Dairy Chitchat 3

Mooooo

With the green fields it was about converting a tillage farm to dairy in a partnership scenario. Off the bat it has/ had issues with om, so a straight disadvantage there especially in this summer's conditions. To have the weather we've had this past 12 months is rare, fair enough we can say climate is changing but 1 year doesn't make a trend for us yet, and the last events also happened 30 odd years ago. Of course we must plan for when weather throws a curve ball but there weren't many not caught this year by it. I see in a map of Europe near on all northern Europe has been effected with lower yields yet Spain and and parts of southern Europe have had higher than normal growth.

I don't think it matters weather you buy in feed or not what needs to be looked at is stocking rate including bought in feed. For example I've bought 6.7 ha of maize, say an average year it may do 14tn of dm/ ha. If I grow 14tn of grass per ha it is the equivalent of that 6.7 ha of grass without getting into forage analysis etc. That would bring my sr at my target numbers to 2.55 / ha over the whole farm + maize. That's youngstock cows the lot. I need to figure out if that is sustainable or can it be raised to improve output while being able to cope with a year like this. Obviously ration bought and all that should be included as well but ye get my drift.

Buford T. Justice XIX

kevthegaff wrote: »

Had a lad from laois who was from a big dairy farm before, found him very good. Can't even remember his name, was on Donedeal. Anyway anyone doing the milk recording pregnancy test

Scanning here in 2 weeks, kev, so I'll not be using it. I find the scanning good for pointing out cows with twins so they can get special care once dry which is a huge disadvantage from my perspective in the milk recording testing.


That and getting the date of calving versus yes/no.

blackdog1

yewtree wrote:

It takes 6 tonne to feed a cow for the year, I can't see any justification for carrying that level of feed. Silage is expensive there are losses at ensiling and feeding out. What is achieved by carrying that level of feed. Will no grass grow at all next year. Nobody ever said it would produce milk for sub 25 cent. Do you have a link to an article where that was stated? The farm has constantly highlighted the true cost of production which in farms carrying debt is over 30 cent. In that regard it has done us a great service.

If he has maize he can feed it all summer and pump milk while also increasing his stocking rate. Having good fodder in the pit just gives you so many options... You're never really afraid to take out paddocks. Supplementing cows with forage all year would give fabulous results. Just the extra work would be a pain in the ass.

Gawddawggonnit

The Irish/Teagasc grass based system is fundamentally flawed.
Fact.
You can’t keep running a system/industry that keeps reeling from crisis to crisis like drunks at a stag party.

Greenfields has demonstrated this quite admirably, and if nothing is learned from it other than the unsustainability of the system, then it was well worthwhile.
Brilliant time right now to sit and have an adult discussion about what can be learned, and the way(s) forward.

Headlines for discussion;

Future proof of fodder.
Slurry storage.
Pollution.
Climate obligations/fines.


There are probably a lot more things to discuss but those four are good place to start....like, of the estimated €5/600 million fines coming down the road. Does the polluter pay? That’s a good €200million per annum....buy a lot of fodder with that.

Gawddawggonnit

whelan2 wrote: »

Just scanned there now. About 5 cows not in calf. All heifers and sucklers in calf. Was a bit worried as milk urea was high there for a while. New lad scanning. Wouldn't be rushing to get him again tbh

Snap!
Scanned last week with a new young fellow. Turns out that 37 were inseminated on the same day...sigh.

kowtow

yewtree wrote: »

My point about just in time has to do with waste. When I was in school/college i worked with a silage contrator. It always amazed me how much silage was wasted in yards. Holding a large inventory of silage can lead to a lot of wastage you also need to be able to store it. Most of us don't have unlimited pits and bales won't keep indefinitely.
We all need a reserve but we don't need to be creating a reserve that's expanding every year.
The greenfield need to carry a reserve which they need to build up again. I presume they are learning these lessons.
It seems to me they need to tweak the system but on balance over the lifetime of the project it has worked. There will always be new challenges

I wonder would year old silage be as good a stock for an anaerobic dig ester as fresh silage? A less corrupt approach to micro-generation together with a bit of out-of-the-box thinking and re-invigoration of the small (local) co-operative spirit and some sort of effective buffer system should be possible without any waste at all.

Combine that with on-site NIRS testing of bales and a quality labelling system and there would be a perfectly good incentive for beef farmers etc. to improve land utilisation and produce better bales right now knowing that they would find a decent market for them.

