirby

It's next to impossible to get a founders in europe....at least from what I've seen anyway.

Gaming x Trio from Caseking. Nvidia were releasing their Founders cards at exactly 2pm on launch so i took a chance and figured some of the websites would do the same. Was lucky that caseking did and got it a minute after launch.

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119761571#Comment_119761571

Yeah and even harder to get one delivered to Ireland! I've been keeping an eye on Caseking, you must have been quick off the mark - there hasn't been any stock for a few days now. There's little to no stock in any of the retailers as far as I can see.

Headshot

Glowing review of the MSI GeForce RTX 4090 SUPRIM X

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/10225/msi-geforce-rtx-4090-suprim/index.html

Kirby

You run your through some benchmarks yet? I made 3d mark weep before me. Being within the top percent of all pc's in scores in a new experience for me.

Now I can play solitaire with 900 fps!

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764627#Comment_119764627

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/81336605?

Tested using Time Spy Extreme

Headshot

never mind

Can't even delete post, god Boards is still shite

Kirby

I gave that one a run. Identical GPU score. I remember running time spy extreme on a 1080 back in the day. It was choppy. Not anymore! Your CPU is nicer than mine though so that made the difference with overall.

You should give the port royal benchmark a go. It's great for the 30 and 40 series because it has a ton of ray tracing.

Overheal

Critical failures on the 4090 design. Avoid

https://twitter.com/JayzTwoCents/status/1586027561800171520?s=20&t=dmqN0uM5h6NTgaUE0xpsHw

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119805298#Comment_119805298

The issue is the build of the nvidia supplied cables. It's not an issue with the 4090 itself, or the third party cables. The nvidia bundled ones were bottom of the barrel stuff. If you do get a 4090, don't use the nvidia adapter, and find another.

Headshot

So I presume if you have AIB card you're not affected?

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119805501#Comment_119805501

No, AIB cards are affected.

Cuddlesworth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119805516#Comment_119805516

Some are because they used the Nvidia adaptors, some made their own adapters. The general consensus is that the Nvidia adaptor at the new connector can't take any sustained horizontal load. But since its a manufacturing error, its not every adapter with the problem. Just the ones with less tolerance on the plastic to pin distance.

frozenfrozen

I'm just going to be careful to not bend the connector

Sierra Oscar

There is difficulty recreating the issue, there's a suggestion it could be an issue with a specific batch of adapters or that people aren't fully inserting the cable. Although people are still finding it difficult to re-create the issue with adapters that haven't been inserted correctly.