Years like this year could actually improve things in the longer term if only we didn't let our egos get in the way.

whelan2

Apparently teat sealers can't be got. If you use them might be worth sourcing them niw

Panch18

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

So easy to see 10yrs of saving get p1ssed away in a few short months...

I very much admire the work in the Grernfields project, but what feckin good is it if lessons aren’t being learned????

The lesson is there’s no money long term out of cows. Sure you’ll get a wage from it most years, but actually making real money? No way. Make money, lose money. Set up a rainy day fund and then spend it all and some, That’s the way it’s gone now

charolais0153

Panch18 wrote: »

The lesson is there’s no money long term out of cows. Sure you’ll get a wage from it most years, but actually making real money? No way. Make money, lose money. Set up a rainy day fund and then spend it all and some, That’s the way it’s gone now

They pay a wage though to all the employees

Panch18

charolais0153 wrote: »

They pay a wage though to all the employees

The local shopkeeper pays a wage to his employees as well without it being published all over the place like it’s some amazing achievement.

a business wouldn’t last long if it didn’t pay its staff

wrangler

Panch18 wrote: »

The local shopkeeper pays a wage to his employees as well without it being published all over the place like it’s some amazing achievement.

a business wouldn’t last long if it didn’t pay its staff

There's thousand of farms shaken to its roots by this year and they probably won't get a salary either ......no one need wonder at greenfields.
To make changes based on this year would be stupid. Begrudgers will always be waiting in the wings,

Calfscour

Panch18 wrote: »

The lesson is there’s no money long term out of cows. Sure you’ll get a wage from it most years, but actually making real money? No way. Make money, lose money. Set up a rainy day fund and then spend it all and some, That’s the way it’s gone now

+1000 farm if you love it but don't do it to be well off or have a social life!!!!

mahoney_j

Calfscour wrote: »

+1000 farm if you love it but don't do it to be well off or have a social life!!!!

U may not get well off from it but u can and should have a social life and life outside the farm too many lads are married to the stock and land and for what at end of the day

alps

yewtree wrote: »

Their slush fund exist because the business was profitable for 10 years, thereby proving the majority of their decisions were perfectly sound.
This is the 1st year they have got into big trouble with feed, the project is running nearly 10 years. They have the money to pay for it. considering they pay a full labour charge and a land charge and get no sfp they are doing alright. We all need a reserve but cutting a 100 acres more silage than you need every year is idiotic.

Their slush fund exists because unlike any normal business, their principals take no financial reward.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

The Irish/Teagasc grass based system is fundamentally flawed.
Fact.
You can’t keep running a system/industry that keeps reeling from crisis to crisis like drunks at a stag party.

Greenfields has demonstrated this quite admirably, and if nothing is learned from it other than the unsustainability of the system, then it was well worthwhile.
Brilliant time right now to sit and have an adult discussion about what can be learned, and the way(s) forward.

Headlines for discussion;

Future proof of fodder.
Slurry storage.
Pollution.
Climate obligations/fines.


There are probably a lot more things to discuss but those four are good place to start....like, of the estimated €5/600 million fines coming down the road. Does the polluter pay? That’s a good €200million per annum....buy a lot of fodder with that.

Might be worth a read in relation to pasture based dairying efficiency.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959652618325563

Buford T. Justice XIX

This grant to improve energy efficiency might be of interest to some.
https://twitter.com/SEAI_ie/status/1036512874561236992?s=19

kowtow

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Might be worth a read in relation to pasture based dairying efficiency.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959652618325563

Was just reading it now as it happens.

1. Tank storage with crust - does that apply to all non-lagoon tanks (eg. metal slurry stores / outside concrete tank / slatted unit?)

2. What is the uptake of high sugar grasses in Ireland? Are there any on the approved list etc.?

morclc

whelan2 wrote: »

Apparently teat sealers can't be got. If you use them might be worth sourcing them niw

Is there a shortage of them??

Gawddawggonnit

Two of our lads were involved in a collision with a drunk driver last night. Both are battered and bruised but basically ok. One had no safety belt on and got over 30 stitches to his head. The other is bruised and battered.

Rang the equivalent of the FRS last night for two replacements. No bother, but not one in the whole county that’ll milk cows!
There is a lesson to be learned there somewhere...

Gawddawggonnit

kowtow wrote: »

I wonder would year old silage be as good a stock for an anaerobic dig ester as fresh silage? A less corrupt approach to micro-generation together with a bit of out-of-the-box thinking and re-invigoration of the small (local) co-operative spirit and some sort of effective buffer system should be possible without any waste at all.

Combine that with on-site NIRS testing of bales and a quality labelling system and there would be a perfectly good incentive for beef farmers etc. to improve land utilisation and produce better bales right now knowing that they would find a decent market for them.

Years like this year could actually improve things in the longer term if only we didn't let our egos get in the way.

Good idea.
Why not?
The only concern I’d have about a digester is that it usually prices farmers out of the fodder market...

The last sentence is a peach...!

Gawddawggonnit

wrangler wrote: »

To make changes based on this year would be stupid.

It could be argued that changes should be made based on this year...if you’re not learning or adjusting as you go the system is too rigid/inflexible, no?

whelan2

morclc wrote: »

Is there a shortage of them??

Yes

whelan2

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

It could be argued that changes should be made based on this year...if you’re not learning or adjusting as you go the system is too rigid/inflexible, no?

Those of us who were badly affected in 2012/13 made changes.

Gawddawggonnit

jaymla627 wrote: »

I’m beyond help so, have 5 ton dm in the yard of conserved feed per cow as of last week....
Regards running into trouble with feed they have always had to buy in most years to get themselves out of trouble, the only good thing to come out of the place is the fact Glanbia haven’t been able to invest in a farm and produce milk at the sub 25 cent liter level cop that they where alluding to as guaranteed in the infancy of the “project”

Surely there has been many lessons learned from Greenfields?
Is it not a good thing that the fodder situation in the country is perfectly reflected by the project?
Now, without pointing a finger at any individual farmers, the brains that are running it can tweak the fodder supply/availablity in such a way that all farms can have some kind of template going forward?
That’s the whole idea of a project like that?

Gawddawggonnit

whelan2 wrote: »

Those of us who were badly affected in 2012/13 made changes.

There are many that obviously didn’t.

The rule of thumb here on non-irrigated farms is to have one years supply in stock at all times. For irrigated farms it’s 6mts.
The excuses of not having enough concrete for a silage slab doesn’t really stand up especially with TAMS.

Keepgrowing

Worth a read?


https://www.croplife.org.au/media/media-releases/luddites-rejoice-as-european-agriculture-is-consigned-to-the-dark-ages/

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Good idea.
Why not?
The only concern I’d have about a digester is that it usually prices farmers out of the fodder market...

The last sentence is a peach...!

Nimbyism is a big factor along with return on investment down south of the border anyway. Government only seem to want large scale renewables. Another man on here knows much more about it. I think someone was trying to put one up in north cork but a lot of local anger apparently.

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Surely there has been many lessons learned from Greenfields?
Is it not a good thing that the fodder situation in the country is perfectly reflected by the project?
Now, without pointing a finger at any individual farmers, the brains that are running it can tweak the fodder supply/availablity in such a way that all farms can have some kind of template going forward?
That’s the whole idea of a project like that?

I don't think the fodder situation is perfectly reflected by the project. It is probably in the worst affected part of the country 're drought. Most farms don't have their stocking rate also and the number of tillage farms converted woukdnt be huge either id say.
The thing is the most difficult conditions and indeed fodder situations have been caused by rain. It was the rain in 2012 that caused spring 13 fodder issues and it was the rain and bad weather from last August thru to May that caused the fodder issues this year, initially in the West in the spring and in the east during the drought as reserves were either used up or sent west in the spring.
in 12 we had cows housed in July, due to weather had **** silage in the pit and a poor maize crop. No grass then till near may 13. What was learned then here was basically if the cows don't need to graze it grass is either going into a pit or a double wrapped bale. So yes I agree that
Foddder reserves are needed but id say it's a balance in terms of replenishing what the farm needs really. I sold 130 odd bales this spring, if the opposite had happened and rain came instead of drought thru the summer id be the one crying and looking for silage off the lads on dry ground and green fields would have been powering on.

yosemitesam1

kowtow wrote: »

Was just reading it now as it happens.

1. Tank storage with crust - does that apply to all non-lagoon tanks (eg. metal slurry stores / outside concrete tank / slatted unit?)

2. What is the uptake of high sugar grasses in Ireland? Are there any on the approved list etc.?

All the varieties on the recommended list would be high sugars, the big problem is that any reductions it makes in emissions aren't going to make any substantial difference because of the amount of n fertilizer needed

yosemitesam1

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Worth a read?


https://www.croplife.org.au/media/media-releases/luddites-rejoice-as-european-agriculture-is-consigned-to-the-dark-ages/

Think that the scientists are doing a bit too much whinging over this, they don't have the knowledge to do what they're promising from it.